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"BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52738804
United States
01/10/2014 08:58 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
So let's become that group and start offering our own health insurance...$1 per year premium, $500,000 deductible per incident, $20 million annually deductible....

Works for me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52669735


Unfortunately, there are laws governing insurance companies. Mainly, you have to have the money backing your company before you can operate. Hope you have millions upon millions. If you do, sign me up.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19200631
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01/10/2014 09:05 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Actually it is common knowledge that it really says you only need to purchase insurance if it is affordable,if not you don't have to participate. Affordable care act.........

Google it......
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19200631


Yes, but who determines affordable? The government did. Up to 30% of your income they deem affordable. They also have set up exchanges offering subsidies for affordable coverage for everyone. They do not factor in deductibles and co pays when they define affordable. Just the premiums.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52738804


Actually it looks like 9.5% to me......

[link to wallstcheatsheet.com]

“Affordable” health insurance, as defined by the legislation, means that premiums can cost no more than 9.5 percent of an employee’s income.
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2014 09:08 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Another generation that thinks they can fight the system and win. (sigh). Many have tried and failed. Good luck. You will also be beaten down and defeated because "THEY DON'T GIVE A F. WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE CORRUPTION".
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2014 09:15 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
It says those OFFERING insurance do not have to participate. Not those RECEIVING, ie, you and I.
One of Us
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01/10/2014 09:23 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Is it possible that Obamacare was merely designed to release Insurance companies from the obligations of their current contracts to the insured.

Any new insurance contracts might have some "small print" to look at that makes it a much better deal for "them" and not the individual?
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2014 09:24 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
House.gov resource:

[link to uscodebeta.house.gov]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52479442
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01/10/2014 09:26 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
It says those OFFERING insurance do not have to participate. Not those RECEIVING, ie, you and I.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51767944


No it doesn't:


§18115. Freedom not to participate in Federal health insurance programs
No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs.
(Pub. L. 111–148, title I, §1555, Mar. 23, 2010, 124 Stat. 260.)
References in Text
This Act, referred to in text, is Pub. L. 111–148, Mar. 23, 2010, 124 Stat. 119, known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. For complete classification of this Act to the Code, see Short Title note set out under section 18001 of this title and Tables
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2014 09:34 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
[link to docs.uscode.justia.com]

42 USC § 18115

Actually the language used in legal documents is very specific, just as may means you can and shall means you will or must.

When it says "No individual," it means no individual.

Otherwise it would have been punctuated differently as in "No individual company, business, non-profit entity, OR blah blah, blah. It means individuals.

42 USC § 18115 is separate portion of the law from Obamacare which is 42 USC § 300gg

Law is literal. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. LOL
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2014 09:37 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
They are calling it a TAX, healthcare tax. And the IRS is in charge of it which makes it a legal TAX and not a goobermint run healthcare program.
The constitution say's that we can be charged a tax for healthcare services.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 51767944
United States
01/10/2014 09:39 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
It says those OFFERING insurance do not have to participate. Not those RECEIVING, ie, you and I.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51767944


No it doesn't:


§18115. Freedom not to participate in Federal health insurance programs
No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs.
(Pub. L. 111–148, title I, §1555, Mar. 23, 2010, 124 Stat. 260.)
References in Text
This Act, referred to in text, is Pub. L. 111–148, Mar. 23, 2010, 124 Stat. 119, known as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. For complete classification of this Act to the Code, see Short Title note set out under section 18001 of this title and Tables
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52479442


See bold or explain how that menas US citizens.
PIR

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01/10/2014 09:39 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Nobody gets out of this.

Get ready for the chip in your hand.

Take it or go to jail.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34980389
Argentina
01/10/2014 09:40 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
just want to get your opinions on whether or not this is true. If it is, that would be totally awesome.


[link to youtu.be]

Here are the links to the sources-

[link to dcclothesline.com]
[link to www.law.cornell.edu]
[link to go] away/opinion-conservative/2014/01/federal-law-says-you-can-op​t-out-of-obamacare-nor-can-you-be-penalized-if-you-do-2786280​.html
[link to fellowshipoftheminds.com]
 Quoting: Gdchappy


The law has never required youto pparticipate or impose a penalty if you do not, but the tax is not considered a penalty believe it or not. That's what the SC heard.

Thread fail
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 51767944
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01/10/2014 09:40 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
[link to docs.uscode.justia.com]

42 USC § 18115

Actually the language used in legal documents is very specific, just as may means you can and shall means you will or must.

When it says "No individual," it means no individual.

Otherwise it would have been punctuated differently as in "No individual company, business, non-profit entity, OR blah blah, blah. It means individuals.

42 USC § 18115 is separate portion of the law from Obamacare which is 42 USC § 300gg

Law is literal. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13709116


Ah, I see it now. The comma......
BoilMyChillz
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01/10/2014 09:43 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
A couple pieces of info I found interesting.

1. I don't remember where, I think it was from a post on GLP but I could be wrong. All exemptions or assistance Will have to be paid back in 2015 or 2016. So all the Vunerables with assistance in paying the ACA will be screwed in a couple years.

2. Funny Loop Holes, this is less than 20% of the artice, and here is the link.

[link to www.forbes.com]

Exemption Loopholes?

When laws are passed, clever avoidance strategies often follow. Let’s consider hardship exemption number three. A person could delay payment to their utility company, receive a shut-off notice, pay their bill before their service is disconnected, and use the shut-off notice to apply for a hardship exemption. I checked to see if this would negatively impact ones credit score. The answer depends on whether your utility company reports shut-off notices to the credit bureau. Then, I called a major utility company and was told they only report disconnect information to the credit bureau, but not shut-off notices. Therefore, as long as the customer pays their bill before the utility company disconnects their service, they could conceivably use the shut-off notice as a hardship exemption without impacting their credit score or having their service interrupted. However, if enough people did this, I could envision Congress passing a law requiring utility companies to report all shut-off notices to the credit bureau. More regulation often begets more regulation.

Let’s consider exemption number eight. You go to the doctor or hospital, incur a medical expense not covered by insurance, and fail to pay it. Of course, this would affect your credit score. But how would the federal government determine if you’re reason for nonpayment was due to financial inability? Will they audit your cash flow for the previous two years? In short, there would have to be a massive expansion in federal government employment to properly monitor the tremendous number of rules and regulations contained in Obamacare. Remember, the population of America is over 316 million!


Anyways, we are just discovering the mammoth amount of things in this bill, though I do believe that there have to be some laws that coincide with the negation of participation in the ACA. Keep it up, knowledge is power, that's why they SPAM bullshit on the news and in books as much as possible.
rockypaul
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18425240
United States
01/10/2014 09:51 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Has anyone ever heard of this law before?
 Quoting: Gdchappy


OP ?
know YOU know what the supreme assholes DID
along with CHANGING the obumma care LAW-

MILLIONS ARE REFUSING
so IT DIES.


simply don't log on
and let them send their fine.

you need it down the road due to CATASTROPHIC occurance ?
sign on then.


google how many STATES REFUSED this bs.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44695765
United States
01/10/2014 09:54 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
I think the word, " offering", is the key word. If you have private insurance you don't get ombacare.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 49825113
United States
01/10/2014 10:17 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Has anyone ever heard of this law before?
 Quoting: Gdchappy


OP ?
know YOU know what the supreme assholes DID
along with CHANGING the obumma care LAW-

MILLIONS ARE REFUSING
so IT DIES.


simply don't log on
and let them send their fine.

you need it down the road due to CATASTROPHIC occurance ?
sign on then.


google how many STATES REFUSED this bs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18425240


I like this. UNITED we CAN send a message!

Thank you. :)
Chuckie Joe

User ID: 43994092
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01/10/2014 10:23 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Fact is, when you get to court, they can interpret it any freakin' way they wanna!

The rug (of legal and rightful Constitutional jurisprudence) has been pulled out from under our feet folks, if you haven't yet noticed.
Yes, as through this world I've wandered
I've seen lots of funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.

And as through your life you travel,
Yes, as through your life you roam,
You won't never see an outlaw
Drive a family from their home.
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2014 10:32 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Once again Obamabots grasp at a small ray of hope from their messiah. Only to have it once again vanish into thin air.
Éireann

User ID: 30344782
United States
01/10/2014 10:32 AM

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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
It seems like we the people, aren't getting too many breaks theses day's, doesn't it?
 Quoting: Gdchappy

Anyone got the original document?

Seriously, those parenthesis MUST exist in the original sentence in order for the syntax to be divined to mean parentheses. Algebra is Algebra folks. Works for language too.

Yeah.. I know I'm banging my head against a brick wall, but at this point it's just more of the same - pain.

Last Edited by Eireann on 01/10/2014 10:33 AM
Eireann~

Eisteacht le gra! ~ArunaLuna (Translation from Gaelic: "Listen to Love!")

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson, from a Letter to John Taylor written in 1816

"Unfortunately, it is in the nature of man to tinker - even with immutable truth. Thus, we must be ever vigilant... - James Munford

*~~~~~~*
I do not give negative Karma. I believe that all opinions are worthy of debate and discussion. Free speech is essential to the growth and advancement of each individual and all of Humankind.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 45272634
United States
01/10/2014 10:49 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Nobody gets out of this.

Get ready for the chip in your hand.

Take it or go to jail.
 Quoting: PIR

i'll bust everyone out of jail except you, weenie boy.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 37686313
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01/10/2014 11:52 AM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Like they are going to follow the law! Sure. They are *THE* law breakers.

The fact is this 42 USC is for 42 USC not for DemocratCare.

REPEAL DEMOCRAT CARE! Its is *THE* *ONLY* way...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52669735
United States
01/10/2014 12:37 PM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
I think it's time for me to become a non "PERSON."
Chrit

User ID: 51395437
United States
01/10/2014 12:46 PM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
You do not have to buy the “federal” policy, you do have to maintain a policy that is compliant which can be obtained outside the federal exchanges through state or private companies.

Without the Law OP listed this would be a single payer system.

This is the law you are missing to fill the info gap.

Little Snip; (a) Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage
An applicable individual shall for each month beginning after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for such month.

(b) Shared responsibility payment
(1) In general
If a taxpayer who is an applicable individual, or an applicable individual for whom the taxpayer is liable under paragraph (3), fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1 or more months, then, except as provided in subsection (e), there is hereby imposed on the taxpayer a penalty with respect to such failures in the amount determined under subsection (c).

Bla bla bla...



[link to www.law.cornell.edu]
I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw.

We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three.
Rabid Wolf

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01/10/2014 01:05 PM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
Considering how much the assholes-that=be have manipulated that shitty law since it was signed, I am going to choose to interpret it as an opt-out clause that I will use.
freethinkingguy

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01/10/2014 02:03 PM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
I believe as we all know...just because it's a law written doesn't mean that the government shall follow that law. It's the Law of Eric Cartman ..."I do what ever I want!" and you can keep it ""period""
BattlesightZero

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01/10/2014 02:06 PM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
If this is true we need to open the book on this one everybody.
 Quoting: Gdchappy


nailed
BattlesightZero

YOU, and only YOU are responsible for maintaining the balance of power between you and the rest of the semi-sentient beings in this world. You cannot disclaim or delegate that responsibility; it is a function of being a living, breathing "adult" in this world. If you can't manage yourself on those terms, someone else *will* manage you on their terms. Your terms are irrelevant. Buy a rifle; prepare to defend yourself. If you don't, what happens is *your* fault. Period.
Chrit

User ID: 51395437
United States
01/10/2014 02:21 PM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
I believe as we all know...just because it's a law written doesn't mean that the government shall follow that law. It's the Law of Eric Cartman ..."I do what ever I want!" and you can keep it ""period""
 Quoting: freethinkingguy


Supreme Court: Unconstitutional Laws Not Laws At All


[link to www.law.cornell.edu]

Sadly we need to pick the fight to win the fight, even when blatantly obvious.

divide15

Last Edited by Chrit on 01/10/2014 02:22 PM
I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw.

We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three.
boo radley

User ID: 47754583
United States
01/10/2014 02:22 PM
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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
My "government" will hurt me if I refuse to let them help me.

Where are the Hate Rallies?
Éireann

User ID: 30344782
United States
01/10/2014 02:23 PM

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Re: "BREAKING NEWS" Federal law says you "CAN" opt out of Obamacare and "CAN NOT" be penalized!
You do not have to buy the “federal” policy, you do have to maintain a policy that is compliant which can be obtained outside the federal exchanges through state or private companies.

Without the Law OP listed this would be a single payer system.

This is the law you are missing to fill the info gap.

Little Snip; (a) Requirement to maintain minimum essential coverage
An applicable individual shall for each month beginning after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for such month.

(b) Shared responsibility payment
(1) In general
If a taxpayer who is an applicable individual, or an applicable individual for whom the taxpayer is liable under paragraph (3), fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1 or more months, then, except as provided in subsection (e), there is hereby imposed on the taxpayer a penalty with respect to such failures in the amount determined under subsection (c).

Bla bla bla...



[link to www.law.cornell.edu]
 Quoting: Chrit

Ok. As usual, your brilliance astounds me. Can't you put this in simple English for those of us who don't speak Legalese?

When you're finished with your brain, I'd love to be its recipient. Seriously.
Eireann~

Eisteacht le gra! ~ArunaLuna (Translation from Gaelic: "Listen to Love!")

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson, from a Letter to John Taylor written in 1816

"Unfortunately, it is in the nature of man to tinker - even with immutable truth. Thus, we must be ever vigilant... - James Munford

*~~~~~~*
I do not give negative Karma. I believe that all opinions are worthy of debate and discussion. Free speech is essential to the growth and advancement of each individual and all of Humankind.





GLP