Why is this news today - Nuke plants face EMP disaster as feds scramble for quick fix | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 67882751 Finland 02/09/2015 05:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Resister
(OP) User ID: 36421936 United States 02/09/2015 05:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Actually the sheople appear to have no fear at all so long as they have enough entertainment. Joe and Susie Six Pack don't appear to be worried at all about tens of thousands of Christians dying at the hands of jihadist muslims, or a cornered Russian Bear retaking Ukraine, or the $18 trillion debt we can't pay, or the impending carsh of the Euro. Nope, they don't get worried at all until the TV tells them too and even then they get a commercial break every 10 minutes and the world is saved once again in an hour. Last Edited by Resister on 02/09/2015 05:46 PM "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 64774714 United States 02/09/2015 05:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Carnac The Magnificent
User ID: 29440581 United States 02/09/2015 05:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Could it be because of this? Thread: 400,000 Mile Long "Solar Filament" Grows to 1,000,000 KM is Earth-Facing! Update:CME/Comet pg.15 Quoting: Resister Very interesting... I spend a lot of time managing large projects and risk.... risk management is crucial. Some risks just do not get any traction... they are significant.. they can be mitigated, but the stakeholders do not think the costs to eliminate or transfer the risk to another party are justified -- so they reject the risk assessment made by professionals and do not take action. UNTIL a scenario develops where the risk becomes a high probability event. Then you see people 'scramble to find a quick fix'. Unfortunately, by that point they are in CYA mode -- and the fix is only superficial because taking the action required would require them to admit they screwed-up. Often, they did not allocate funds to the project to deal with the risk, and just the process to get more funds is too political for them to bear. My guess -- they were told of the risks (anyone with a brain knew they were there) -- they did not plan or budget for the risks -- and they will not really address the issue because it would cost them their jobs, or reputation. Simply stated - These things get taken care of up front -- or they don't get taken care of until the project fails. With EMP, that will be too late. Have a nice day = GFY. GFY = Go Fuck Yourself. If this offends you then have a nice day. |
Resister
(OP) User ID: 36421936 United States 02/09/2015 05:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Could it be because of this? Thread: 400,000 Mile Long "Solar Filament" Grows to 1,000,000 KM is Earth-Facing! Update:CME/Comet pg.15 Quoting: Resister Very interesting... I spend a lot of time managing large projects and risk.... risk management is crucial. Some risks just do not get any traction... they are significant.. they can be mitigated, but the stakeholders do not think the costs to eliminate or transfer the risk to another party are justified -- so they reject the risk assessment made by professionals and do not take action. UNTIL a scenario develops where the risk becomes a high probability event. Then you see people 'scramble to find a quick fix'. Unfortunately, by that point they are in CYA mode -- and the fix is only superficial because taking the action required would require them to admit they screwed-up. Often, they did not allocate funds to the project to deal with the risk, and just the process to get more funds is too political for them to bear. My guess -- they were told of the risks (anyone with a brain knew they were there) -- they did not plan or budget for the risks -- and they will not really address the issue because it would cost them their jobs, or reputation. Simply stated - These things get taken care of up front -- or they don't get taken care of until the project fails. With EMP, that will be too late. yep "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 65855861 Finland 02/09/2015 06:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Actually the sheople appear to have no fear at all so long as they have enough entertainment. Joe and Susie Six Pack don't appear to be worried at all about tens of thousands of Christians dying at the hands of jihadist muslims, or a cornered Russian Bear retaking Ukraine, or the $18 trillion debt we can't pay, or the impending carsh of the Euro. Nope, they don't get worried at all until the TV tells them too and even then they get a commercial break every 10 minutes and the world is saved once again in an hour. Believe NONE of what you see/hear/read on the media outlets and half of what you see live with your own two eyes. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 65730928 United States 02/09/2015 06:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Trained Noticer
Forum Moderator User ID: 66678209 United States 02/09/2015 06:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Could it be because of this? Thread: 400,000 Mile Long "Solar Filament" Grows to 1,000,000 KM is Earth-Facing! Update:CME/Comet pg.15 Quoting: Resister Very interesting... I spend a lot of time managing large projects and risk.... risk management is crucial. Some risks just do not get any traction... they are significant.. they can be mitigated, but the stakeholders do not think the costs to eliminate or transfer the risk to another party are justified -- so they reject the risk assessment made by professionals and do not take action. UNTIL a scenario develops where the risk becomes a high probability event. Then you see people 'scramble to find a quick fix'. Unfortunately, by that point they are in CYA mode -- and the fix is only superficial because taking the action required would require them to admit they screwed-up. Often, they did not allocate funds to the project to deal with the risk, and just the process to get more funds is too political for them to bear. My guess -- they were told of the risks (anyone with a brain knew they were there) -- they did not plan or budget for the risks -- and they will not really address the issue because it would cost them their jobs, or reputation. Simply stated - These things get taken care of up front -- or they don't get taken care of until the project fails. With EMP, that will be too late. Carnac... You are Magnificent. Spot on.:goob3: For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase) It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. (Mark Twain) |
Rev Woo-Woo
User ID: 53860996 United States 02/09/2015 06:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Could it be because of this? Thread: 400,000 Mile Long "Solar Filament" Grows to 1,000,000 KM is Earth-Facing! Update:CME/Comet pg.15 Quoting: Resister Very interesting... I spend a lot of time managing large projects and risk.... risk management is crucial. Some risks just do not get any traction... they are significant.. they can be mitigated, but the stakeholders do not think the costs to eliminate or transfer the risk to another party are justified -- so they reject the risk assessment made by professionals and do not take action. UNTIL a scenario develops where the risk becomes a high probability event. Then you see people 'scramble to find a quick fix'. Unfortunately, by that point they are in CYA mode -- and the fix is only superficial because taking the action required would require them to admit they screwed-up. Often, they did not allocate funds to the project to deal with the risk, and just the process to get more funds is too political for them to bear. My guess -- they were told of the risks (anyone with a brain knew they were there) -- they did not plan or budget for the risks -- and they will not really address the issue because it would cost them their jobs, or reputation. Simply stated - These things get taken care of up front -- or they don't get taken care of until the project fails. With EMP, that will be too late. Very good analysis! So, they are either lying and fear mongering and already have a plan or we're fooked “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Trained Noticer
Forum Moderator User ID: 66678209 United States 02/09/2015 06:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Could it be because of this? Thread: 400,000 Mile Long "Solar Filament" Grows to 1,000,000 KM is Earth-Facing! Update:CME/Comet pg.15 Quoting: Resister Very interesting... I spend a lot of time managing large projects and risk.... risk management is crucial. Some risks just do not get any traction... they are significant.. they can be mitigated, but the stakeholders do not think the costs to eliminate or transfer the risk to another party are justified -- so they reject the risk assessment made by professionals and do not take action. UNTIL a scenario develops where the risk becomes a high probability event. Then you see people 'scramble to find a quick fix'. Unfortunately, by that point they are in CYA mode -- and the fix is only superficial because taking the action required would require them to admit they screwed-up. Often, they did not allocate funds to the project to deal with the risk, and just the process to get more funds is too political for them to bear. My guess -- they were told of the risks (anyone with a brain knew they were there) -- they did not plan or budget for the risks -- and they will not really address the issue because it would cost them their jobs, or reputation. Simply stated - These things get taken care of up front -- or they don't get taken care of until the project fails. With EMP, that will be too late. Very good analysis! So, they are either lying and fear mongering and already have a plan or we're fooked Yep, they are lying, they are fear mongering, they don't don't have a plan... For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. (Stuart Chase) It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. (Mark Twain) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 56605273 United States 02/09/2015 07:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Actually the sheople appear to have no fear at all so long as they have enough entertainment. Joe and Susie Six Pack don't appear to be worried at all about tens of thousands of Christians dying at the hands of jihadist muslims, or a cornered Russian Bear retaking Ukraine, or the $18 trillion debt we can't pay, or the impending carsh of the Euro. Nope, they don't get worried at all until the TV tells them too and even then they get a commercial break every 10 minutes and the world is saved once again in an hour. +1 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 61974406 United States 02/09/2015 07:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60852438 United States 02/09/2015 09:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ
User ID: 67868595 United States 02/09/2015 09:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Most diesel generators can withstand a blast depending on the yield that set it off. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 948320 yeh. but enough electronics widgets will be fried so nothing works. I think what AC was getting at Is the Diesel Generators to run the cooling pumps..... when the grid Fries to keep the cooling pumps running. To keep the Nukes from going ballistic. It is well known that the Nuke plants have 1-2 weeks of stored diesel. What he fails to realize is that after the Grid goes...... There will not be more diesel coming by truck To keep the diesel generators running To keep the Nukes from going HOT. Critical thinking......HOW Does that work? Last Edited by HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ on 02/09/2015 09:27 PM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 63592133 United States 02/09/2015 09:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Most diesel generators can withstand a blast depending on the yield that set it off. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 948320 yeh. but enough electronics widgets will be fried so nothing works. I think what AC was getting at Is the Diesel Generators to run the cooling pumps..... when the grid Fries to keep the cooling pumps running. To keep the Nukes from going ballistic. It is well known that the Nuke plants have 1-2 weeks of stored diesel. What he fails to realize is that after the Grid goes...... There will not be more diesel coming by truck To keep the diesel generators running To keep the Nukes from going HOT. Critical thinking......HOW Does that work? :Darwin Award: Why do you think they even have the two weeks supply of diesel? Is it just to hope that things will not be that bad and a new delivery will arrive within that two weeks,,, OR... Or maybe do you think two weeks is plenty of time to do a controlled shutdown and render the material safely inactive. |
Truther User ID: 56061906 United States 02/09/2015 09:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ
User ID: 67868595 United States 02/09/2015 09:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 2 weeks is the number often quoted when that subject comes up. Total lack of planning. Just as the supposed possible ways of protecting these Lemmings has never been implemented, so also they assume that in 2 weeks or less they would be resupplied. Ignoring a Grid failure situation. Assholes watching the bottom profit line and nothing else. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50181251 United States 02/09/2015 09:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ
User ID: 67868595 United States 02/09/2015 09:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | as someone that has some electrical experience the only way to decrease the effects of a EMP is every outside substation would need several things one thing is a very heavy grounding and EMP would look for a ground so a very heavy ground to go deep into the soil. Next heavy duty Rods that go above the substation about 20 feet or more over the substation connected to that same Ground. Next a a heavy type of shielding it could be flat metal or a screen going over the substation also connected to that earth ground remember electricity always looks for a Ground with these things in place there is a very good chance to minimize the effects of an EMP . Quoting: Truther 56061906 For good protection..... The equipment needs to be unhooked and isolated at the time of the pulse. Still connected with incoming wiring through the ground shield? No protection. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18222145 United States 02/09/2015 09:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Obviously some don't understand how an EMP works. Sure that deisel may run, as long as you can hand crank it because the starter motor will be fried. Along with every other peice of electronic device that's not sheilded. Hate to burst your comfort bubble, but any protection "they" do is not for you and I. |
pmb1
User ID: 67655992 United States 02/09/2015 09:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | as someone that has some electrical experience the only way to decrease the effects of a EMP is every outside substation would need several things one thing is a very heavy grounding and EMP would look for a ground so a very heavy ground to go deep into the soil. Next heavy duty Rods that go above the substation about 20 feet or more over the substation connected to that same Ground. Next a a heavy type of shielding it could be flat metal or a screen going over the substation also connected to that earth ground remember electricity always looks for a Ground with these things in place there is a very good chance to minimize the effects of an EMP . Quoting: Truther 56061906 However we are talking government here, do you really think they would do something that easily??? By the time they spend years figuring out what to do they will most likely spend billions of dollars on tarps and say throw one of those over it and duct tape it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 66363781 United States 02/09/2015 09:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It's the why now part that gets me. The article is written like it is new news and the word "scramble" hardly fits the government's more than a decade old acknowledgement and refusal to do anything about it. Is somebody itchy because of the gigantic filament on the sun or nervous because of the tactical nuke like massive explosion in Ukraine yesterday? If so they certainly didn't reference any specific development either natural or man made. Quoting: Resister Just weird. ^^^^^THIS!!!!!!!! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 63592133 United States 02/09/2015 09:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 2 weeks is the number often quoted when that subject comes up. Quoting: HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ Total lack of planning. Just as the supposed possible ways of protecting these Lemmings has never been implemented, so also they assume that in 2 weeks or less they would be resupplied. Ignoring a Grid failure situation. Assholes watching the bottom profit line and nothing else. I think you are missing the point,, TWo weeks is plenty of time to remove the rods and terminate nuclear fusion. Thereby the plant is safe and shut down and in no need of any diesel delivery. CAPICE?,, you where saying about critical thinking? And Darwin award? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 63592133 United States 02/09/2015 09:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Obviously some don't understand how an EMP works. Sure that deisel may run, as long as you can hand crank it because the starter motor will be fried. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18222145 Along with every other peice of electronic device that's not sheilded. Hate to burst your comfort bubble, but any protection "they" do is not for you and I. The enclosure for these generators are lead lined, the redundant power system is completely protected. Including the UPS system.. |
HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ
User ID: 67868595 United States 02/09/2015 09:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 2 weeks is the number often quoted when that subject comes up. Quoting: HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ Total lack of planning. Just as the supposed possible ways of protecting these Lemmings has never been implemented, so also they assume that in 2 weeks or less they would be resupplied. Ignoring a Grid failure situation. Assholes watching the bottom profit line and nothing else. I think you are missing the point,, TWo weeks is plenty of time to remove the rods and terminate nuclear fusion. Thereby the plant is safe and shut down and in no need of any diesel delivery. CAPICE?,, you where saying about critical thinking? And Darwin award? I believe you are mistaken. Nukes cannot be shut down and cooled as fast as you think. I'm in the business. I read. Notice the hat in the Avatar? Last Edited by HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ on 02/09/2015 09:51 PM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60852438 United States 02/09/2015 09:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Most diesel generators can withstand a blast depending on the yield that set it off. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 948320 yeh. but enough electronics widgets will be fried so nothing works. I think what AC was getting at Is the Diesel Generators to run the cooling pumps..... when the grid Fries to keep the cooling pumps running. To keep the Nukes from going ballistic. It is well known that the Nuke plants have 1-2 weeks of stored diesel. What he fails to realize is that after the Grid goes...... There will not be more diesel coming by truck To keep the diesel generators running To keep the Nukes from going HOT. Critical thinking......HOW Does that work? :Darwin Award: o.k. yer right. fortify the Cooling System against EMP (priority). . |
HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ
User ID: 67868595 United States 02/09/2015 09:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How about we decommission these phukking things that should not have been built in the first place. Build new Coal fired steam generators. Stop the stupid ass Fracking. Release Tesla's free energy technology..... Oh, but that would make all the poor of the world rich, can't have that! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 63592133 United States 02/09/2015 09:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 2 weeks is the number often quoted when that subject comes up. Quoting: HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ Total lack of planning. Just as the supposed possible ways of protecting these Lemmings has never been implemented, so also they assume that in 2 weeks or less they would be resupplied. Ignoring a Grid failure situation. Assholes watching the bottom profit line and nothing else. I think you are missing the point,, TWo weeks is plenty of time to remove the rods and terminate nuclear fusion. Thereby the plant is safe and shut down and in no need of any diesel delivery. CAPICE?,, you where saying about critical thinking? And Darwin award? I believe you are mistaken. Nukes cannot be shut down and cooled as fast as you think. When a nuclear reactor has been shut down, and nuclear fission is not occurring at a large scale, the major source of heat production will be due to the beta decay of these fission fragments. For this reason, at the moment of reactor shutdown, decay heat will be about 6.5% of the previous core power if the reactor has had a long and steady power history. About 1 hour after shutdown, the decay heat will be about 1.5% of the previous core power. After a day, the decay heat falls to 0.4%, and after a week it will be only 0.2%. The decay heat production rate will continue to slowly decrease over time; the decay curve depends upon the proportions of the various fission products in the core and upon their respective half-lives. An approximation for the decay heat curve valid from 10 SECONDS to 100 DAYS after shutdown is (equation: [link to upload.wikimedia.org] Where P is the decay power, P0 is the reactor power before shutdown, τ is the time since reactor start and τs is the time of reactor shutdown measured from the time of startup (in seconds). I'm in the business. I read. Notice the hat in the Avatar? :Dumb People 2: :Breed Not: |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 62314786 United States 02/09/2015 10:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Nuke power plants are designed with a power failure fail safe that drops all the rods into the pool and the plant without power or control is in a cold shut down. The case with Fukushima was a crippled and broken plant after being hit by a tsunami, most notably the actual containment vessel and building where seriously damaged. |
HnryBwmn///KD0WSJ
User ID: 67868595 United States 02/09/2015 10:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |