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Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?

 
KFinn  (OP)

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07/02/2014 12:05 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
Are you all that weak that you would rather run away and avoid facing and smashing real evil?

Why would Christians want to 'sleep' while the real fight is going on? Why wouldn't you want to fight to the end and ensure all evil is gone?

How can you call yourself a true Christian when you pray to avoid the biggest spiritual fight and hope you will be a part of the rapture? Have you ever faced true evil?

Why are you so scared when GOD is on your side? Are you scared to fight the good fight because deep down you know you are not a true Christian?

For me, I'm here till the end. Bring it on, I am not scared. I want to make sure all evil has left this planet.

I am not scared of dying and I am not scared of living?

I am here to fight the good fight to the very end - so bring it on.
 Quoting: KFinn


[link to luke-alive.bravehost.com]
 Quoting: The REAL 51:50


Thank you for sharing your story with us and I believe everything you witnessed to be the truth.

I created this thread as a question and discussion for all Christians worldwide and to provoke some real thought on the topic of rapture. Your story would be very helpful to this discussion.
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-GLP-Christian-

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07/02/2014 12:08 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
the ones who needed rapture
already ran away
the rest of us will occupy til He comes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56144605

Thanks AC for your comment.

I pray to GOD that I can stay here and fight to the very end because I truly believe I have the strength and need to protect those who cannot help themselves.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only human who prays to stay and fight to the end. hf
 Quoting: KFinn


Well that's contrary to what you've been told.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Only the worthy are being raptured anyway and those that are worthy are those that are saved.

You morans should look up the Day of the LORD, it won't be no bloody picnic, also do read the book of Revelation, check what actually happens during this time.

I mean hail as big as talents and you want to stick around here when that falls?

A talent weighed between 20 and 40 kilos:
[link to simple.wikipedia.org (secure)]

This is what it looks like when hail that weigh maybe 100 grams fall:

and some smaller hail:


have fun with the talent sized hail.

God is recalling his armies to basically shell the planet with his artillery. As I said read up on the Day of the LORD and what happens in the Book of Revelation, there's very earth shattering stuff happening and you don't want to be standing where God will shoot his artillery.

Also you morans should read and figure it out:
Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Earth will not be a planet to stick around.

Also check this series as to why:
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
starts with one and goes up to at least 24.

You don't want to stick around when God is angry. You will see why when his wrath comes.
There's a reason they all hide:
Re 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Re 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Re 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

the enemy is not going to be all "yeah screw you God, we will smash you, yeah!" they will be hiding in their tombs a.k.a. bunkers, and no you're not going to be fighting, you're not going to steal glory from God.

Figure it out already morans.
Get saved wretch: [link to biblebelievers.com]
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The Jihad Triangle: [link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

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Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 12:12 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
We don't choose what the Bible says. We simply read it and believe it. Did Noah want there to be a flood? We don't know. But we do know that he obeyed God and avoided the judgement that fell on the rest of the world.

Did Lot want to stay in Sodom? There's some indication that he was hesitant to leave. The angels had to physically make him leave and also his wife looked back:

15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

Genesis 19 King James Bible

The Bible clearly teaches 2 future returns of Jesus Christ. One for his body the Church and the other for the judgement of the entire world:

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Titus 2 King James Bible

The blessed hope is that hope that Jesus will come and rescue us from this wicked place. That is not a hope to be ashamed of. In fact, everyone who has this hope is purified and cares less and less about this place:

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1 John 3 King James Bible

But before he appears, he must come for his own body, the church which is the salt and light of the world, the place where the Holy Spirit resides. The evil that is going to break forth simply cannot do so until Christ's body is taken out of the world, for it is what is restraining the revealing of the wicked one who will oppose God himself:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

note 2 events. Editor.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Thessalonians 2 King James Bible

If you rightly divide the King James Bible, you will see that this event called the rapture, where Christ comes first for his own body before the Day of The Lord, is CLEARLY TAUGHT in the Scriptures.

Rather than asking why we want to LEAVE this wicked place, you should be asking yourselves why you would want to STAY in this wicked place. Jesus already told us the answer:

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Is your treasure piled up here on the earth? You know you cannot take it with you right? Better send it on ahead like Jesus told you to do:

1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods. 2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward. 3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed. 4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses. 5 So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord? 6 And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty. 7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore. 8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light. 9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

Luke 16 King James Bible

People who look forward to the return of Christ are simply doing what the Bible tells us to do. Rather than criticizing those of us who look forward to being rescued from this wicked world, you should examine your own heart to find out what's holding you here:

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 John 2 King James Bible

Just like me you should be saying "come Lord Jesus". That indeed is a BLESSED HOPE!

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Revelation 22 King James Bible

[link to www.brotherjohnf.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57915699


I do not understand which part of that teaches 2 returns or pretrib rapture.
KFinn  (OP)

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07/02/2014 12:19 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
...

Thanks AC for your comment.

I pray to GOD that I can stay here and fight to the very end because I truly believe I have the strength and need to protect those who cannot help themselves.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only human who prays to stay and fight to the end. hf
 Quoting: KFinn


The rapture is a gift to belivers at the end of times, the tribulation is a last chance for non believers to save their souls.

so, why not pray for it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 297849


Thanks for your comment AC. I am putting the question out there because I am truly asking for the opinion of others.

The way I see it is that Christians are given the option of whether to stay or avoid the tribulation.

For me, I would choose to stay to fight evil and protect my family and friends. I also want to protect Earth and by the way, I'm not a 'Greeny', I just love where I live.

I personally have faced evil and won. It's not pretty, however I'm strong enough to face more if I have to, especially when it comes to my children.
 Quoting: KFinn


The bold text is 100% your own imagination. I don't say that condescendingly but as a point of fact.

Our only choice is whether or not we repent and believe and to daily take up our cross and die to ourselves.

The rest is in God's hands. Jesus said AFTER the tribulation of those days, the sun and moon will go dark...and then He will appear. This is after they hand us over to be persecuted and put to death and hated for Christ's sake. I don't think we get to skip the great tribulation but it is scriptural that we do miss the wrath/vials.
 Quoting: Donkey Jaw


Thank you for you comments Donkey. However I have to agree to disagree with the word 'imagination'. I would prefer you to call it 100% curiosity.

I am a mother of 3 sons so as my basic principle I would want to stay here to firstly ensure my children were safe in the end times. It's primal instinct, I can't help it.

Secondly, I want to be here to help anyone who has a chance of reaching GOD, they can. If I could help it, the last thing I would want to do is save myself before giving 100% effort into helping others.
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Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 12:27 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
"I do not understand which part of that teaches 2 returns or pretrib rapture."

Do you see 2 events described here:

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Titus 2 King James Bible

1. blessed hope

and

2. glorious appearing

And here, 2 events:

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2 King James Bible

1. our gathering together unto him

and

2. the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

[link to www.brotherjohnf.com]
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 01:39 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
Yes but our great hope is the redemptive work of Christ and we will be with him but it doesn't say anything about before the tribulation..
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 02:02 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
Are you all that weak that you would rather run away and avoid facing and smashing real evil?

Why would Christians want to 'sleep' while the real fight is going on? Why wouldn't you want to fight to the end and ensure all evil is gone?

How can you call yourself a true Christian when you pray to avoid the biggest spiritual fight and hope you will be a part of the rapture? Have you ever faced true evil?

Why are you so scared when GOD is on your side? Are you scared to fight the good fight because deep down you know you are not a true Christian?

For me, I'm here till the end. Bring it on, I am not scared. I want to make sure all evil has left this planet.

I am not scared of dying and I am not scared of living?

I am here to fight the good fight to the very end - so bring it on.
 Quoting: KFinn


sure your not afraid of a lion as long as its in its cage,
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 02:03 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
because life ruled by idiot selfish man sucks. GOD is the only one that can provide true happiness and peace.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 02:12 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
Are you all that weak that you would rather run away and avoid facing and smashing real evil?

Why would Christians want to 'sleep' while the real fight is going on? Why wouldn't you want to fight to the end and ensure all evil is gone?

How can you call yourself a true Christian when you pray to avoid the biggest spiritual fight and hope you will be a part of the rapture? Have you ever faced true evil?

Why are you so scared when GOD is on your side? Are you scared to fight the good fight because deep down you know you are not a true Christian?

For me, I'm here till the end. Bring it on, I am not scared. I want to make sure all evil has left this planet.

I am not scared of dying and I am not scared of living?

I am here to fight the good fight to the very end - so bring it on.
 Quoting: KFinn


sure your not afraid of a lion as long as its in its cage,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 59048915


B-I-N-G-O!
(s)he has only fought the caged animal - just wait until it is set free.... Folks talk big when there is a barrier of protection. That barrier WILL be removed. When the Bride is celebrating at the wedding feast, that barrier will be no where to be seen......
SaintVron

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07/02/2014 02:32 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
! Thess4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 02:52 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
The same reason that the Christ prayed to his father in heaven alone, when he bled tears from his eyes due to grieve, and asked his father "please father take this cup away from me", pertaining to his fear of going through with the horrors that lay before him, though he bravely conquered, and that is why the King will return the way it has been spoken.
The REAL 51:50

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07/02/2014 03:01 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
! Thess4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 Quoting: SaintVron


! Thess4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 Quoting: SaintVron


That's right. The dead went up first. The living will go up after the tribulation. Matthew 24: 29-31 KJV

Christians need to put down their Tim Lahaye books and read a dictionary and look up the word "Remain."

Don't assume you know the meaning.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 03:25 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
OP, I pray that you will change yo heart and beilve in and accept Jesus in your heart - I pray for all non-believers.
The tme is NOW to repent and accept Jesus and believe in Him before the wrath of God begins and it Will begin SOON.

Christians believe in Jesus and His promise of salvation and eternal life with Him in Heaven. There is Nothing better, nothing - than being with Jesus for all eternity.
Jesus lives inside of every believer in Him as does the Holy Spirit. But we live in faith as humans on earth.
To actually SEE and HEAR Him for eternity - to live in His Kingdom forever is our goal.

Christians aren't running away from anything.
We bravly tell others of the Gospel, knowing that we'll be condemned for doing it by many people. Many, even today, are martyred simply because they are Christians. This happens in mostly in the Middle East and Africa where Muslims kill Christians every single day - just simply for being Christian.
Cowards ? Hardly !

The only One who can fight evil and win is Jesus Christ.
Period.
We have victory over sin and death through our belief that He suffered vicious beatings with flesh tearing whips,was silent through cruel mockings, endured nails being hammered into His hands and feet and on cross, forgave them all, died, rose from the dead 3 days later, and now sits at the right hand power of God.
WHY did He DO that - Why did He go through all of that torment for us.
Because He loves us.

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Children will be raptured.

Do not be left on this earth without them.
It will be unrecognizable after the rapture. Many will die from all that occurs during the first 6 of 7 trumpet judgements. Read the Book of Revelation. If you don't have a Bible, it's available onine.
It will become so horribly bad, bitter waters, litle food to eat worldwide, a false anti-Christ will come to decive many into thinking he is Jesus - he will perform false miracles and make life on earth seemingly barable via making his number, 666 or his name written on foreheads or right hands to be able to buy and sell anything. Those who refuse his mark will he killed or will suffer starvation. Better for them to die martyrs or starve for God will not allow any in His Kingdom with that mark. An angel of God will also warn the entire earth of this as well.

How can a loving God allow all of this to happen some might ask.
The same God who gave His only Son to us, to die for our sins so that we have the right to be called children of God and through our belief in His Son, Jesus, we have eternal life. Yes, it's that simple.
The same God who patiently waits until the last person turns to Him and believes in Jesus before He allows the rapture and following wrath to occur.

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
2 Peter 3:9
God loves everyone - He wants ALL to believe in His Son Jesus. But not all will.
Until that number of believers is reached, a number that only God knows, the rapture will not occur.

God/Jesus gave us signs to watch for when His return is near in both the Old and New Testiments.

He has given mankind Plenty of time to turn to Him in All of those years.
He has warned through us, His believers, to tell as many as possible to turn to Hima nd belive in Him and be saved.

Not one person left behind after the rapture and after the angel gives the warning about the antichrist, can say that they did not hear of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Not one.
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."
Matthew 24:14

Those adults left behind will have knowledge of Jesus, but refused to believe in Him. After the rapture, some will become Christians and will have eternal life in Heaven when they die from all that will occur. Those who die as martyrs for refusing the mark of the beast, the antichrist, will rule with Jesus for the millinium of peace after Jesus fights and wins over evil at the Battle of Armageddon.
See ? Only Jesus can fight and win over all evil.
After the millinium of peace, the devil is set free for a short time, is captured again and sent with his demons to the Lake of Fire forever, never to return. And the rest of the believers in Jesus will reign with Him forever.

Please read the Bible - Google end times Scriptures to see how, Spripurally, that we Are in the end times and that the rapture will be SOON.

I pray along with my brothers and sisters in Christ, that there will be as many unbelivers as possible so that as many as possible are saved from the coming wrath of God.
It's your choice - Heaven or Hell.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 03:58 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
cause their life sucks
Oath

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07/02/2014 04:35 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
Are you all that weak that you would rather run away and avoid facing and smashing real evil?

Why would Christians want to 'sleep' while the real fight is going on? Why wouldn't you want to fight to the end and ensure all evil is gone?

How can you call yourself a true Christian when you pray to avoid the biggest spiritual fight and hope you will be a part of the rapture? Have you ever faced true evil?

Why are you so scared when GOD is on your side? Are you scared to fight the good fight because deep down you know you are not a true Christian?

For me, I'm here till the end. Bring it on, I am not scared. I want to make sure all evil has left this planet.

I am not scared of dying and I am not scared of living?

I am here to fight the good fight to the very end - so bring it on.
 Quoting: KFinn


I would not call it weak or say they are scared. It has to do with believing every word of God as truth.

The translation or rapture as most people call it today is seen as a truth to those who believe.

At the last trump, we will meet Christ after those who are dead in Christ have been raised.

I believe we will escape the wrath of God, see Noah and Lot as examples. I believe we will see tribulation and trials or tests, see Job.

These things will come to pass, God has said it, therefore it is done. I just wish to be with Christ Jesus, if I pass from this world or if I am translated to meet him in the clouds. Either way is fine with me.


But I will wait and believe in that blessed hope.
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 06:45 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
so, you want to stay and fight....you don't think that jesus can win his own battle?
or you just don't really want to be the blessed bride of Christ. the tribulation isn't gonna be some resistance movement like on tv. evil earth dwellers are gonna be plagued and tortured as god tried to get them to turn to him, and they are gonna destroy every believer without a mark to get revenge......so if that's what you really want, god will give it to you....but he's gonna ask you some time why you rejected him when he called.
SaintVron

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07/02/2014 07:06 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
so, you want to stay and fight....you don't think that jesus can win his own battle?
or you just don't really want to be the blessed bride of Christ. the tribulation isn't gonna be some resistance movement like on tv. evil earth dwellers are gonna be plagued and tortured as god tried to get them to turn to him, and they are gonna destroy every believer without a mark to get revenge......so if that's what you really want, god will give it to you....but he's gonna ask you some time why you rejected him when he called.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48323033


The truth is we all join the fight with Jesus in the cloud we are the 200000000 man army that flies over walls and rooftops destroying everything. Jesus isn't going to leave out the faithful he is the lord of armies and he has a purpose for all of us his little brothers. We band of brothers we are the faithful, chosen, and the elect that can't be tricked, have faith we will be by his side making sure no unclean thing makes it through. Moses SaintVron
Anonymous Coward
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07/02/2014 07:59 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
the ones who needed rapture
already ran away
the rest of us will occupy til He comes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56144605

Thanks AC for your comment.

I pray to GOD that I can stay here and fight to the very end because I truly believe I have the strength and need to protect those who cannot help themselves.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only human who prays to stay and fight to the end. hf
 Quoting: KFinn


The rapture is a gift to belivers at the end of times, the tribulation is a last chance for non believers to save their souls.

so, why not pray for it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 297849


Post some scripture that proofs there is a pri tribulation rapture? I don't think there is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56879519

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture View

When dealing with doctrinal issues, sometimes some truths are right there in the Bible in front of our noses, and it's easy for us to understand them. Other truths are more challenging and require us to look at the whole chapter, book, or bible in order to fully grasp the concepts. When any one verse dealing with a particular doctrinal issue appears to stand apart from other similar truths, we should suspect that there may be an interpretational or possibly a translational issue involved that needs further research. I believe the doctrine of the rapture is one such difficult truth.

The word 'rapture' is not listed in the English bible. But it is listed in the Latin Vulgate bible, written by Jerome in the early 400's AD. The word there is 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' , which translated into English means 'rapture'. It is found here in the English bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be *caught up* together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In English bibles, 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' is transliterated into 'caught up'. That happens sometimes during the translation process to try to communicate the point more familiarly.

The original Thessalonian manuscripts however were written in Greek. There were actually no 'English' words at all in the original bibles, including the word 'bible' itself. And the original Greek word for 'rapture' is listed in English script as 'harpazo', which means 'to rapture up into the air', or to 'snatch away'.

It was this original Greek term 'harpazo' that Jerome later translated into Latin as 'raeptius', which was later translated into English as 'rapture'. These terms all mean the same thing: 'to be caught up'.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to www.raptureready.com]

Below are some reasons I believe the Pre-Tribulational Rapture doctrine is likely to be the most Biblically accurate view:

1. Imminancy. We're supposed to look, watch, and wait for Jesus' imminent return. Nothing has to happen before Jesus returns for us. (1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:20; 1 Thes. 1:10; Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; 1 Peter 1:13; Jude 21)
The non-Pre-Trib positions ALL require certain things to happen 1st before Jesus can return. Things like the Antichrist's 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount right on or next to the Muslim Dome of the Rock, the 7 Seals of Judgment, etc. These things destroy imminancy.

[link to www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk]

2. Dispensation of the Tribulation. The Bible states that Daniel's 70th Week/Tribulation/Great Tribulation/Time of Jacob's Trouble/Day of the Lord/Wrath of God are all things related to God's dealing with Israel getting ready to restore it back to His grace. (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Ezek. 20:22-44; 22:13-22) This is not a time for the Church, but a time for "those who dwell on the earth"- meaning non-Christians. (Rev. 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8, 12, 14; 17:2, 8)

3. Dispensation of the Church. The Church is promised to be taken up to the Father's House. (John 14:1-3 Compare this verse with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) How can that be if the Church remains here on earth thru the 2nd Coming? Going up to meet Jesus in the air at the moment He's coming down to finish off the Antichrist and his armies is not the same as the Church going up to heaven. There is no mention of Jesus going back to heaven in the Bible after His 2nd Coming. And I don't think He's going to open heaven and come down with all His angels just to pick up the Church in the air, then do a mid-flight U-turn & go back up to heaven. Then grab some horses and linens for the Church. Then do another U-turn and come back immediately to finish off the Antichrist. The Bible doesn't say that.

Also the Church is a Mystery. (Eph. 3:1-13; 2:11-22) That means a new Truth has just been revealed. The Old Testament prophets knew nothing about it or it's role in God's plan. But they did know a lot about the Tribulation period. This is further evidence that the two ages: the Old Testament Israel era & the New Testament Church era will not overlap. Right now, the Jews and Gentiles are co-mingled in the Church, (Eph. 2-3) but this can't be when you look at God's 70 Weeks program for Israel in Daniel. The two must be separated prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, which is the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation.

The Church has also been promised deliverance from the TIME of God's wrath. That means, "out of the time period" of the Tribulation. (1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:9; Rev. 3:10)

4. Time Gap Needed. A time period is needed in heaven to handle some things that will take place with the Church after the rapture.

The Judgment Seat of Christ (or 'Bema' in Greek) needs to happen to Christians in the Church in heaven before they return with Jesus to the Battle of Armageddon. (2 Corinthians 5:10) This is when they get their rewards for good Christian service (or not)

The Bride of Christ (the true Assembly(Church) has to be in heaven to get ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7-10) as I mentioned earlier. They can't do this if they don't go up to heaven before the 2nd Coming.

The 24 Elders around the Throne in heaven appear to be very representative of the Church. If this is so, the Church must be in heaven prior to the opening of the 1st Seal of the Scroll of the Tribulation- the opening kick-off if you will. (Revelation 4:1-5:14) In the New Testament, the elders represent the Church. (Acts 15:6; 20:28) In the Old Testament, the elders were always 24 in number, and appointed by King David to represent the entire priesthood. In Jesus' new Millennial Kingdom, Christians will assume the title of the Priesthood. (Revelation 20:6)

Where are all the mortals? If all the Christians are raptured up at the 2nd Coming of Christ, who will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom? All the bad guys will be gone because of the Battle of Armageddon and the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment. Raptured Christians will have immortal bodies and will no longer pro-create. (sorry) But the Bible clearly states that there will be mortal Christians who survived the cataclysm and who would carry on mortal life on earth. (Isa. 65:20-25). And, the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment would also be impossible if all the good guys were already raptured. There would be no need for a separation of the two groups of mortals. This is an impossible situation for the Post-Tribulation Rapture proponents.

5. The Presence of the Holy Spirit. The 'man of lawlessness'/Antichrist/beast is said to be held back for now. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) The 'restrainer of evil'/Holy Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) is at work in the Church right now and will leave with it in the Pre-Trib rapture. This will then free the Antichrist to unleash his demonic power on the world soon after, which is the first Seal of Judgment to be opened in heaven after the rapture. The Pre-Trib view is the only view that can work here.

6. Here are some comparisons between the Rapture & the 2nd Coming:

Rapture: is a translation or resurrection coming where the Lord comes FOR His Church/Bride (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and taking her to His Father's House. (John 14:3).
2nd Coming: Jesus is coming WITH his saints/Church/Bride to set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 yrs. (Rev. 19; Zech. 14:4-5; Matt. 24:27-31)

Rapture: is a Mystery, a newly revealed truth (1 Cor. 15:51-54; Col. 1:26) not known to the Old Testament prophets, and making it a separate event from anything they have foreseen. The New Testament talks about the Rapture of the Church and the 2nd Coming.
2nd Coming: was predicted in the Old Testament. (Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4) The Old Testament of Israel just talks about the 2nd Coming.

More comparisons between the two:

Rapture: Translation of all believers
2nd Coming: No translation of anyone

Rapture: Translated saints go up to heaven
2nd Coming: Translated saints return to earth

Rapture: Earth is not judged at that time
2nd Coming: Earth is judged and righteousness is restored

Rapture: Imminent and sign-less
2nd Coming: Follows exact signs and days according to
Daniel and Revelation prior to.

Rapture: Is for Believers only
2nd Coming: Is for everyone

Rapture: Happens before the Day of Wrath
2nd Coming: Concludes the Day of Wrath

Rapture: Has no reference to Satan
2nd Coming: Satan is bound up for 1000 yrs.

Rapture: Jesus comes in the air only
2nd Coming: Jesus comes down to the earth

Rapture: Only Christians see Him
2nd Coming: Everyone sees Him

Rapture: Tribulation then begins
2nd Coming: Millennial Kingdom begins

7. Practical Results of a Pre-Trib Rapture. Some people think the Pre-Tribbers have illusions of escapism that will destroy their witness and faith if the Pre-Trib Rapture doesn't play out. They think Pre-Tribbers don't care about anything or anyone because they think they have a 'Get out of Jail Free' card for the Tribulation. However, they might not realize that Jesus will reward Christians for good service at the Judgment Seat of Christ later in heaven after the rapture. If there is no good Christian service, there may be little or no rewards waiting for them after the rapture.

The fact that Jesus could return today for us should be a good motivator for living a good Christian life and doing good works for Christ.

Also, knowing that loved ones: friends and family, who aren't Christians will be left behind after the rapture to face the coming cataclysm of the Great Tribulation should be enough to motivate them to try to lead as many people as possible to Christ before it's too late.

If the Pre-Wrath or Mid-Tribulation or Post-Tribulation Rapture view was accurate, a simple study of Daniel's 70th Week would then show you exactly when Jesus is returning for the 2nd Coming. All you have to do is note when the Antichrist's 7 year peace treaty with Israel is signed, or note just when the Antichrist's abomination of desolation in the new Jewish Temple happens, and you can compute the exact day of our Lord's 2nd Coming. No imminancy there. No need to always live a righteous life there. You could then just sin and sin and wait around until the last day before Christ's return and then repent and be good. Based on my understanding of the Bible, I just don't think it works like that.

And whoever said that we must suffer through the Tribulation to be purified?, or to do good works in it to get saved?

Ephesians 2:7-9
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What about everyone who has died already who didn't suffer any hardships at all? By some people's definition, they are not saved because they have suffered no great tribulation. That just doesn't make any sense. Jesus said that we would be delivered from the time and hour of God's judgment to "those who dwell on the earth." His great judgment is for those who have rejected Jesus, not for His children. Satan has given Christians plenty of tribulation over the years, and continues to do so even today.

[link to www.persecution.com]

Revelation 3:10 (KJV)
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

That is the 'Blessed Hope!'

Titus 2:13 (KJV)
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

Maranatha!

Peace.

[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.raptureme.com]
[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to raptureforums.com]
[link to www.raptureforums.com]
mrdlaw4jc
User ID: 58253895
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07/02/2014 08:28 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
the ones who needed rapture
already ran away
the rest of us will occupy til He comes
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56144605

Thanks AC for your comment.

I pray to GOD that I can stay here and fight to the very end because I truly believe I have the strength and need to protect those who cannot help themselves.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only human who prays to stay and fight to the end. hf
 Quoting: KFinn


Well that's contrary to what you've been told.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Only the worthy are being raptured anyway and those that are worthy are those that are saved.

You morans should look up the Day of the LORD, it won't be no bloody picnic, also do read the book of Revelation, check what actually happens during this time.

I mean hail as big as talents and you want to stick around here when that falls?

A talent weighed between 20 and 40 kilos:
[link to simple.wikipedia.org (secure)]

This is what it looks like when hail that weigh maybe 100 grams fall:

and some smaller hail:


have fun with the talent sized hail.

God is recalling his armies to basically shell the planet with his artillery. As I said read up on the Day of the LORD and what happens in the Book of Revelation, there's very earth shattering stuff happening and you don't want to be standing where God will shoot his artillery.

Also you morans should read and figure it out:
Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Earth will not be a planet to stick around.

Also check this series as to why:
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
starts with one and goes up to at least 24.

You don't want to stick around when God is angry. You will see why when his wrath comes.
There's a reason they all hide:
Re 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Re 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Re 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

the enemy is not going to be all "yeah screw you God, we will smash you, yeah!" they will be hiding in their tombs a.k.a. bunkers, and no you're not going to be fighting, you're not going to steal glory from God.

Figure it out already morans.
 Quoting: -GLP-Christian-


You couldn't be more spot on. I don't think OP has studied the tribulation. What exactly will she fight with when all the guns are taken, you have to except anti christ to buy food? They start beheading people for their failure to worship the beast?

No.., there won't be much of a fight, it will be more like hiding anywhere you can so you don't get caught and eliminated. That would be if you're lucky. I'm sure if your captors can come up with any pleasurable use for you they will do it. Eating bugs and whatever you can manage to find and being hungry all the time. Not to mention Gods wrath. I think I'll pass!

We WILL return at the end of the tribulation with our Lord and THEN we see this evil overthrown.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 59799222
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07/02/2014 09:05 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
The rapture is often described by theologians as "the American doctrine" because it suggests a continuity with the distinctly American vision of God as a kind of cosmic bellboy who heaps blessings and rewards upon his followers as a reward for belief.

This doctrine, of course, doesn't make sense in third world countries where people follow Christ despite the lack of earthly blessings. Thus we find the rapture theology emerging primarily in America because many evangelicals cannot imagine faith in the context of hardship, tribulation or suffering.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33509203

I agree. This doctrine is pure american where everything has a price even faith. As long as God gives you nice things then you will have faith. If God does not deliver the "goodies" then their faith ends.


.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 58644501
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07/02/2014 09:44 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
Why do half of the Christian folks (I am an Independent Christ believer myself) believe in the rapture? It was made up stuff that was never a part of the original Scripture.

This is what happens when leaders and elite use real life events as a basis to mold whatever they want out of it.

"Don't believe in anything that comes from the mind of man, because he just might have been bat-poop crazy." - Myself 7/2/14
KFinn  (OP)

User ID: 55865398
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07/02/2014 11:48 PM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
Wow, thank you everyone for taking the time and effort to provide such clear and well thought out explanations on the question of Rapture.

The good thing is that you have all changed my mind regarding Christians who pray and hope for rapture are only looking for an easy way out. I now believe your prayers go a bit deeper than that.

It is interesting to see the many different theories around rapture on when it occurs and even if it is real or a man made invention. In this regard I am not convinced one way or the other. I do however believe in the end times and tribulation and that something will occur around some kind of rapture.

While you have all answered my questions, you have also raised many more. Ain't that the way! :)

Here is one of those questions.

If Satan is going to be locked up for 1,000 years, this is not a very long time. Wouldn't it make sense for GOD to leave some Christians behind to bear witness and testimony of the Tribulation and End Times so the horrors are never forgotten?

Once again everybody, thanks for taking my questions seriously and providing genuine and well thought answers.
For the latest on the Ukraine Crisis - automatically updated every 15 mins.

[link to www.rebelmouse.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 59870953
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07/03/2014 02:21 AM
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Re: Why Do Christians hope and pray for rapture?
Wow, thank you everyone for taking the time and effort to provide such clear and well thought out explanations on the question of Rapture.

The good thing is that you have all changed my mind regarding Christians who pray and hope for rapture are only looking for an easy way out. I now believe your prayers go a bit deeper than that.

It is interesting to see the many different theories around rapture on when it occurs and even if it is real or a man made invention. In this regard I am not convinced one way or the other. I do however believe in the end times and tribulation and that something will occur around some kind of rapture.

While you have all answered my questions, you have also raised many more. Ain't that the way! :)

Here is one of those questions.

If Satan is going to be locked up for 1,000 years, this is not a very long time. Wouldn't it make sense for GOD to leave some Christians behind to bear witness and testimony of the Tribulation and End Times so the horrors are never forgotten?

Once again everybody, thanks for taking my questions seriously and providing genuine and well thought answers.
 Quoting: KFinn



Very glad to hear that your view of why Christians pray for the rapture is a better one and that you genuinely want answers.
Truly the best answers are in the Bible.
A catchy acronym someone came up with is :
Basic
Instruction
Before
Leaving
Earth

About your second question.
You're right a thousand years is not a very long time, esp. that :
"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." 2 Peter 3:8

Also, the best way to answer it is to read Revelation 20-22.
( To read all of that book in the Bible would be best as you'll understand it all much better if you do. )

Here is another very good read of why there will be a Millennium :
[link to www.lamblion.com]





GLP