"BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized! | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50473212 United States 01/10/2014 07:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
AMEBIX
User ID: 33824395 United States 01/10/2014 07:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 49377259 United States 01/10/2014 07:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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talkstory
User ID: 52708011 Thailand 01/10/2014 08:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 8996836 United States 01/10/2014 08:04 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: snark :this1: I believe is correct, sadly. Raised by an attorney who was a professional loophole-finder. Well maybe your right, usually when something sounds too good to be true, it is. law is absolute and has to be written absolutely, it means exactly what it says. "there shall be no penalty or fine imposed" Didnt scotus rule that the "penaly" is not a penalty but is actually a tax? That would be their loophole. it's the same thing with the income tax, YOU CAN OPT OUT OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM BY REDEEMING LAWFUL MONEY. They depend on ignorance and fear, unfortunately for too many people who have been living in or near these big cities for too long their courage and conviction is a long lost relative they have never met. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50473212 United States 01/10/2014 08:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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shyrlymyrly
User ID: 52748478 Sweden 01/10/2014 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Same thing is with taxes in America, you don't have to pay them, but if you don't pay you're going to jail. The point is that the judge decides what's right or wrong. For example if judge thinks abortions are okay then the judge can rule on that and make abortions legal. This was just an example. It depends on the judge and interpretation of the law. Obamacare is very vague, it can imply anything and over rule other laws. I think theoreticlly it is possible to escape Obamacare, but in practice it's impossible. I'm a bibletard, sorry for the inconvenience. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52705233 Mexico 01/10/2014 08:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50342249 United States 01/10/2014 08:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Gdchappy Well maybe your right, usually when something sounds too good to be true, it is. law is absolute and has to be written absolutely, it means exactly what it says. "there shall be no penalty or fine imposed" Didnt scotus rule that the "penaly" is not a penalty but is actually a tax? That would be their loophole. it's the same thing with the income tax, YOU CAN OPT OUT OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM BY REDEEMING LAWFUL MONEY. They depend on ignorance and fear, unfortunately for too many people who have been living in or near these big cities for too long their courage and conviction is a long lost relative they have never met. yeah? how the hell does one "redeem lawful money"? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50473212 United States 01/10/2014 08:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
WoodyMcWood
User ID: 45768148 United States 01/10/2014 08:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yeah right....Just like taxes are voluntary. This video was horrible and the guy needs to take a chill pill. No one is going to take you seriously if you're shouting, out of breath, and saying f*ck every two seconds. pfft. "Life Is Wood" |
woowoochic
User ID: 22374259 United States 01/10/2014 08:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50473212 United States 01/10/2014 08:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
WoodyMcWood
User ID: 45768148 United States 01/10/2014 08:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage..." This is only referring to those who PROVIDE Insurance. Period. Unless you are starting your own Health insurance company you are still required to have insurance under the A.C.A. Sorry. That's just the way it is. "Life Is Wood" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 51353269 United States 01/10/2014 08:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It seems like we the people, aren't getting too many breaks theses day's, doesn't it? Quoting: Gdchappy Actually, you should be saying "It seems like we the people have become a weak society that doesn't even want to fight totalitarian communism. We don't care about being controlled; in fact we actually prefer having the government put its boot on our throats." There...that sounds much better to me than the pity game of acting like we don't get breaks. We chose this society We allow this to happen Only change that will ever occur is when the mass comes together and forces change We elect these people We act like it's a 2 party system when it's clearly 1 system of power over the people We don't care about taking wealth and trying to redistribute until we find out that it actually hits every single one of us in a negative way We allow the government to keep people in poverty. We like to give fish instead of teaching how to fish We allow the MSM to keep racism in our face on a daily basis. We listen to the MSM....when we know 90% of what they feed our ears and minds is fabricated with an agenda; and completely false. Look in the mirror......this is all your fault. I look in the mirror and know I am also to blame for this country. STOP ACTING LIKE A VICTIM!!! |
Whiskey Boy
User ID: 13559462 United States 01/10/2014 08:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | just want to get your opinions on whether or not this is true. If it is, that would be totally awesome. Quoting: Gdchappy [link to youtu.be] Here are the links to the sources- [link to dcclothesline.com] [link to www.law.cornell.edu] [link to go] away/opinion-conservative/2014/01/federal-law-says-you-can-opt-out-of-obamacare-nor-can-you-be-penalized-if-you-do-2786280.html [link to fellowshipoftheminds.com] From the Cornell site reads: No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs. but I think is supposed to be read like: No (individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer) offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs. Basically none of those entities in the parentheses that offer insurance will not be penalized for not participating. Sadly, I don't think they're referring to individual citizens. But I'm not a lawyer, so who knows. Because I *am* a finder of loopholes and I could *easily* read it the way you posted. Law applies to all people equally (supposedly). If these corporations (read: people as of citizens untied ruling) are exempt, then, it would follow that all people are exempt. But hey, I'm not a lawyer, surely they've safeguarded citizens using the citizens united defense. |
WoodyMcWood
User ID: 45768148 United States 01/10/2014 08:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | just want to get your opinions on whether or not this is true. If it is, that would be totally awesome. Quoting: Gdchappy [link to youtu.be] Here are the links to the sources- [link to dcclothesline.com] [link to www.law.cornell.edu] [link to go] away/opinion-conservative/2014/01/federal-law-says-you-can-opt-out-of-obamacare-nor-can-you-be-penalized-if-you-do-2786280.html [link to fellowshipoftheminds.com] From the Cornell site reads: No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs. but I think is supposed to be read like: No (individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer) OFFERINGgroup or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs. Basically none of those entities in the parentheses that offer insurance will not be penalized for not participating. Sadly, I don't think they're referring to individual citizens. But I'm not a lawyer, so who knows. Because I *am* a finder of loopholes and I could *easily* read it the way you posted. Law applies to all people equally (supposedly). If these corporations (read: people as of citizens untied ruling) are exempt, then, it would follow that all people are exempt. But hey, I'm not a lawyer, surely they've safeguarded citizens using the citizens united defense. OFFERING is the key word here. This law only applies to insurance companies and the people that PROVIDE insurance coverage. From Black's Law Dictionary: What is OFFER? 1. To bring to or before; to present for acceptance or rejection; to hold out or proffer; to make a proposal to; to exhibit something that may be taken or received or not. Morrison v. Springer, 15 Iowa, 340; Vincent v. Woodland Oil Co., 105 Pa. 402, 30 Atl. 991; People v. Ah Fook, 62 Cal. 494. 2. To attempt or endeavor; to make an effort to effect some object; in this seuse used principally in criminal law. Com. v. Harris, 1 Beg. Gaz. R. (Pa.) 457. 3. In trial practice, to “offer” evidence is to state its nature and purport, or to recite what is expected to be proved by a given witness or document, and demand its admission. Unless under exceptional circumstances, the term is not to be taken as equivalent to “introduce.” See Ansley v. Meikle, 81 Ind. 200; Lyon v. Davis, 111 Ind. 384, 12 N. E. 714; Harris v. Tomlinson, 130 Ind. 420, 30 N. E. 214. Law Dictionary: [link to thelawdictionary.org] Last Edited by WoodyMcWood on 01/10/2014 08:28 AM "Life Is Wood" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52738804 United States 01/10/2014 08:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "No offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act..." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2822082 But it does not read correctly if the parenthesis are taken out. Parenthesis clarify a statement and are independent of the words of the rest of the sentence; therefore, when you take out the parenthesis and the words between them, the sentence should still be able to be read and be grammatically correct. This is what I remember, never made lower than a 90 in English classes. Perhaps someone else can chime in? They way I interpret it is that anyone already offering and participating in individual or group health insurance is not required to go to the exchanges. The law mandates that everyone has to have insurance. Of course, this will all change when the employer mandate kicks in. Then many will learn their policy is substandard and their insurance company will cancel it, forcing many onto the exchanges. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 19200631 United States 01/10/2014 08:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 19200631 United States 01/10/2014 08:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.healthcare.gov (secure)] If you are applying for an exemption based on: coverage being unaffordable; membership in a health care sharing ministry; membership in a federally-recognized tribe; or being incarcerated: You have two options-- You can claim these exemptions when you fill out your 2014 federal tax return, which is due in April 2015 You can apply for the exemptions using the appropriate form: Note: If you get an exemption because coverage is unaffordable based on your expected income, you may also qualify to buy catastrophic coverage through the Marketplace. This may be more affordable than your other options. |
Citizenperth
User ID: 52735892 Australia 01/10/2014 08:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | awaiting phens take on this.. would make a good round table chat too..... It's life as we know it, but only just. [link to citizenperth.wordpress.com] sic ut vos es vos should exsisto , denego alius vicis facio vos change , exsisto youself , proprie |
Whiskey Boy
User ID: 13559462 United States 01/10/2014 08:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | just want to get your opinions on whether or not this is true. If it is, that would be totally awesome. Quoting: Gdchappy [link to youtu.be] Here are the links to the sources- [link to dcclothesline.com] [link to www.law.cornell.edu] [link to go] away/opinion-conservative/2014/01/federal-law-says-you-can-opt-out-of-obamacare-nor-can-you-be-penalized-if-you-do-2786280.html [link to fellowshipoftheminds.com] From the Cornell site reads: No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs. but I think is supposed to be read like: No (individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer) OFFERINGgroup or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs. Basically none of those entities in the parentheses that offer insurance will not be penalized for not participating. Sadly, I don't think they're referring to individual citizens. But I'm not a lawyer, so who knows. Because I *am* a finder of loopholes and I could *easily* read it the way you posted. Law applies to all people equally (supposedly). If these corporations (read: people as of citizens untied ruling) are exempt, then, it would follow that all people are exempt. But hey, I'm not a lawyer, surely they've safeguarded citizens using the citizens united defense. OFFERING is the key word here. This law only applies to insurance companies and the people that PROVIDE insurance coverage. From Black's Law Dictionary: What is OFFER? 1. To bring to or before; to present for acceptance or rejection; to hold out or proffer; to make a proposal to; to exhibit something that may be taken or received or not. Morrison v. Springer, 15 Iowa, 340; Vincent v. Woodland Oil Co., 105 Pa. 402, 30 Atl. 991; People v. Ah Fook, 62 Cal. 494. 2. To attempt or endeavor; to make an effort to effect some object; in this seuse used principally in criminal law. Com. v. Harris, 1 Beg. Gaz. R. (Pa.) 457. 3. In trial practice, to “offer” evidence is to state its nature and purport, or to recite what is expected to be proved by a given witness or document, and demand its admission. Unless under exceptional circumstances, the term is not to be taken as equivalent to “introduce.” See Ansley v. Meikle, 81 Ind. 200; Lyon v. Davis, 111 Ind. 384, 12 N. E. 714; Harris v. Tomlinson, 130 Ind. 420, 30 N. E. 214. Law Dictionary: [link to thelawdictionary.org] 1. Start LLC offering health insurance 2. Opt out of obamacare 3. ??? 4. Profit |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52669735 United States 01/10/2014 08:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52738804 United States 01/10/2014 08:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: snark :this1: I believe is correct, sadly. Raised by an attorney who was a professional loophole-finder. Well maybe your right, usually when something sounds too good to be true, it is. law is absolute and has to be written absolutely, it means exactly what it says. "there shall be no penalty or fine imposed" Didnt scotus rule that the "penaly" is not a penalty but is actually a tax? That would be their loophole. Yeah, that is a problem for Obamacare. You see, the problem with that is all tax laws MUST originate in the House. Obamacare originated in the Senate. So Obamacare is unconstitutional per the changing of the "words". If this case ever gets back to the Supreme Court on this little issue, then they will have to deem it unconstitutional or re-address the individual mandate and the "fine". Unless the dems(and courts) consider totally stripping a bill that originates in the House of all language it contains and reinserting a total different bill as "originating in the House". I sure don't, but they do like to play their games with the constitution and laws. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52288590 United States 01/10/2014 08:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52738804 United States 01/10/2014 08:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Actually it is common knowledge that it really says you only need to purchase insurance if it is affordable,if not you don't have to participate. Affordable care act......... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19200631 Google it...... Yes, but who determines affordable? The government did. Up to 30% of your income they deem affordable. They also have set up exchanges offering subsidies for affordable coverage for everyone. They do not factor in deductibles and co pays when they define affordable. Just the premiums. |
WoodyMcWood
User ID: 45768148 United States 01/10/2014 08:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Interested_1 From the Cornell site reads: No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs. but I think is supposed to be read like: No (individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer) OFFERINGgroup or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs. Basically none of those entities in the parentheses that offer insurance will not be penalized for not participating. Sadly, I don't think they're referring to individual citizens. But I'm not a lawyer, so who knows. Because I *am* a finder of loopholes and I could *easily* read it the way you posted. Law applies to all people equally (supposedly). If these corporations (read: people as of citizens untied ruling) are exempt, then, it would follow that all people are exempt. But hey, I'm not a lawyer, surely they've safeguarded citizens using the citizens united defense. OFFERING is the key word here. This law only applies to insurance companies and the people that PROVIDE insurance coverage. From Black's Law Dictionary: What is OFFER? 1. To bring to or before; to present for acceptance or rejection; to hold out or proffer; to make a proposal to; to exhibit something that may be taken or received or not. Morrison v. Springer, 15 Iowa, 340; Vincent v. Woodland Oil Co., 105 Pa. 402, 30 Atl. 991; People v. Ah Fook, 62 Cal. 494. 2. To attempt or endeavor; to make an effort to effect some object; in this seuse used principally in criminal law. Com. v. Harris, 1 Beg. Gaz. R. (Pa.) 457. 3. In trial practice, to “offer” evidence is to state its nature and purport, or to recite what is expected to be proved by a given witness or document, and demand its admission. Unless under exceptional circumstances, the term is not to be taken as equivalent to “introduce.” See Ansley v. Meikle, 81 Ind. 200; Lyon v. Davis, 111 Ind. 384, 12 N. E. 714; Harris v. Tomlinson, 130 Ind. 420, 30 N. E. 214. Law Dictionary: [link to thelawdictionary.org] 1. Start LLC offering health insurance 2. Opt out of obamacare 3. ??? 4. Profit It's worth a shot, but I am not sure what is required to start a Health insurance company and now I am sure it is even more complicated. "Life Is Wood" |