Newton's Own destroys forever the theory of evolution. Ask me a question evolution adhearants

It makes perfect sense, as evidenced by you giving up arguing from your foundation built on sand and not the rock we stand upon. I will pray for you daily, my friend.

Your lack of any type of factual evidence in support of what you're saying makes your argument invalid.

Giving up on my theory? No. I gave you all the facts. You choose to ignore them (like all creationists). That is your problem, "my friend."

No, you have actually painstakingly proved, by your own words, the fallacy of your own argument!

My true friend.

I'll leave you with your denial. It shall be a better friend to you than I ever could.

:)

Thankfully to God, the truth does not require your belief. I'm content with the truth.

As I stated in my first post, I am not religious, nor do I subscribe to faith based whimsical ideas. YOU DO.

As a scientist I demand evidence.

The evidence indicates species appeared suddenly. There are no transitional states, NOT A SINGLE ONE!

Evolution of one species from another has never been observed and there is absolutely zero evidence it has ever occurred ,or even possibly could occur!



DO NOT come here and claim all of the evidence supports your lamebrain idea, NONE of the REAL evidence does, not one single piece of it. The evidence indicates the universe and life are the result of an intelligent, extremely selective process.

Of course I read what the poster wrote before and then I read your non sensical reply and jumped all over you like stink on shit for being a dumb ass , how's that .

I could put a dead fish under your bed and two weeks later you'd still be claiming you couldn't smell anything. I can't majikally change you from a retard to a genius, but I will tell you this, there isn't a single person who has ever lived of exceptional intelligence that denied the intelligent design of the universe. The bottom line here is "it takes intelligence to perceive intelligence". You don't see intelligence in creation because you lack the tools to see it

I'm only three pages in but felt the desire to toss a few coins. My apologies if this has been settled..



I understand where you're coming from with the whole unnecessary suffering thing. It feels messed up while we're here, but humor a different angle with me for a sec if you don't mind...

Newton's Own seemed to imply this at points, but on the other hand implied the opposite.. So there's mixed messages. What I'm talking about is the idea that maybe this life doesn't matter as much as it feels like it matters to us right now. If you knew for a fact that when you died you woke up somewhere else?

But the suffering.. I know. It sucks. What if it doesn't matter though? Think back to instances of suffering in your life. Was there a time when the suffering ended and you felt much better? Do you remember being a kid and getting punished or sent to your room or whatever? You may have been sad and it felt like it would never end. Then it did end. You ran outside to play again, not even caring about having been in the room.

Looking back as an adult we realize just how short and meaningless that punishment was, even though it felt so horrible then. What if we die and it's like being back to playtime, not even caring about past suffering. I don't hold a grudge with mom and dad. I doubt i'd hold a grudge with a god either.

Oh and another quick one is a comparison to a video game. Again entertaining the idea that maybe this life doesn't matter as much as we feel... Killing people and causing suffering feels like a terrible thing to do. However, in say Call of Duty video game millions of otherwise normal people don't mind killing other players. It doesn't feel like it matters. We don't get all sad for our teamates getting shot. After our characters die, we continue life. Maybe it's like being in a game we forget we are in. Maybe when we die we just put our bodies down and do something else.

These are just ideas for coping. I'm not trying to push you to a deity. I just like to think about ideas to make anything possible in theory and find ways to cope with life and death.

Good luck.

Where is your evidence for macro evolution? Abiogensis? Where is your proof that Earth is millions of years old? Where is your "common ancestry" proof? ( The human Y chromosome has twice as many genes as the chimpanzee Y chromosome and the chromosome structures are not similar at all, there goes that theory). Where is your evidence of transitional fossils?

What evolutionists fail to realize for some incredibly odd reason is that THEY are working off of claims with no evidence. And yet we are expected to blindly believe this evolution nonsense because it falls under "science". Nowhere in history has macro evolution or abiogenisis been observed. You have no "evidence", there is none. Not even any fossil records supporting your theory. Nothing. Zero. Nada.

I will leave you with this riddle by Perry Marshall:

1) DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism.

2) All codes are created by a conscious mind; there is no natural process known to science that creates coded information.

3) Therefore DNA was designed by a mind.If you can provide an empirical example of a code or language that occurs naturally, you’ve toppled my proof. All you need is one.

Oh, my goodness -- IDW! How have you been, man?

Perhaps you can come up with a logical answer to the proof that Newton's Own so thoroughly failed to address. To wit:

The Good Doctor's Prodigiously Pretentiously Pompously Perspicaciously Pedagogical Pediatric Pontine Tumor Proof

Here, again, is a real observation that requires explanation despite the believer's cowardice. On occasion children and adolescents can develop a rather nasty tumor of the brain stem, particularly the metencephalon, or pons. It is infiltrative and not amenable to surgery, radiation, or chemotherapy. The latter two therapies merely prolong the ultimate decline.

The decline? As with real estate, the watchword for the central nervous system is "location!" The tumor destroys the descending voluntary pathways and centers for the cranial nerves which enervate facial musculature whilst preserving the sensory pathways. The child progressively losses control of her body up to her eye muscles which allows some rudimentary communication. Since the trigger for consciousness is located in the more rostral ventral midbrain or mesencephalon, she remains conscious throughout the months of decline. During this deterioration, she retains sensation and consciousness. She feels every ulcer, every pain; she remains completely aware of her condition and decline.

Eventually, on a tracheostomy, she will succumb usually to an infection.

This is not only a real case, it is all too frequent.

This is a case of Unjustified Suffering unless you or anyone else can find some manner in which to justify it. Notice that I do not attack the death--people die. Perhaps she was destined to be the next Celine Dion. . . . It is the extent and severity of the suffering that renders it Unjustified Suffering. What did the child do to deserve it? Consider then why Josef Mengele passed easily from a stroke while swimming. Why did he apparently deserve a far easier passage?

Perhaps imagine a Heaven and a Hell--dream up a reward and punishment that will somehow magically balance the books, so to write? The problem remains the extent and severity of the suffering. If die she must, far quicker and less-severe methods do end a tyke's existence. Forced listening of country-western music, for example. Children do, unfortunately, ask what the did wrong to be punished by such a condition. What "reward" balances it? Is it greater than that obtained by children who die of leukemia, car accidents, and falling masonry? Why? Furthermore, that one imagines a Mengele horribly tortured throughout eternity--something involving fish hooks and Patsy Cline--does not justify the extensive and severe suffering of the child. Finally, if some grand argumentum ad ignorantiam of a "reward" exists, why do not the children who die of the less-horrible leukemia and steam rollers deserve it?

Since No Alleviation of her Unjustified Suffering occurred, we are left with Five Possible Choices regarding deities:

1. No Deity Exists
2. A Deity Exists and He is Evil
3. A Deity Exists and He is Incompetent
4. A Deity Exists and He is Irrelevant
5. A Deity Exists and He is Some Combination of 2-4

All are, of course, free to choose from any one of the five.

Any thoughts?

The simplest life is fossilized in the oldest rocks. Furthermore OP, you seem to accept micro-evolution. If you accept that, you accept evolution.

Sure, appreciated.



Understood. But since we're trapped in this part of the design, that design seems...well, ridiculously faulty, and if *I* with my ridiculously limited intellect can come up with a more humane design for this part of the journey, than surely He can, too. Thus, leading back to the five possibilities.



Again, I can see your point. But if there is no point to the suffering, that all that happens is a lingering, slow, painful death of the child, the pointlessness seems truly overwhelming -- particularly given the supposed infinite powers of the Deity in question. There are no end of examples of this.



For someone destined to become an adult, I can sort of see your point. For one destined to experience nearly *nothing* but suffering and then a brutal end, I don't -- and we lack any evidence demonstrating that such suffering has any positive merits whatsoever, I must question the Grand Design.



But those of us *within* the game know differently. We know the suffering of others, we know friends or family or lives cut tragically short by events utterly out of human control. If you discovered that all those Call of Duty pixels were real, with families and dreams and aspirations, and felt pain and died as you blew them away, would you continue to play?

Then why excuse the Deity, as He continues to?



I appreciate that, and it does remain food for thought.



You, too.

Last Edited by 74444 on 07/09/2014 10:11 PM

I just finished reading and I hope you read my post a few blocks up. I suppose 2-4 could be chosen depending on belief systems and personal right/wrong.. But I think a 6. Would be justified IMO. If a deity is running a world that doesn't matter in the scheme of things, is it evil to permit suffering in that world? I don't know.. Diff people may have diff answers.

Yeah, I've been wrestling with that proof for a long time. But if the world 'doesn't matter,' that fits in squarely with #4.

And since the suffering is unjustified, I think it is evil to permit it -- or, rather, to not fix the obvious design flaw.

Lol sorry I responded again too soon. You're right. If I could know they felt the pain I wouldn't be able to.

If there's a deity, maybe this world doesn't matter AND he's not infinitely powerful. Who knows. I'm enjoying this discussion. Thanks.

Oh thank you god, the greatest serial killer of all time, for killing my family and torturing me!!!

A few points I would like to make here. belief in the intelligent design of the universe is based on pure logic. I don't believe we as humans can comprehend everything, the nature of the creator being one of those things. We see ourselves as the smartest species on the planet, and not even that is based on real science. What if the creator is to us as we are to single celled microorganisms. Do you think single cell organisms understand us and why we do the things we do?People tend to create images and ideas they can relate to within the context of their observation and understanding, so they see the creator as a being similar to themselves. They judge the creator based on human experience. it is simplistic to view everything in terms of right and wrong or good and evil. Without suffering, joy would have no meaning, and without death there could be no life. Because we cannot understand why cruel things happen to good people does not mean it is without purpose. For millennia humans have understood duality. Coreligionists tend to wish to portray the creator as a representative of 'good' and 'righteousness', but they cannot see their expectations are selfish. What is good for you is bad for someone or something else. Nature is about balance, not good and evil.

yo where's Nachos at

Yes. I, neither.



Indeed -- which slides into 'A Deity exists and He is Irrelevant.' However, given the big ol' Universe we apparently exist in, I can see that. There's a lot to look over.





I, too, and thank you as well.

Without pain, hard work and suffering you can't truly appreciate life and what you have.

I however don't accept nor condone the atrocities talked about on this page and I used to question things presented in that list.

How could our God allow such things to happen, but then I remember it's a drop in a bucket compared to eternal life. And we are all eternal if we have a soul.

Okay. I can grant that for the purposes of discussion.



That seems to slide close to the 'mysterious ways' defense, which I think fails on a number of levels.



Of course not.



Again, I do not make the argument that *no* suffering should exist. Certainly people learn from suffering -- witness the child and the hot plate. But the proof specifically states 'unjustified suffering' for that very reason -- and one cannot deny that much unjustified suffering exists, and seems to be a cornerstone of the way Reality has been manufactured, if manufactured it has been.



And I can understand that, too -- but that leads us inexorably back to the five possibilities. If it is about balance, and somehow the child with the pontine tumor must suffer to balance some book somewhere, which we can only extrapolate through faith, what does that say about the design of reality, itself? And suddenly we're right back to the five possibilities.

How do any of us know that the things we think we experience are real? If you were going to do quality control on a machine, you would expose it to stresses and see how it holds up and responds. I have often complained that social Darwinism promotes the most evil and ruthless of men myself. Maybe it's for a greater purpose. Maybe the shit rises to the top where it can be skimmed off

We don't.

I never gave it much of a though or thought about it that way and it directly relates to me. I've been working on cars and engines for years. Thanks for that

My fishpond parable and my use of "you" implied to everyone, me included. All of us a those fish with limited abilities, we use what, 7% of our brains, to "decude" our own certainties, science, which actually updates and the wind changes and is never constant, and scientists, professing themselves wise and patting themselves on the back and receiving awards as the very SMARTEST of the fish became FOOLS.

For there is a greater truth in the word of God, more tangible and perfect in only the way of God can manifest that they overlooked or for evil gain suppressed. Woe unto you Lawyers, who did not enter yourselves but also hindered those who would have entered on their own! Woe unto the supressors, powers and principalities that will be destroyed by Jesus' Only Second Coming!

You can know it all if you study now! What believers do you think, being mortal, will be studying these matters in the millennial kingdom as mentioned in revalation 20? Those who believe, but need the meat, the truth, the full word, because Jesus is the Word of God and You must Learn the Word FULLY to be WITH the word. Read your bibles! Ask question? We can all learn together! I will say if I don't know. This must be a collective effort for God has revealed this to me.

So come to me and let us begin!

God is not the author of confusion.

Since as far back as I can remember when I was still trying to learn to control basic biological functions I have been conscious of the fact that what I did was being noticed and having an effect on everyone else. If I cried while playing in the yard, mother would come out to see what was wrong and neighbors would walk over to see what happened. i reasoned that everything I did and even thought was having a very real effect on everything else. I always thought it was some sort of test.

I came to the conclusion that I was somehow responsible for my own existence and the things I did determining the nature of it. I don't claim to understand why the guiltless suffer while the cretins ride the wave of prosperity, but I do know this, the cretins are far less satisfied than the impoverished, and you are far better off having suffered than having inflicted suffering. It's not karma I am speaking of, it is the here and now, because the evil know that eventually the payment is going to come due and so do the good.

Awesome post. I have to admit I am more satisfied and happy than I have ever been, and I don't have much (in terms of our society). I have skills and i'm real and honest, but material things are lacking.

If I hadn't gone through what i've gone through I would never have had the appreciation I have. Relationships, jobs, hard physical labor laying pipe, fixing cars it makes me stronger to learn how to deal and move on. Get er done.

I gave up on trying to understand how they get away with what they do. I also believe they will get theirs because God is real and they will have to answer one way or the other, although I have no idea what that punishment will be.

god is not the author of confusion!!! (but ignore the dozens of contradictions in the bible and ignore the fact that most humans are more moral and just than the god they worship)

I will tell you a mystery, so remember this: Did you know that some of your sins are ascribed to other men? Evil men who control over half the worlds wealth leaving 8 billion people to scrabble for the leftovers and commit crimes of desperation, theft even murder to live and eat and survive.

DO YOU THINK ALMIGHTY GOD IS A FOOL!

The sin is ascribed to where it BELONGS. Many live a life of suffering from vaccines and GMO's and Flouride and wi-fi radiation, cell radiation HAARP and Jesus only knows what kind of manipulation.

God knows who the blame lies with. Each is accountable for his sins but BELIEVE IN THE GRACE OF ALMIGHTY GOD AND DO NOT THINK OF HIM AS A HEARTLESS FOOL, OR, WORSE, AN IGNORANT ONE!

Forbid it, Almighty God!

Humble your heart to him, through his son Jesus Christ and repent and recognize your need for a saviour and Jesus PROMISES us he will give us new sight and senses, new hearing, a loving heart, a more fulfilled life. CHOOSE him.....simple.......and awake.

Newton's Own Nightmare