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Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear

 
emerald eye  (OP)
Keeping an "eye out" for the truth.

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10/13/2014 12:56 AM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
bump



for other professionals who read the deathcare 'insurance' and understand the nature of aerosolized viruses that have almost zero survival



exit the field, treat when you must,as it worsens...


highest precautions



remember morbidity


if 100% dying...why mess around with catching it???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27249705


Many of us will help people as effectively as we can, but taking unnecessary risks is just plain stupid.

Most of us are not stupid, and the fact that the contacts of Ebola patients who are getting infected seem to be health care workers is not lost on the vast majority of us.


Trust me on this…there is a current.
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 01:09 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
you need the full plastic hazmat suit with a refrigerated airsupply (for cooling and breathing).

the kind that blows-up and makes you look like the Michelin Man.

.
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/13/2014 01:22 AM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
you need the full plastic hazmat suit with a refrigerated airsupply (for cooling and breathing).

the kind that blows-up and makes you look like the Michelin Man.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


That would be ideal in working with a patient with a potential BSL4 agent.hf

I just cant understand why the CDC expects us to believe that the same agent that requires BSL4 precautions in their lab, is supposed to be OK to work around in a health care setting with so much less PPE and no respirator.

Oh wait, its us and not them....tounge
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
emerald eye  (OP)
Keeping an "eye out" for the truth.

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10/13/2014 01:28 AM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Good night all,

I will try to answer any questions that this thread generates tomorrow.hf
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
robomont

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10/13/2014 01:37 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
this is the info i asked last night on here about.
thankyou emerald eyes for a very detailed report.maybe the nurses will be seeing this and stand up and say no ,not until i get a pressurized suit.

the cdc let us down and betrayed us.
im not god but i play one on glp.
Lilbabez33

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10/13/2014 01:42 AM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
I totally agree with you,

Ebola reston ( a type which only is lethal to monkeys) was proven to be transmissible by aerosol at very low doses and actually there were cases of 6 human handlers being infected with this virus by aerosol transmission.

[ [link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Reston genetically is very similar to ebola zaire.

Also, if ebola zaire is not transmissible by aerosol transmission then why is it classified as a biosafety level 4 disease? (“for work with dangerous and exotic agents that pose a high individual risk of aerosol- transmitted laboratory infections”)
see slide 10,
[link to www.cdc.gov]


Take a look at what the CDC does when they have to be in contact with ebola
[link to www.cdc.gov]
 Quoting: Earl of Grey


Read the steps that must be implemented in a BSL-4 lab, including insect and pest control, now think of Duncan's apartment, with possible roaches scurrying at night through his ebola mattress, and maybe rats licking at his vomitus, then right on to the next guy's apartment and walking over dishes and sinks... Think of all the possible ways we are screwed. The pressure washing of his vomit from the sidewalk. Ugggg.
 Quoting: LiquifiedKidney


YES, I agree with what you said and therein lies the problem that my brain just can't wrap around. Because of the rats and the roaches and the airborne/aerosolized droplets, there should be a shitload more people coming forward that are infected. Where are they?
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
-Albert Einstein
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Texas Brushpopper

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10/13/2014 01:43 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
ER Nurse here.

A few years back, I signed up for a 2 day hazmat class.

It was free, I got paid for going, and they had catered lunch... So why wouldn't I?

It was very interesting and had lots of hands-on training for level B hazmat.

Level B is what I would guess... SHOULD be the minimum hospital staff should be using when caring for an Ebola patient.

It's basically a Tyvek suit, PAPR respirator, rubber boots and gloves, with the suit arms and legs taped over them.

Here's what sucks:
They are expensive for the hospital to purchase.
They require a fair amount of training.
They are very cumbersome.
We donned our suits and had hazmat drills for roughly 45
minutes in 80 degree weather. By the time we were finished,
most of us were exhausted, soaked in sweat, etc.
The PAPRs were shitty quality at best.
Constantly malfunctioning, missing parts, etc.

IMO, the hospitals/CDC know damn well that this is required to safely care for an Ebola patient. They also realize that it is a logistical nightmare to go this route.

So what do we get? A throw away paper gown, N95 Mask and some rubber gloves.

Shit's about to get real

wtf 10
Texas Brushpopper
emerald eye  (OP)
Keeping an "eye out" for the truth.

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10/13/2014 01:50 AM

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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
I think you are so right...

Thanks for weighing in, and take care of yourself. I can put up with a fair amount of discomfort in order not to die, if given those two options as a choice, but most people are not really thinking about it seriously.


They can only twist the facts for so long.


They do not have the logistics or the incentive to deal with the proper precautions for all who will need them, and the CDC knows it.

Shit's about to get real.

Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/13/2014 01:51 AM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:11 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
"Persons with no known direct contact with Ebola virus disease or their bodily fluids have become infected.12”

That is extremely disturbing to me.
That needs to be clarified. If that is
The case I would say within a few years
Our country will be in ruins. Let alone Africa
And the rest of the world.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:13 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
That hazmat suit won't do any good,
unless it's decontaminated with a
good virucide prior to removal.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:34 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
As 'evidence' that it is airborne.
To convince you through signs that it is airborne.
Claim: it's airborne. Signs: mysterious infection despite standard protocols
You then use the signs to 'prove' the claim's truthfulness

But what if the claim: (It's airborne) is a lie?
That makes the signs: (infection despite standard protocols), lying.

For months leading up to today's latest news, the same pulpit has given you horses and Trojan horses and heroin. Horse is slang for heroin. What if a toxin is placed into the heroin supply? Seemingly random people will start falling sick all around us, mainly in large cities first. . Millions are recreational users using their drug in private without friends or families aware of it. So, having been convinced that health care workers are falling sick via an airborne virus through the pulpit of mass media, we all will conclude that the random people around us falling sick are getting sick via the same method. Yet they are lying signs which prove a lie as true.
But tainted heroin may be the true claim and therefore the sick people are true signs of the true claim.

Now I'm not saying this is the reality, but rather giving a caution of how lying signs and wonders work on us. They are lying because they are given as evidence of a claim that is a lie itself. The real claim however is the truth and if you were aware of it, the people falling sick are actually proof of it.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:37 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thank you for posting Emerald!!


To be honest, THAT is the reason I thought this was all a hoax:

Only a FOOL would possibly try to handle Ebola with less than BSL4.

We've known that for decades now. We've had Ebola outbreaks before. We had to know BSL-2 wouldn't cut it going in.

In other words, trying to contain Ebola with BSL-2 is a token gesture. Barely better than going naked. Pointless.

So either this is all fake, or they know we are so utterly fucked they can't actually do anything about it.

I say again, you CANNOT contain a BSL-4 infectious agent under BSL-2 standards. I'm sure the freaking CDC knows this.

Therefore it's either fake and not Ebola, or it is Ebola and it's beyond containment.

You can't set up BSL-4 level containment in an infected place after the fact.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:38 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
One of the most compelling posts I have EVER seen on GLP.

The CDC and authorities MUST consider this as a possibility, considering the scientific evidence (Spanish Nurse, Texan nurse, many many HCWs infected in Africa)...

They don't have to scare us but they do have a duty to investigate rather than presume an error was made.

It's obvious to me that aerosol xmission is a possibility, and a likely one at that.

I speak as a PhD-qualified physicist, an honorary research fellow with 000's of citations for papers with my name on them.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:38 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
^ last "level" was redundant obviously
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:40 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Best means of prevention is not to be there, period.

If Ebola is as bad as it is they'ld probably have to flamethrower the protective clothes as soon as they get taken off.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:43 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
I think they failed their chance to have BSL-4 procedures in place (if there was ever a chance at all) and what we will see now is a grudging backpedal as they admit it's already too late.

I'm sincerely hoping it really is just a giant immunization scam, because that would be by far the easier to deal with.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:44 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
you need the full plastic hazmat suit with a refrigerated airsupply (for cooling and breathing).

the kind that blows-up and makes you look like the Michelin Man.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


That would be ideal in working with a patient with a potential BSL4 agent.hf

I just cant understand why the CDC expects us to believe that the same agent that requires BSL4 precautions in their lab, is supposed to be OK to work around in a health care setting with so much less PPE and no respirator.

Oh wait, its us and not them....tounge
 Quoting: emerald eye


yes. but that's all rigging the hospital's should already
have installed. but the don't.

.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:47 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
you need the full plastic hazmat suit with a refrigerated airsupply (for cooling and breathing).

the kind that blows-up and makes you look like the Michelin Man.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


That would be ideal in working with a patient with a potential BSL4 agent.hf

I just cant understand why the CDC expects us to believe that the same agent that requires BSL4 precautions in their lab, is supposed to be OK to work around in a health care setting with so much less PPE and no respirator.

Oh wait, its us and not them....tounge
 Quoting: emerald eye


yes. but that's all rigging the hospital's should already
have installed. but the don't.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


Most hospitals barely have the funding to continue daily operations to begin with, and even then it's often by cutting corners.

No offense to you actual health workers, you astound me with what you deal with and how you make do.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 02:50 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
you need the full plastic hazmat suit with a refrigerated airsupply (for cooling and breathing).

the kind that blows-up and makes you look like the Michelin Man.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


That would be ideal in working with a patient with a potential BSL4 agent.hf

I just cant understand why the CDC expects us to believe that the same agent that requires BSL4 precautions in their lab, is supposed to be OK to work around in a health care setting with so much less PPE and no respirator.

Oh wait, its us and not them....tounge
 Quoting: emerald eye


yes. but that's all rigging the hospital's should already
have installed. but the don't.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61708997


so. see? we're actually no better off than those wretched souls in West Africa.

.
Texas Brushpopper

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10/13/2014 03:02 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
A few questions for healthcare workers:

If this does become a pandemic... Will you take the vaccine?

To not, would surely mean getting fired. Oh sure, you can lawyer up with Dewey, Cheatem and Howe.. file a big-ass lawsuit and maybe win in 5 years. But what will be left of this world by then?

I don't know about y'all, but I am the primary breadwinner of the house. I make a comfortable living, but we have a mortgage, car payment, utilities, etc. I can't just quit my job and go work at Wally World.

Question 2: If the Ebola shit is truly hitting the fan.. Odds are that sooner or later, healthcare workers are going to get infected. Wouldn't it be a gamble to purposefully get infected very early on? I mean shit... Get admitted early when they can load your ass up on antivirals, fluids, the total support of the whole fucking hospital. Be the lone motherfucker in a 24-bed ICU with a fuck-ton of top notch Drs, nurses, ancillary staff at your disposal.
Imagine getting it late in the game when the place is overwhelmed, people are dying all over the place, half of the staff has bugged out.
Take a 50-50 gamble on beating it and getting those precious antibodies?

Fuck, I need another beer 1doh1
Texas Brushpopper
robomont

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10/13/2014 03:15 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
sandblasting respirator hood +- 850$
trying to figure out how to post pic.

Last Edited by YOUR HANDLER on 10/13/2014 03:18 AM
im not god but i play one on glp.
robomont

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10/13/2014 03:22 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
[link to www.nortonsandblasting.com]

heres a link and this setup along with some high end neoprene duckhunting waders and gloves will hook you up for any weather.only thing is you have to have hoses hooked up to it.ive worn these before in middle of east texas summer and they are cadillac.

and they are pressurized around head down to neck level.with gasket around neck

Last Edited by YOUR HANDLER on 10/13/2014 03:24 AM
im not god but i play one on glp.
deathpossum

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10/13/2014 03:28 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
sandblasting respirator hood +- 850$
trying to figure out how to post pic.
 Quoting: robomont


damn you again norton.

so, without a tombstone making outfit (most of the guys around here just wear a mask), I would say around 200 yards would make a good barrier.
[Your rights are] "wherever we're willing to draw a line and say 'you cannot come across this line or I'll kill you.' That's where our rights are. If you don't understand that, folks, then it's beyond my capability to explain it to you. They will get away with whatever you let them get away with. And until you draw the line and you're willing to die for what you believe in, they will keep taking and taking and taking and taking, until there is no more left to take. Then, it's all gone, and you're a slave."
-bill cooper
robomont

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10/13/2014 03:39 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
[link to t.basspro.com]

and heres the perfect waders with boots built in and knee pads.

so basically a compressed air supply and 1500$ would put a suit ,anywhere in the world.
im not god but i play one on glp.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 03:40 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thank you for posting Emerald!!


To be honest, THAT is the reason I thought this was all a hoax:

Only a FOOL would possibly try to handle Ebola with less than BSL4.

We've known that for decades now. We've had Ebola outbreaks before. We had to know BSL-2 wouldn't cut it going in.

In other words, trying to contain Ebola with BSL-2 is a token gesture. Barely better than going naked. Pointless.

So either this is all fake, or they know we are so utterly fucked they can't actually do anything about it.

I say again, you CANNOT contain a BSL-4 infectious agent under BSL-2 standards. I'm sure the freaking CDC knows this.

Therefore it's either fake and not Ebola, or it is Ebola and it's beyond containment.

You can't set up BSL-4 level containment in an infected place after the fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31058171


Add to this that clusterfuck OBOMACARE is EBOLACARE. We are all dead real soon
deathpossum

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10/13/2014 03:43 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thank you for posting Emerald!!


To be honest, THAT is the reason I thought this was all a hoax:

Only a FOOL would possibly try to handle Ebola with less than BSL4.

We've known that for decades now. We've had Ebola outbreaks before. We had to know BSL-2 wouldn't cut it going in.

In other words, trying to contain Ebola with BSL-2 is a token gesture. Barely better than going naked. Pointless.

So either this is all fake, or they know we are so utterly fucked they can't actually do anything about it.

I say again, you CANNOT contain a BSL-4 infectious agent under BSL-2 standards. I'm sure the freaking CDC knows this.

Therefore it's either fake and not Ebola, or it is Ebola and it's beyond containment.

You can't set up BSL-4 level containment in an infected place after the fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31058171


Add to this that clusterfuck OBOMACARE is EBOLACARE. We are all dead real soon
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63952251


You won't be without either a.) a $2000 suit or b.) keep away from infection.

To me it's not that hard to figure out.
[Your rights are] "wherever we're willing to draw a line and say 'you cannot come across this line or I'll kill you.' That's where our rights are. If you don't understand that, folks, then it's beyond my capability to explain it to you. They will get away with whatever you let them get away with. And until you draw the line and you're willing to die for what you believe in, they will keep taking and taking and taking and taking, until there is no more left to take. Then, it's all gone, and you're a slave."
-bill cooper
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 03:45 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thank you for posting Emerald!!


To be honest, THAT is the reason I thought this was all a hoax:

Only a FOOL would possibly try to handle Ebola with less than BSL4.

We've known that for decades now. We've had Ebola outbreaks before. We had to know BSL-2 wouldn't cut it going in.

In other words, trying to contain Ebola with BSL-2 is a token gesture. Barely better than going naked. Pointless.

So either this is all fake, or they know we are so utterly fucked they can't actually do anything about it.

I say again, you CANNOT contain a BSL-4 infectious agent under BSL-2 standards. I'm sure the freaking CDC knows this.

Therefore it's either fake and not Ebola, or it is Ebola and it's beyond containment.

You can't set up BSL-4 level containment in an infected place after the fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31058171


Add to this that clusterfuck OBOMACARE is EBOLACARE. We are all dead real soon
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63952251


wish it didn't have to be this way.

sad
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 03:49 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
The only way this can happen is when the virus is airborne.
Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2014 03:52 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
Thank you for posting Emerald!!


To be honest, THAT is the reason I thought this was all a hoax:

Only a FOOL would possibly try to handle Ebola with less than BSL4.

We've known that for decades now. We've had Ebola outbreaks before. We had to know BSL-2 wouldn't cut it going in.

In other words, trying to contain Ebola with BSL-2 is a token gesture. Barely better than going naked. Pointless.

So either this is all fake, or they know we are so utterly fucked they can't actually do anything about it.

I say again, you CANNOT contain a BSL-4 infectious agent under BSL-2 standards. I'm sure the freaking CDC knows this.

Therefore it's either fake and not Ebola, or it is Ebola and it's beyond containment.

You can't set up BSL-4 level containment in an infected place after the fact.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31058171


Add to this that clusterfuck OBOMACARE is EBOLACARE. We are all dead real soon
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63952251


You won't be without either a.) a $2000 suit or b.) keep away from infection.

To me it's not that hard to figure out.
 Quoting: deathpossum


Imagine you're the CDC and trying to contain this.

Two thousand dollars for every health care worker and support staff involved in Ebola?

Couldn't afford that if they wanted to, and it's already far too late.
deathpossum

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10/13/2014 03:53 AM
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Re: Attention Health care workers: Why health care workers are being infected with Ebola despite protective gear
The only way this can happen is when the virus is airborne.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63874541


Always the optimist, eh? RNA viruses are the quickest to mutate, and since no one is doing anything about it, nor quarantining, this will probably happen. Even the CDC, which is a bunch of derelict sub-par government paid scientist drop outs in Atlanta think it's possible.

And they just take their government check, do their government paycheck requirements, and clock out at 5pm.

They got this!
[Your rights are] "wherever we're willing to draw a line and say 'you cannot come across this line or I'll kill you.' That's where our rights are. If you don't understand that, folks, then it's beyond my capability to explain it to you. They will get away with whatever you let them get away with. And until you draw the line and you're willing to die for what you believe in, they will keep taking and taking and taking and taking, until there is no more left to take. Then, it's all gone, and you're a slave."
-bill cooper





GLP