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DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/20/2006 05:47 AM
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DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
Censoring ideas
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | October 18, 2006

DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?

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Sign up for: Globe Headlines e-mail | Breaking News Alerts Careful -- in some places you can be arrested if you give the wrong answer to that question. Under Article 305 of the Turkish Penal Code, for example, those who promote ``recognition of the Armenian genocide" are subject to prosecution, while Article 301 makes the denigration of ``Turkishness" a crime punishable by up to three years in prison. The Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk , winner of the 2006 Nobel Prize for L iterature , is among those who have been charged under Article 301. His offense was to tell a Swiss interviewer that ``30,000 Kurds and a million Armenians were killed in these lands, and nobody but me dares to talk about it."

Yet if acknowledging the Armenian genocide is a crime in Turkey, gainsaying it could soon be a crime in France. Last week the French National Assembly voted to approve a bill under which anyone denying the 1915 genocide could be sentenced to a year's imprisonment and a 45,000-euro ($56,000) fine. That matches the penalty under French law for denying the Nazi Holocaust .

The French legislation is meant to uphold the truth -- the Armenian genocide, like the Holocaust, is a fact of history -- while the point of the Turkish law is to debase it. Both, however, are intolerable assaults on liberty. Beliefs should not be criminalized, no matter how repugnant or absurd. As I wrote when David Irving was convicted of Holocaust denial in Austria earlier this year, free societies do not throw people in prison for giving offensive speeches or spouting historical lies.

We Americans should know this better than anyone. The right to speak one's mind is supposed to be a core article of our civic faith. Yet the would-be censors are busy here, too.

THE 'SHUT UP' FACTOR: How serious a problem is censorship today? Are would-be censors smothering debate?

At Columbia University two weeks ago, a forum on immigration was to feature a speech by Jim Gilchrist of the Minutemen, a group that monitors the US-Mexico border for illegal immigrants. But moments after Gilchrist began speaking, protesters led by members of the International Socialist Organization stormed the stage, overturning tables, unfurling banners, and yelling insults. After 15 minutes of pandemonium, campus police shut down the program .

In Seattle, two teachers are suing the affluent Lakeside prep school for illegal racial discrimination and the creation of a hostile work environment. ``Among the plaintiffs' complaints," reports the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, ``was Lakeside's invitation to conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza to speak as part of a distinguished lecture series." But D'Souza, a fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institution and a veteran of the Reagan White House, never gave the lecture: Faculty members opposed to his views howled when he was invited, and the school's headmaster, bowing to the censors, rescinded the invitation.

Asked about the campaign against him, D'Souza had said: ``I am coming to speak on one day. If they think what I am saying is so awful, they have the rest of the year to refute it." But that isn't enough for the enemies of free speech. They insist not only that speakers with politically incorrect opinions be shunned, but that anyone offering them a platform be punished as well.

Then there is ``Grist," an environmental webzine whose staff writer David Roberts recently proposed that global warming skeptics be put on trial like Nazi war criminals.

``When we've finally gotten serious about global warming . . . we should have war crimes trials for these bastards -- some sort of climate Nuremberg," Roberts wrote. Negative publicity led him to recant, but he is far from the only one invoking the Holocaust as a way to silence global warming heretics.

Environmental writer Mark Lynas, for example, puts dissent on climate change ``in a similar moral category to Holocaust denial -- except that this time the Holocaust is yet to come, and we still have time to avoid it. Those who try to ensure we don't will one day have to answer for their crimes." This totalitarian view is taking root everywhere, making skepticism on climate change taboo and subjecting anyone reckless enough to question the global-warming dogma to mockery and demonization. Former vice president Al Gore lumps ``global warming deniers," some of whom are eminent scientists, with the ``15 percent of the population (who) believe the moon landing was actually staged in a movie lot in Arizona" and those who ``still believe the earth is flat."

The silencers are at work in the marketplace of ideas, using hook or crook to smother opinions they dislike. The lust to censor is as powerful as ever. If only liberty's defenders were equally vigilant
[link to www.boston.com]
Snake-eyes
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10/20/2006 08:48 PM
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Re: DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
The answer is yes. Just ask any Armenian who lost a great-great grandparent to the expungement.

Hitler himself when asked if he worrried what the world would think about the internement and subsequent treatment of the jews replied in effect that the world, even in his time, had forgotten what the Turks had done to the Armenians, which was an even larger genocide than what the jews suffered.

So if we're going to give the jews their own little country and fiancial backing, and military protection for their "suffering", what do we owe the Armenians?
Anonymous Coward
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10/20/2006 08:49 PM
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Re: DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
Yes, the fact that the Jews and Turks refuse to discuss it and have criminal laws just for mentioning it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
mathetes

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10/20/2006 08:50 PM
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Re: DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
Good post OP, yes they did in answer to the question and it may be what keeps Turkey out of the EU which I believe they will never be allowed to join
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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10/20/2006 09:03 PM
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Re: DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
I know a few Armenians. They are the most delightful, hard working, non-complaining people I have ever met. Compare this to the Jewish attitude:

Quote:
"I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, literature has been unread, music is unheard and prayers are no more answered.

Go ahead, destroy Armenia. See if you can do it. Send them into the desert without bread or water. Burn their homes and churches.

Then see if they will not laugh, sing and pray again. For when two of them meet anywhere in the world, see if they will not create a new Armenia."

William Sarrogan
Mona Lisa
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10/20/2006 09:12 PM
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Re: DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
The Turks call it accidental death during the relocation of the Armenians, the Armenians call it genocide.
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2006 04:39 AM
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Re: DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
Good post OP, yes they did in answer to the question and it may be what keeps Turkey out of the EU which I believe they will never be allowed to join
 Quoting: mathetes


Hey np, i might be called a zionist or whatever, but I just want the truth to be told.
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2006 05:07 AM
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Re: DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
YES, and the Armenians took it like a man and dont cry about it like another race I know of.
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2006 05:26 AM
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Re: DID THE Ottoman Turks commit genocide against the Armenians in 1915?
YES, and the Armenians took it like a man and dont cry about it like another race I know of.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 205


I hope darwin finds you and finds you well.........





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