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| 12:34 AM | ||
| Users Online Now: 1,202 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 33,483 | |
| Pageviews Today: 53,363 | Threads Today: 21 | Posts Today: 331 |
| 12:34 AM | ||
!ALERT! MANUAL SCRAM @ Ind. Point #2 w/10 CONTROL RODS fall loose! | |
| aHEMagain^2
Offer Upgrade  User ID: 63817294  United States12/07/2015 05:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| aHEMagain^2
(OP) User ID: 63817294 United States12/07/2015 05:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OH HOLY FUCK "And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot." -- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org] "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu] |
| aHEMagain^2
(OP) User ID: 63817294 United States12/07/2015 05:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Journal News, Dec 7, 2015: One of Indian Point’s two nuclear reactors will remain shut down for the next couple of days following a power loss on Saturday, a company spokesman said Sunday. Unit 2 was powered down around 5:20 p.m. Saturday by operators after about 10 control rods “dropped” into the reactor core, according to the Nuclear Regulatory Committee… Neel Sheehan, a spokesperson for the NRC, said a preliminary investigation indicated the problem stemmed from a sudden power loss to the mechanism holding the rods. The plant’s control rods, made of materials that can absorb neutrons, are used to control the fissioning of atoms that generate power… Government inspectors visited Indian Point on Saturday and Sunday. “No immediate concerns were identified,” Sheehan said in an e-mail, adding that inspectors would return to the site “to follow up on troubleshooting, repair activities and restart planning.” Gothamist, Dec 6, 2015: In a statement, Gov. Cuomo… said he’s sending a team from the Department of Public Service to investigate the incident and monitor the process of bringing the reactor back online. [link to enenews.com] aHEMagain "And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot." -- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org] "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu] |
| aHEMagain^2
(OP) User ID: 63817294 United States12/07/2015 05:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation |  Pin please. aHEMagain "And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot." -- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org] "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu] |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70815046 United States12/07/2015 05:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 05:51 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Shills jumped on the thread quickly--i"m sure they will here soon. “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 05:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation |  and Pin req Ahem. People are just clueless as to what the danger is here.Last Edited by Bodiless on 12/07/2015 05:52 PM “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| Gelatinous Mass
User ID: 67046660 United States12/07/2015 05:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "People are just clueless as to what the danger is here." I am a physicist by education and I do not see what the panic is, except for the fact that this is GLP and so fear mongers get to go full retard. The system is stable, cooling is still operational, and the entire reactor can be slowly moved to a cold shutdown if necessary. So, doom off.  Last Edited by Gelatinous Mass on 12/07/2015 05:59 PM |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70815046 United States12/07/2015 05:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| aHEMagain^2
(OP) User ID: 63817294 United States12/07/2015 05:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yeah discussing it on pg.1 Actually have some idiot saying this is no condition red just a "shit this is gona be expensive to fix" because its a PWR and not a Chernobyl design or BWR. As if. Quoting: Bodiless Shills jumped on the thread quickly--i"m sure they will here soon. I searched for indian point in threads, can you link the thread here? aHEMagain Last Edited by aHEMagain^2 on 12/07/2015 05:57 PM "And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot." -- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org] "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu] |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 05:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thread: Gov’t: Shutdown at U.S. nuclear plant after 10 control rods accidentally fall into reactor core “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| aHEMagain^2
(OP) User ID: 63817294 United States12/07/2015 06:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is no way this doesn't have the potential to go very bad. The geometry of the core has been screwed. It's the kind of thing that cause localized nuclear poisoning by xenon, then a few hours later, it decays, causing a surge of neutrons in a localized area. aHEMagain Last Edited by aHEMagain^2 on 12/07/2015 06:00 PM "And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot." -- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org] "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu] |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 06:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You sir are clueless and have no idea how chemical reactors or power plants work do you? Another sensationalist who wants to scream and shout when you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. Doom off. chemical reactors? You do realize that it is the control rods which attenuate the neutron flux...oh, fuck, nevermind...."chemical reactors" “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70987541  United Kingdom12/07/2015 06:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is no way this doesn't have the potential to go very bad. The geometry of the core has been screwed. It's the kind of thing that cause localized nuclear poisoning by xenon, then a few hours later, it decays, causing a surge of neutrons in a localized area. aHEMagain You don't know how hard we are laughing at what you just said. HAHAHAHAHAHA. One of the dumbest things we have seen in a long time. PAHAHA. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70815046 United States12/07/2015 06:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is no way this doesn't have the potential to go very bad. The geometry of the core has been screwed. It's the kind of thing that cause localized nuclear poisoning by xenon, then a few hours later, it decays, causing a surge of neutrons in a localized area. aHEMagain Could you elaborate how the geometry of the core is screwed? The control rods are supposed to drop down to stop the chain reaction... they just weren't supposed to right now. Sounds like the VFD that controls the rod actuator motors failed, and they dropped down to stop the reaction as they were designed to. |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 06:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is no way this doesn't have the potential to go very bad. The geometry of the core has been screwed. It's the kind of thing that cause localized nuclear poisoning by xenon, then a few hours later, it decays, causing a surge of neutrons in a localized area. aHEMagain No shit bud. And yet below your comment we find two examples of the "nuclear shill" ardently trying to portray themselves as some type of skilled operators at these "chemical reactors" OMG “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| aHEMagain^2
(OP) User ID: 63817294 United States12/07/2015 06:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is no way this doesn't have the potential to go very bad. The geometry of the core has been screwed. It's the kind of thing that cause localized nuclear poisoning by xenon, then a few hours later, it decays, causing a surge of neutrons in a localized area. aHEMagain You don't know how hard we are laughing at what you just said. HAHAHAHAHAHA. One of the dumbest things we have seen in a long time. PAHAHA. Sorry, not going to let the thread fill up with this. The adults are talking. aHEMagain "And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot." -- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org] "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu] |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 06:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They just swtitched to the other one. Hope you reported the trolls. One of them had never posted before the other thread was posted--in a 15 year search--expect to that thread. LOL--dead giveaway. Last Edited by Bodiless on 12/07/2015 06:09 PM “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70986554  Mexico12/07/2015 06:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| aHEMagain^2
(OP) User ID: 63817294 United States12/07/2015 06:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is no way this doesn't have the potential to go very bad. The geometry of the core has been screwed. It's the kind of thing that cause localized nuclear poisoning by xenon, then a few hours later, it decays, causing a surge of neutrons in a localized area. aHEMagain Could you elaborate how the geometry of the core is screwed? The control rods are supposed to drop down to stop the chain reaction... they just weren't supposed to right now. Sounds like the VFD that controls the rod actuator motors failed, and they dropped down to stop the reaction as they were designed to. That isn't the way I read it. There are more than 10 control rods. They say 10 DROPPED into the reactor. This means to me that ten rods fell loose into the reactor. It's an open question whether their uncontrolled drop ended well or not. There is no way this doesn't have the potential to go very bad. The geometry of the core has been screwed. It's the kind of thing that cause localized nuclear poisoning by xenon, then a few hours later, it decays, causing a surge of neutrons in a localized area. aHEMagain No shit bud. And yet below your comment we find two examples of the "nuclear shill" ardently trying to portray themselves as some type of skilled operators at these "chemical reactors" OMG R. Wordsworth isn't a shill, although he may disagree with me. The other can't play nice. aHEMagain "And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot." -- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org] "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu] |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 06:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Right not Words--the two AC's “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70815046 United States12/07/2015 06:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That isn't the way I read it. There are more than 10 control rods. They say 10 DROPPED into the reactor. This means to me that ten rods fell loose into the reactor. It's an open question whether their uncontrolled drop ended well or not. Quoting: aHEMagain^2 From what I understand, upon failure of the controlling system the rods are designed to safely drop down in a controlled manner to stop the nuclear reaction. Now perhaps an uncontrolled drop could fracture them, and that would certainly be doom, but that's not what was reported to be the failure. The failure was in the motor controller, not the motors or actuators themselves. In which case that system would go into fail safe mode and the rods would drop, stopping the reaction. For what it's worth, I've worked in the power generation industry for over 10 years and have actually been in a nuclear plant before as well as hundreds of other conventional plants... I wasn't working on the nuclear equipment but still, I am pretty familiar with how a lot of these control systems work. |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 06:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That isn't the way I read it. There are more than 10 control rods. They say 10 DROPPED into the reactor. This means to me that ten rods fell loose into the reactor. It's an open question whether their uncontrolled drop ended well or not. Quoting: aHEMagain^2 From what I understand, upon failure of the controlling system the rods are designed to safely drop down in a controlled manner to stop the nuclear reaction. Now perhaps an uncontrolled drop could fracture them, and that would certainly be doom, but that's not what was reported to be the failure. The failure was in the motor controller, not the motors or actuators themselves. In which case that system would go into fail safe mode and the rods would drop, stopping the reaction. For what it's worth, I've worked in the power generation industry for over 10 years and have actually been in a nuclear plant before as well as hundreds of other conventional plants... I wasn't working on the nuclear equipment but still, I am pretty familiar with how a lot of these control systems work. Thanks for your input, it is valued Words.. Then there is this: Several control rods also appear to have dropped at Virginia’s North Anna nuclear power plant after an earthquake in 2011: U.S. NRC Event Notification, Aug 29, 2011: EMERGENCY DECLARED… North Anna Power Station declared an Alert due to significant seismic activity U.S. NRC email, Sept 2011: RE: North Anna… At this point, it appears that the grippers for several of the control rods deenergized and dropped. Westinghouse patent: A dropped rod… will initially result in a reduction in the total power generated by the core. The reactor will then attempt to meet the load… by increasing power in the remainder of the core which could lead to local overheating elsewhere in the core. Satoshi Sato, Nuclear Engineer, April 28, 2015 (emphasis added): “I don’t know if you remember, there was the earthquake in 2011 in Virginia. That was a big one… enough to cause vibration to the North Anna reactor resulting in a big spike of neutron flux — or reactor power… and somehow caused the additional radioactivity into the core. So that’s something scary, potentially resulting in a supercriticality.” (IEER: “The neutron spike accompanying a sudden supercriticality can lead to an explosion of the reactor core. It is this sort of event which occurred at the Chernobyl reactor”) Last Edited by Bodiless on 12/07/2015 06:21 PM “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70815046 United States12/07/2015 06:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Westinghouse patent: A dropped rod… will initially result in a reduction in the total power generated by the core. The reactor will then attempt to meet the load… by increasing power in the remainder of the core which could lead to local overheating elsewhere in the core. Quoting: Bodiless Interesting, that makes sense. But we are long past the point of that threat, surely by now they have lowered the other control rods and shut the plant down... that would happen in a matter of minutes, if not seconds as soon as the operators realized there was a problem. |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 06:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Westinghouse patent: A dropped rod… will initially result in a reduction in the total power generated by the core. The reactor will then attempt to meet the load… by increasing power in the remainder of the core which could lead to local overheating elsewhere in the core. Quoting: Bodiless Interesting, that makes sense. But we are long past the point of that threat, surely by now they have lowered the other control rods and shut the plant down... that would happen in a matter of minutes, if not seconds as soon as the operators realized there was a problem. Well, we hopin' bud. That had not been reported, and since it occured 12/5, one would think had that happened it would have been reported by now. Thanks again for your input. This bears watching IMO. “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70815046 United States12/07/2015 06:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That transformer is how the plant gets it's power from the grid when it is down... fortunately the backup systems worked as they should and the cooling pumps kept operating. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70815046 United States12/07/2015 06:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70815046 United States12/07/2015 06:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Although as I have said, I think the doom is off for this incident, it is still very disturbing that some of the control rods could fall without the rest falling at the same time. As Bodiless reported, this could lead to an unbalanced situation in the core with the other rods being overworked and possibly an explosion in the unit. This plant has certainly had a lot of problems... nuke plants are under a lot of pressure right now because natural gas plants can make electricity cheaper, and they are building them fucking everywhere. It cuts into their bottom line, which cuts into their maintinence budget. |
| aHEMagain^2
(OP) User ID: 63817294 United States12/07/2015 06:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That isn't the way I read it. There are more than 10 control rods. They say 10 DROPPED into the reactor. This means to me that ten rods fell loose into the reactor. It's an open question whether their uncontrolled drop ended well or not. Quoting: aHEMagain^2 From what I understand, upon failure of the controlling system the rods are designed to safely drop down in a controlled manner to stop the nuclear reaction. Now perhaps an uncontrolled drop could fracture them, and that would certainly be doom, but that's not what was reported to be the failure. The failure was in the motor controller, not the motors or actuators themselves. In which case that system would go into fail safe mode and the rods would drop, stopping the reaction. For what it's worth, I've worked in the power generation industry for over 10 years and have actually been in a nuclear plant before as well as hundreds of other conventional plants... I wasn't working on the nuclear equipment but still, I am pretty familiar with how a lot of these control systems work. The only real data any of us have to go on is this: MANUAL REACTOR TRIP INITIATED DUE TO MULTIPLE DROPPED CONTROL RODS "At 1731 [EST] on December 5, 2015, Indian Point Unit 2 Control Room operators initiated a Manual Reactor Trip due to indications of multiple dropped Control Rods. The initiating event was a smoldering Motor Control Center (MCC) cubicle in the Turbine Building that supplies power to the Rod Control System. The unit is stable in Mode 3 with heat sink provided by Auxiliary Feedwater and decay heat removal is via the steam dumps to the condenser. Offsite Power remains in service. "The smoldering MCC cubicle had power removed from it when 24 MCC breaker tripped on overcurrent. The affected cubicle has ceased smoldering and is being monitored by on-site Fire Brigade trained personnel. The trip of 24 MCC removed power to 22 Battery Charger, 22 DC Bus remained powered from the 22 Battery without interruption, and 22 Battery Charger was subsequently repowered." So we don't know if just a couple dropped because they lost power to the rod control system, or if more damage occurred. The key thing is, contrary to assurances, there is no indication from the alert that they have regained control of the rods. This is evidenced by the fact they've had to use the aux. feedwater system to provide additional heat sink. aHEMagain Last Edited by aHEMagain^2 on 12/07/2015 06:38 PM "And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper piece harlot." -- Vaarsuvius, The Order of the Stick [link to tvtropes.org] "History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme" -- Mark Twain "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.-- William Clifford [link to myweb.lmu.edu] |
| Bodiless
Forum Administrator User ID: 70503725 United States12/07/2015 06:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That isn't the way I read it. There are more than 10 control rods. They say 10 DROPPED into the reactor. This means to me that ten rods fell loose into the reactor. It's an open question whether their uncontrolled drop ended well or not. Quoting: aHEMagain^2 From what I understand, upon failure of the controlling system the rods are designed to safely drop down in a controlled manner to stop the nuclear reaction. Now perhaps an uncontrolled drop could fracture them, and that would certainly be doom, but that's not what was reported to be the failure. The failure was in the motor controller, not the motors or actuators themselves. In which case that system would go into fail safe mode and the rods would drop, stopping the reaction. For what it's worth, I've worked in the power generation industry for over 10 years and have actually been in a nuclear plant before as well as hundreds of other conventional plants... I wasn't working on the nuclear equipment but still, I am pretty familiar with how a lot of these control systems work. The only real data any of us have to go on is this: MANUAL REACTOR TRIP INITIATED DUE TO MULTIPLE DROPPED CONTROL RODS "At 1731 [EST] on December 5, 2015, Indian Point Unit 2 Control Room operators initiated a Manual Reactor Trip due to indications of multiple dropped Control Rods. The initiating event was a smoldering Motor Control Center (MCC) cubicle in the Turbine Building that supplies power to the Rod Control System. The unit is stable in Mode 3 with heat sink provided by Auxiliary Feedwater and decay heat removal is via the steam dumps to the condenser. Offsite Power remains in service. "The smoldering MCC cubicle had power removed from it when 24 MCC breaker tripped on overcurrent. The affected cubicle has ceased smoldering and is being monitored by on-site Fire Brigade trained personnel. The trip of 24 MCC removed power to 22 Battery Charger, 22 DC Bus remained powered from the 22 Battery without interruption, and 22 Battery Charger was subsequently repowered." So we don't know if just a couple dropped because they lost power to the rod control system, or if more damage occurred. The key thing is, contrary to assurances, there is no indication from the alert that they have regained control of the rods. This is evidenced by the fact they've had to use the aux. feedwater system to provide additional heat sink. aHEMagain Was wondering about that very thing....so I'm digging into the aux feed pumps secondary control pumps sys for PWR's Will get back here on it later. Plus I am not sure just how they would regain "control" of the rods if they dropped out of the channels when they dropped--short of removing the shroud. I am concerned about the lack of update on this two days later--one would expect them to issue a complete recontrol msg by now if they had. I can find none such. “We have assembled the most extensive and inclusive Voter Fraud Organization in the history of America”—Joe “SippyCup” Biden Joe Biden will never be the man Michelle Obama is The worst thing about dying is that you become a democratic voter for eternity |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 70736245 United States12/07/2015 06:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
