Can ISON hit the Earth? WARNING math inside | |
pepe3797
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lackofvoice
User ID: 34191718 United States 12/01/2013 06:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. A chacun sa vue Quaestione Auctoritatem |
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Starknight
User ID: 50636087 Venezuela 12/01/2013 06:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You sure there are no variables on your estimations? 1 John 1–3._ 1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. @Starknight921 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50893551 United States 12/01/2013 06:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50892049 France 12/01/2013 06:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. Op I checked the math and it looks all good to me. It still won't hit earth though, because there is nothing that could redirect 9% of ison's energy. What are you thinking? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50892049 France 12/01/2013 06:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Shadow Beam
User ID: 50859091 New Zealand 12/01/2013 06:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. ok good math but theres something abit weird about saying 'we need it move' .....no WE dont need or want it to move it will WIPE US OUT!! |
Shadow Beam
User ID: 50859091 New Zealand 12/01/2013 06:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50892049 France 12/01/2013 06:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. ok good math but theres something abit weird about saying 'we need it move' .....no WE dont need or want it to move it will WIPE US OUT!! Lol I think we live in a world full of suicidal people...just shows how bad life has become that people are wishing for disaster. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50892049 France 12/01/2013 06:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3122434 Australia 12/01/2013 06:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. ok good math but theres something abit weird about saying 'we need it move' .....no WE dont need or want it to move it will WIPE US OUT!! No, we DO need it to wipe us out. Humans are a cancer on this planet. We need civilisatoin to start over, this one is completely f*cked. |
Sergman
(OP) User ID: 43941380 Canada 12/01/2013 07:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's a bullshit estimate anyway. Ison was much bigger than that. And if so ops calcs go out the window. It would take much more force to pull ison off its orbit. That's not my estimate but NASA's. And it can be from 7,000,000,000 kg to 7,000,000,000,000 kg. Anyway the math does not change if only a small chunk with a fixed mass will be directed to us. The bigger the mass of the comet the smaller the portion of the total comet energy needed to push the chunk towards the Earth. :bdance: |
Sergman
(OP) User ID: 43941380 Canada 12/01/2013 07:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 48916418 United Kingdom 12/01/2013 08:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. ok good math but theres something abit weird about saying 'we need it move' .....no WE dont need or want it to move it will WIPE US OUT!! No, we DO need it to wipe us out. Humans are a cancer on this planet. We need civilisatoin to start over, this one is completely f*cked. RIP dude :( oh, youre still with us? |
UnmannedAerialPilot
User ID: 50323572 United States 12/01/2013 08:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's a bullshit estimate anyway. Ison was much bigger than that. And if so ops calcs go out the window. It would take much more force to pull ison off its orbit. That's not my estimate but NASA's. And it can be from 7,000,000,000 kg to 7,000,000,000,000 kg. Anyway the math does not change if only a small chunk with a fixed mass will be directed to us. The bigger the mass of the comet the smaller the portion of the total comet energy needed to push the chunk towards the Earth. Last I saw it appeared to be spinning. Doesn't the Conservation of Angular Momentum have an effect on such an event? The greater concern would be if it did, in fact, start spinning after perihelion. That would, in effect, cause a LOT of changes to the projected path, ESPECIALLY if it starts breaking into chunks... |
A r c t u r u s
User ID: 50859846 Germany 12/01/2013 08:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Parts of it could. Thread: ISON is Spreading Out Fast. There will come a time when you believe everything ends. This will be the beginning [Louis L'Amour] ~ A r c t u r u s |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 50900478 France 12/01/2013 08:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's a bullshit estimate anyway. Ison was much bigger than that. And if so ops calcs go out the window. It would take much more force to pull ison off its orbit. That's not my estimate but NASA's. And it can be from 7,000,000,000 kg to 7,000,000,000,000 kg. Anyway the math does not change if only a small chunk with a fixed mass will be directed to us. The bigger the mass of the comet the smaller the portion of the total comet energy needed to push the chunk towards the Earth. Where is this force or energy going to come from? that will magically make it to be directed at us? It's going to pass by 40,000,000 miles above us... |
Ghost-Houndz
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Sergman
(OP) User ID: 43941380 Canada 12/01/2013 08:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's a bullshit estimate anyway. Ison was much bigger than that. And if so ops calcs go out the window. It would take much more force to pull ison off its orbit. That's not my estimate but NASA's. And it can be from 7,000,000,000 kg to 7,000,000,000,000 kg. Anyway the math does not change if only a small chunk with a fixed mass will be directed to us. The bigger the mass of the comet the smaller the portion of the total comet energy needed to push the chunk towards the Earth. Where is this force or energy going to come from? that will magically make it to be directed at us? It's going to pass by 40,000,000 miles above us... The comet itself has enormous kinetic energy. All you need is a trigger (like interaction with the Sun) to release part of this energy. And this in fact what has happened. So now instead of one big comet moving in one direction we have lot of chunks. And the numbers show that they can easily be directed towards the Earth. All you need is a tiny portion of the original kinetic energy to do that. Just think of a grenade that explodes in the air. It will hit targets all around 360 degrees of it. :bdance: |
Sergman
(OP) User ID: 43941380 Canada 12/01/2013 08:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 47581945 United States 12/01/2013 08:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. Op I checked the math and it looks all good to me. It still won't hit earth though, because there is nothing that could redirect 9% of ison's energy. What are you thinking? Could a cme From the sun change its trajectory or some of the debris field? The magnetic field lines of objects are affected by cmes and some are saying that ison is electric |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34482807 United States 12/01/2013 08:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
marlborolightsplease
User ID: 48422593 United States 12/01/2013 08:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Sergman
(OP) User ID: 43941380 Canada 12/01/2013 08:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. Op I checked the math and it looks all good to me. It still won't hit earth though, because there is nothing that could redirect 9% of ison's energy. What are you thinking? Could a cme From the sun change its trajectory or some of the debris field? The magnetic field lines of objects are affected by cmes and some are saying that ison is electric I don't think CME can do that. Most likely it was a trigger that overheat the core of the comet and it caused the explosion. This is where the kinetic energy spreads between the chunks. :bdance: |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 49036140 Canada 12/01/2013 08:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The thing I find is this. If you look at the orbitals of the planets they all pretty much form a 'disc like' orbital path around the sun in a plane extending perpendicular from the rotation of the sun.. Ison came from below this rotational disc, and sling shot around coming ABOVE this rotation disc, so the debris 'shotgun pellets' are all shooting straight upwards. *HOWEVER* Many of these debris pieces also have greatly REDUCED velocity, which means they *MAY* be pulled down in an arc towards the disc - say out to Jupiter.. which will form a perpendicular orbital path intersecting the planets rotational orbit around the sun.. Which is basically saying that these pieces of debris could become a giant issue 2-3 or 5 years from now.. Here is an example orbit of the planets. [link to www.astro.virginia.edu] If you look at the following link [link to stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov] You can see the z-axis orbital path.. However what is *really* interesting is it will make a MAJOR SIGN IN THE HEAVENS about the 25-26th of December.. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31480840 United States 12/01/2013 08:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's a bullshit estimate anyway. Ison was much bigger than that. And if so ops calcs go out the window. It would take much more force to pull ison off its orbit. That's not my estimate but NASA's. And it can be from 7,000,000,000 kg to 7,000,000,000,000 kg. Anyway the math does not change if only a small chunk with a fixed mass will be directed to us. The bigger the mass of the comet the smaller the portion of the total comet energy needed to push the chunk towards the Earth. Where is this force or energy going to come from? that will magically make it to be directed at us? It's going to pass by 40,000,000 miles above us... Above us, huh? Made me think of this... [link to youtu.be] Embed please? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 49036140 Canada 12/01/2013 09:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 47581945 United States 12/01/2013 09:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am not an astronomer but have basic knowledge of Newton physics. My goal here is to estimate how much energy we need in order to change the course of Ison so it will hit the Earth. Quoting: Sergman So let's start. t: it takes 28 days for ISON to reach the Earth from Sun (2.4 x 10e6 sec) Se: closest approach to the Earth 63,000,000 km (6.3 x 10e10 m) Ss: distance from Earth to Sun: 149,600,000 km (1.5 x 10e11 m) Vi: speed of Ison 86000 m/s = 8.6 x 10e4 m/s m: estimated mass 7,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e12 g) to 7,000,000,000,000 kg (7 x 10e16 g) from [link to www.nasa.gov] , for our calculation we take lower number. angle between Earth - Sun - Projected Ison path atan(Se/Ss) = atan(6.3 x 10e10 / 1.5 x 10e11) = atan(0.2625) = 14.7 degrees This is how much the course of Ison or one of its debrees must be changed in order to hit the Earth. The speed we need to push Ison in perpendicular vector towards the Earth V = Se/T = 6.3 x 10e10 / 2.4 x 10e11 = 2.6 x 10e4 = 26000 m/s This is how much energy needed to do that: E = mVxV/2 = 7 x 10e12 x 6.76 x 10e8 / 2 = 2.4 x 10e21 Joels (1 kiloton of TNT equals to 5 x 10e12 Joels so we need 2.4 x 10e21 / 5 x 10e12 of kilotons = 4.8 x 10e8 kilotons = 30,000,000 Hiroshima bombs) It looks a lot but considering total Kinetic energy of Ison: 8.6x8.6x 10e8 x 7 x 10e12 / 2 = 259 x 10e20 = 2.6 x 10e22 Joels = 5.2 x 10e9 kilotons = 325,000,000 Hiroshima bombs we need only 9% of the total Ison energy to be redirected in order to change the course towards the Earth. It does not look a lot. Let's take only small chunk of Ison (we don't need the full comet for the disaster. For example for one Million of Hiroshima bomb we need 1/325 of Ison's mass thus it is enough to redirect 9%/325 = 0.028% of the total Ison energy to change the course of this chunk. Remember we used lowest mass estimation. So the number can be even less. Astromut and other experts! Am I wrong? If yes show where. Op I checked the math and it looks all good to me. It still won't hit earth though, because there is nothing that could redirect 9% of ison's energy. What are you thinking? Could a cme From the sun change its trajectory or some of the debris field? The magnetic field lines of objects are affected by cmes and some are saying that ison is electric I don't think CME can do that. Most likely it was a trigger that overheat the core of the comet and it caused the explosion. This is where the kinetic energy spreads between the chunks. No, I mean if there was a cme NOW that was earth directed that also hit comet ison.. Or it's debris. Could the cme push comet ison or debris field off its trajectory now if comet ison is electric? Or Push ison into an earth magnetic field line and pull it closer to earth? How much influence do the magnetic field lines have/ how far out do the magnetic field lines go? |