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Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 12:01 PM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
you need the full plastic hazmat suit with a refrigerated airsupply (for cooling and breathing).

the kind that blows-up and makes you look like the Michelin Man.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


That would be ideal in working with a patient with a potential BSL4 agent.hf

I just cant understand why the CDC expects us to believe that the same agent that requires BSL4 precautions in their lab, is supposed to be OK to work around in a health care setting with so much less PPE and no respirator.

Oh wait, its us and not them....tounge
 Quoting: emerald eye


yes. but that's all rigging the hospital's should already
have installed. but the don't.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


so. see? we're actually no better off than those wretched souls in West Africa.

.
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/13/2014 12:02 PM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
I am not sure if this thread posted on the 12th got the attention that it deserved:

Thread: PROTECTIVE GEAR? - U.S. Hospitals Don't Know Which To Use/Don't Know How To Use It!




Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/13/2014 12:05 PM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


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Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 12:13 PM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
and then the Brits gave the Ruskies The Bomb in the name of "balance of power, to attain World peace".


.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 12:16 PM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
and then the Brits gave the Ruskies The Bomb in the name of "balance of power, to attain World peace".


.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


oops. wrong thread.
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/13/2014 01:08 PM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
I see a lot of threads on GLP advocating that the virus is a hoax, and that it will be used as an excuse for trotting out experiment and possibly dangerous vaccines.

I think that those two concepts must be separated and four things must be considered:

1. Is the existence of the Ebola virus itself a hoax? The Ebola virus itself exists and it is a very dangerous virus. The US army has been studying it for years, as the papers in these links show. There is a very long paper trail for this virus and it is well recorded. There has been much concern and interest in the Ebola virus as a class A bio-weapon.

2. Is Ebola being deliberately hyped? It is possible to some extent, due to concern and the need for information,which is a natural human response to a serious threat. If someone were to turn a cobra loose in a crowded room people would respond in a similar manner. What we don’t need now is panic and chaos. That doesn't help, and makes things worse. What we do need is calm assessments, rational thinking, and deliberate plans.


3. Is the spread of the virus being encouraged? This is one of my biggest areas of concern. By ignoring the results of many years of research on this virus, I feel that we may be unintentionally (or possibly intentionally?) encouraging its wider dissemination. By failing totally to enact effective quarantine and travel restrictions we are giving up on the two things that have been historically used to prevent the spread of infectious disease. In not properly protecting healthcare workers and others, we are encouraging the spread of this disease.

4. Is there an underlying motive for the spread of the virus or the fear of the virus spreading in administering vaccinations? I think that this is a reasonable question and concern. Is the fear of epidemics used to coerce people into vaccination? Absolutely it is. The vaccination debate is a huge topic, and I tend to lean more towards the suspicious of vaccination and vaccination science group, but I accept that many well qualified people feel differently. However, I do believe that everyone should have the freedom to refuse a vaccination that he or she is not comfortable taking. I do not believe in the concept of “herd immunity, and I do not feel that it has been successfully proven.

[link to www.vaccinationcouncil.org]


Just my 2 cents in these confusing times.
Good luck to us all..hf

Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/13/2014 01:11 PM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 01:21 PM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Vaccinations: are a good healthcare measure for averting
epidemics and the spread of serious diseases (they are very effective).

some people have bad reactions to these "vaccinations", and
that's just the breaks of game, compared to the 10s of thousands that are protected.

Ebola: the Ebola Virus is entirely a mechanism of Nature.
(just Nature doing her job).
everything is interconnected and communicates with one another,
from here to all across the Universe, all the time, continuously.

.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 01:24 PM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
and, the fundamental driving force of Nature is "to maintain homeostasis".
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/13/2014 01:31 PM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
and, the fundamental driving force of Nature is "to maintain homeostasis".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


While I appreciate your response, something about it made me think of this:

"MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000 IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE"


[link to www.thegeorgiaguidestones.com]

Maybe I am just tired and need to get some rest.hf
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2014 02:34 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
There you have it folks.

bump bump
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2014 10:01 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thought your thread, Emerald, would be a good place to share this...

I'm in Texas and yesterday my bestie called her nurse friend who works at a hospital 10 min away from Dallas Presby.

The highlight of the report back to me:

Presby ICU docs claim there was no possible way there was a "breach in protocol". That is what the CDC us making them tell the media to prevent mass hysteria. Since there really was no breach, means that it can be spread in a way beyond mere contact.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2014 10:06 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Just heard on CNN health care workers who came into contact with Duncan wearing full gear were NOT sprayed down after having contact. Being sprayed down in full gear is important and the failure to do so is why this nurse got sick.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2014 11:00 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
It is cool!
ZeroHedge is great, especially for Economic Doom. Lol, my personally preferred doom variety.
Too bad the format blows :( Hard to read/scrolling.
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/14/2014 11:07 AM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thought your thread, Emerald, would be a good place to share this...

I'm in Texas and yesterday my bestie called her nurse friend who works at a hospital 10 min away from Dallas Presby.

The highlight of the report back to me:

Presby ICU docs claim there was no possible way there was a "breach in protocol". That is what the CDC us making them tell the media to prevent mass hysteria. Since there really was no breach, means that it can be spread in a way beyond mere contact.
 Quoting: KarinZa.


Thanks for posting this update:

Tom Frieden (CDC director) was on CNN"

"...it does change, substantially, how we approach it"

"We have to rethink the way we address Ebola control..."



Maybe they are finally waking up

Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/14/2014 11:08 AM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2014 11:09 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Do the math:

One of the highest risks for infection in Africa is health care workers despite protective gear but without a respirator.

Healthcare workers have experienced very high rates of morbidity and mortality in the past and current Ebola virus outbreaks. A facemask, or surgical mask, offers no or very minimal protection from infectious aerosol particles. As our examples illustrate, for a risk group 4 organism like Ebola, the minimum level of protection should be an N95 filtering facepiece respirator.
This type of respirator, however, would only be appropriate only when the likelihood of aerosol exposure is very low. For healthcare workers caring for many patients in an epidemic situation, this type of respirator may not provide an adequate level of protection."

[link to www.cidrap.umn.edu]


A Health care worker is infected by a case in Spain, despite protective gear.

“The nurse has not been named. Spanish media said she is around 40 years old and only went into Viejo's room twice — once to directly assist in his care, another time to clean his room after he died. On both occasions she was wearing special protective clothing.”

[link to www.usatoday.com]


A Health care worker is infected by the case in Dallas, despite protective gear:
“She treated Duncan, the Ebola patient, after his second visit to the emergency room, on Sept. 28, and was “following full CDC precautions,” including wearing a gown, gloves, a mask and a protective face shield.”

[link to www.washingtonpost.com]

Do the math and you can only come to the same inescapable conclusion that these authors, (who are national experts on respiratory protection and infectious disease transmission) came to:


"In May they published a similar commentary on MERS-CoV. Dr Brosseau is a Professor and Dr Jones an Assistant Professor in the School of Public Health, Division of Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences, at the University of Illinois at Chicago."

Today's commentary was submitted to CIDRAP by the authors, who are national experts on respiratory protection and infectious disease transmission.”


We believe there is scientific and epidemiologic evidence that Ebola virus has the potential to be transmitted via infectious aerosol particles both near and at a distance from infected patients, which means that healthcare workers should be wearing respirators, not facemasks.1"

"The minimum level of protection in high-risk settings should be a respirator with an assigned protection factor greater than 10. A powered air-purifying respirator (PAPR) with a hood or helmet offers many advantages over an N95 filtering facepiece or similar respirator, being more protective, comfortable, and cost-effective in the long run."

"We strongly urge the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) to seek funds for the purchase and transport of PAPRs to all healthcare workers currently fighting the battle against Ebola throughout Africa—and beyond.."

"There has been a lot of on-line and published controversy about whether Ebola virus can be transmitted via aerosols. Most scientific and medical personnel, along with public health organizations, have been unequivocal in their statements that Ebola can be transmitted only by direct contact with virus-laden fluids2,3 and that the only modes of transmission we should be concerned with are those termed "droplet" and "contact."

"These statements are based on two lines of reasoning. The first is that no one located at a distance from an infected individual has contracted the disease, or the converse, every person infected has had (or must have had) "direct" contact with the body fluids of an infected person. This reflects an incorrect and outmoded understanding of infectious aerosols, which has been institutionalized in policies, language, culture, and approaches to infection control. We will address this below. Briefly, however, the important points are that virus-laden bodily fluids may be aerosolized and inhaled while a person is in proximity to an infectious person and that a wide range of particle sizes can be inhaled and deposited throughout the respiratory tract.

"Medical and infection control professionals have relied for years on a paradigm for aerosol transmission of infectious diseases based on very outmoded research and an overly simplistic interpretation of the data. In the 1940s and 50s, William F. Wells and other "aerobiologists" employed now significantly out-of-date sampling methods (eg, settling plates) and very blunt analytic approaches (eg, cell culturing) to understand the movement of bacterial aerosols in healthcare and other settings. Their work, though groundbreaking at the time, provides a very incomplete picture."

"Early aerobiologists were not able to measure small particles near an infectious person and thus assumed such particles existed only far from the source. They concluded that organisms capable of aerosol transmission (termed "airborne") can only do so at around 3 feet or more from the source. Because they thought that only larger particles would be present near the source, they believed people would be exposed only via large "droplets" on their face, eyes, or nose."

"Modern research, using more sensitive instruments and analytic methods, has shown that aerosols emitted from the respiratory tract contain a wide distribution of particle sizes—including many that are small enough to be inhaled.5,6 Thus, both small and large particles will be present near an infectious person."


"It's time to abandon the old paradigm of three mutually exclusive transmission routes for a new one that considers the full range of particle sizes both near and far from a source. In addition, we need to factor in other important features of infectivity, such as the ability of a pathogen to remain viable in air at room temperature and humidity and the likelihood that systemic disease can result from deposition of infectious particles in the respiratory system or their transfer to the gastrointestinal tract."

"We recommend using "aerosol transmissible" rather than the outmoded terms "droplet" or "airborne" to describe pathogens that can transmit disease via infectious particles suspended in air."

"The potential for transmission via inhalation of aerosols, therefore, cannot be ruled out by the observed risk factors or our knowledge of the infection process. Many body fluids, such as vomit, diarrhea, blood, and saliva, are capable of creating inhalable aerosol particles in the immediate vicinity of an infected person. Cough was identified among some cases in a 1995 outbreak in Kikwit, Democratic Republic of the Congo,11 and coughs are known to emit viruses in respirable particles.17 The act of vomiting produces an aerosol and has been implicated in airborne transmission of gastrointestinal viruses.18,19 Regarding diarrhea, even when contained by toilets, toilet flushing emits a pathogen-laden aerosol that disperses in the air.20-22"

“Experimental work has shown that Marburg and Ebola viruses can be isolated from sera and tissue culture medium at room temperature for up to 46 days, but at room temperature no virus was recovered from glass, metal, or plastic surfaces.23 Aerosolized (1-3 mcm) Marburg, Ebola, and Reston viruses, at 50% to 55% relative humidity and 72°F, had biological decay rates of 3.04%, 3.06%. and 1.55% per minute, respectively. These rates indicate that 99% loss in aerosol infectivity would occur in 93, 104, and 162 minutes, respectively.23
In still air, 3-mcm particles can take up to an hour to settle. With air currents, these and smaller particles can be transported considerable distances before they are deposited on a surface."

"There is also some experimental evidence that Ebola and other filoviruses can be transmitted by the aerosol route. Jaax et al24 reported the unexpected death of two rhesus monkeys housed approximately 3 meters from monkeys infected with Ebola virus, concluding that respiratory or eye exposure to aerosols was the only possible explanation."

"Zaire Ebola viruses have also been transmitted in the absence of direct contact among pigs 25 and from pigs to non-human primates,26 which experienced lung involvement in infection. Persons with no known direct contact with Ebola virus disease patients or their bodily fluids have become infected.12”

Facemasks, however, do not offer protection against inhalation of small infectious aerosols, because they lack adequate filters and do not fit tightly against the face.1 Therefore, a higher level of protection is necessary.”


[link to www.cidrap.umn.edu]


To summarize, for the following reasons we believe that Ebola could be an opportunistic aerosol-transmissible disease requiring adequate respiratory protection:
• Patients and procedures generate aerosols, and Ebola virus remains viable in aerosols for up to 90 minutes.
• All sizes of aerosol particles are easily inhaled both near to and far from the patient.
• Crowding, limited air exchange, and close interactions with patients all contribute to the probability that healthcare workers will be exposed to high concentrations of very toxic infectious aerosols.
• Ebola targets immune response cells found in all epithelial tissues, including in the respiratory and gastrointestinal system.
Experimental data support aerosols as a mode of disease transmission in non-human primates."


"Risk level and working conditions suggest that a PAPR will be more protective, cost-effective, and comfortable than an N95 filtering facepiece respirator.”



My opinion:

Unless we are being given this protection, (PAPR (A powered air-purifying respirator) with a full facepiece (APF = 50) or a hood or helmet) we are unnecessarily placing ourselves and many others in harm’s way.

Just my opinion for what it’s worth, but on a very serious issue, and I think that it is time for health care workers (and others) to stand up and be heard on this issue. hf

It is time to stop blaming healthcare workers for getting infected, and look honesty at the whole picture and what has NOT BEEN WORKING and why it has not been working!!!

(Less than 50% quoted as per GLP rules)
 Quoting: emerald eye


you seam on the money... but i know that they wont pay diddley squat in the Uk unless they can categorically prove it... look they are even making people fill out forms when they enter the country... however we all know that is all re litigation... but why should the very people who we all will rely on in the time of these emergencies sacrifice themselves... they are not paid enough and are under appreciated... thanks to all the health workers and those who are involved in care
CHACMOOL RULES

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10/14/2014 11:09 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
5 stars...bump
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2014 11:17 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thought your thread, Emerald, would be a good place to share this...

 Quoting: KarinZa.


Thanks for posting this update:

Tom Frieden (CDC director) was on CNN"

"...it does change, substantially, how we approach it"

"We have to rethink the way we address Ebola control..."

] [link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Maybe they are finally waking up
 Quoting: emerald eye


IF they change the way they report to the public as well, right :) ?
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/14/2014 11:35 AM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thought your thread, Emerald, would be a good place to share this...

 Quoting: KarinZa.


Thanks for posting this update:

Tom Frieden (CDC director) was on CNN"

"...it does change, substantially, how we approach it"

"We have to rethink the way we address Ebola control..."

] [link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Maybe they are finally waking up
 Quoting: emerald eye


IF they change the way they report to the public as well, right :) ?
 Quoting: KarinZa.


That may be too much to ask for right now...they want to avoid a panic.

I LOL at the threads that say Ebola is a hoax, or BS...too much going on behind the scenes right now. In a strange way, that perception is helping to hold things together for now.

Just my thoughts... hf
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2014 11:37 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
That may be too much to ask for right now...they want to avoid a panic.

 Quoting: emerald eye


Winner, winner....
:OsoPlan:
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/14/2014 12:20 PM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
That may be too much to ask for right now...they want to avoid a panic.

 Quoting: emerald eye


Winner, winner....
:OsoPlan:
 Quoting: KarinZa.



Yes, my take, is that they are now trying desperately to suppress information:


Thread: Twitter suspending Journalist Accounts for Reporting NEW Ebola cases! This is insane!


“One of the disgusting things during my reporting on Ebola is hearing from journalists across the country who are purposefully suppressing news about the outbreak,”
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/14/2014 04:11 PM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Yeah, been reading Johnson's articles on that website gotnews.com
Interesting stuff.





GLP