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Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider

 
Face Palmer
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11/15/2013 05:57 AM
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Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider

When Europe’s Large Hadron Collider (LHC) started up in 2008, particle physicists would not have dreamt of asking for something bigger until they got their US$5-billion machine to work. But with the 2012 discovery of the Higgs boson, the LHC has fulfilled its original promise — and physicists are beginning to get excited about designing a machine that might one day succeed it: the Very Large Hadron Collider (VLHC).

“It’s only prudent to try to sketch a vision decades into the future,” says Michael Peskin, a theoretical physicist at SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory in Menlo Park, California, who presented the VLHC concept to a US government advisory panel on 2 November.

The giant machine would dwarf all of its predecessors (see ‘Lord of the rings’). It would collide protons at energies around 100 teraelectronvolts (TeV), compared with the planned 14 TeV of the LHC at CERN, Europe’s particle-physics lab near Geneva in Switzerland. And it would require a tunnel 80–100 kilometers around, compared with the LHC’s 27-km circumference. For the past decade or so, there has been little research money available worldwide to develop the concept. But this summer, at the Snowmass meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota — where hundreds of particle physicists assembled to dream up machines for their field’s long-term future — the VLHC concept stood out as a favorite.

[link to www.scientificamerican.com]
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 06:01 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
There's a much less expensive option.

The space is awash with high energy particles. There are particles with much higher energy than 100 TeV. With even half of the money that's required to build a 100 TeV collider on earth, one could build space-based laboratories that utilize the naturally occurring very high energy particles.

Capture them, energy filter them and use them.
Face Palmer  (OP)

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11/15/2013 06:06 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
5000 years later they wonder why the fuck we dug mile wide circular tunnels
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 06:08 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
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11/15/2013 06:09 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
A very high powered hard on collider, that sounds like it really hurts.
Face Palmer  (OP)

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11/15/2013 06:09 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


I am upset? Sorry, I did not know. I question the importance of this, but I'm not upset.
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 06:10 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider

When Europe’s Large Hadron Collider (LHC) started up in 2008, particle physicists would not have dreamt of asking for something bigger until they got their US$5-billion machine to work. But with the 2012 discovery of the Higgs boson, the LHC has fulfilled its original promise — and physicists are beginning to get excited about designing a machine that might one day succeed it: the Very Large Hadron Collider (VLHC).

“It’s only prudent to try to sketch a vision decades into the future,” says Michael Peskin, a theoretical physicist at SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory in Menlo Park, California, who presented the VLHC concept to a US government advisory panel on 2 November.

The giant machine would dwarf all of its predecessors (see ‘Lord of the rings’). It would collide protons at energies around 100 teraelectronvolts (TeV), compared with the planned 14 TeV of the LHC at CERN, Europe’s particle-physics lab near Geneva in Switzerland. And it would require a tunnel 80–100 kilometers around, compared with the LHC’s 27-km circumference. For the past decade or so, there has been little research money available worldwide to develop the concept. But this summer, at the Snowmass meeting in Minneapolis, Minnesota — where hundreds of particle physicists assembled to dream up machines for their field’s long-term future — the VLHC concept stood out as a favorite.

[link to www.scientificamerican.com]
 Quoting: Face Palmer


As long as Europe is paying for it.....sounds good.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 06:11 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
A very high powered hard on collider, that sounds like it really hurts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45453076


You know us physicists have a thing for colliding hardons and black holes...
Face Palmer  (OP)

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11/15/2013 06:11 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
As long as Europe is paying for it.....sounds good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29696048


I don't think you can import things like this from China
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 06:12 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
As long as Europe is paying for it.....sounds good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29696048


I don't think you can import things like this from China
 Quoting: Face Palmer


I think a science of this magnitude will have to be an international effort like ITER, the fusion energy source project.
BadMoonRisen

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11/15/2013 06:13 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


Absolute fucking waste of time and money.

Big boys toys.
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present.

[link to www.inmomsbasement.com]

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 06:14 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
As Mr. Sulu would say "Oh My"




morning Face!

thank god it's Friday!
Face Palmer  (OP)

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11/15/2013 06:15 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
morning Face!

thank god it's Friday!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3631265


Tell me about it!
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 06:15 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They may have to trade in all the old ones on site first.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 06:17 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
One's the transmitter and one the receiving unit.

They're trying to send information through time.
UnmannedAerialPilot

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11/15/2013 06:57 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


Lies. Name one discovery in the LHC that has helped to improve upon the average persons life. How does anything they do help in the fight on world hunger? How many diseases are they curing? What was the great breakthrough on reversing the effects of radiation poisoning?

These are guys with brains much too large for their own good, and egos even bigger. If tesla were given the money these fools had, and granted the freedom to spend it however he wanted, we would be riding trains to the moon by now. These guys are just big kids with their daddy's credit card, and no sense of purpose, besides trying to prove godless theories on where we all came from.

Waste of time, space and of course taxpayer money, IMHO.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:07 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
Lies. Name one discovery in the LHC that has helped to improve upon the average persons life. How does anything they do help in the fight on world hunger? How many diseases are they curing? What was the great breakthrough on reversing the effects of radiation poisoning?

These are guys with brains much too large for their own good, and egos even bigger. If tesla were given the money these fools had, and granted the freedom to spend it however he wanted, we would be riding trains to the moon by now. These guys are just big kids with their daddy's credit card, and no sense of purpose, besides trying to prove godless theories on where we all came from.

Waste of time, space and of course taxpayer money, IMHO.
 Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot

hesright
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11/15/2013 07:11 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
5000 years later they wonder why the fuck we dug mile wide circular tunnels
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Are you talking about the unfinished one in Texas? It's a big one. Used to live not very far from it.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:15 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
Much better than paying even more Money for Weapons of Mass Destructions!

Pro Science!
pi

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11/15/2013 07:21 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
We're doomed

damned


tounge
eekers
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11/15/2013 07:22 AM

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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
daaaang! Isn't it big enough already?!!?!?

When I worked with the university some years ago, we were in touch with some of the CERN scientists and I saw lots of pictures of that thing. There were underground tunnels and everything for it. How big does it have to be?!
"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." - T. S. Eliot
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:25 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


Lies. Name one discovery in the LHC that has helped to improve upon the average persons life. How does anything they do help in the fight on world hunger? How many diseases are they curing? What was the great breakthrough on reversing the effects of radiation poisoning?

These are guys with brains much too large for their own good, and egos even bigger. If tesla were given the money these fools had, and granted the freedom to spend it however he wanted, we would be riding trains to the moon by now. These guys are just big kids with their daddy's credit card, and no sense of purpose, besides trying to prove godless theories on where we all came from.

Waste of time, space and of course taxpayer money, IMHO.
 Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot


You can never predict what useful comes out of science, because the discoveries made this year may very well be the foundation for a technological breakthrough in 10-20 years. Lasers are a great example. They came out of purely fundamental research with no plans for applications even after the discovery of stimulated emission of radiation. Yet, this fundamental science (=knowledge) was utilized by other people to bring on the optoelectronic revolution - it only took decades to materialize.

Hence, all new knowledge is valuable, because it is the only way technology can progress in the long term. Cut "useless" fundamental science and we'll find ourselves in a technological dead-end within a couple of decades.

Besides, the money spent on LHC or other large science projects is miniscule to the money spent on destruction of human life, entertainment or other projects that most definitely won't cure cancer or fix the world hunger.

Here's a comparison of LHC funding and other projects that most definitely don't address the issues you mentioned.

[link to scienceogram.org]

It's a false dichotomy to compare science funding and helping people starving somewhere. We can do both. If LHC went suddenly unfunded, the money most certainly wouldn't go to feeding people or curing cancer.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:25 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
daaaang! Isn't it big enough already?!!?!?

When I worked with the university some years ago, we were in touch with some of the CERN scientists and I saw lots of pictures of that thing. There were underground tunnels and everything for it. How big does it have to be?!
 Quoting: eekers


The one in Texas is bigger but we never finished it. [link to www.amusingplanet.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:25 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


Lies. Name one discovery in the LHC that has helped to improve upon the average persons life. How does anything they do help in the fight on world hunger? How many diseases are they curing? What was the great breakthrough on reversing the effects of radiation poisoning?

These are guys with brains much too large for their own good, and egos even bigger. If tesla were given the money these fools had, and granted the freedom to spend it however he wanted, we would be riding trains to the moon by now. These guys are just big kids with their daddy's credit card, and no sense of purpose, besides trying to prove godless theories on where we all came from.

Waste of time, space and of course taxpayer money, IMHO.
 Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot


There will always be poverty and hunger.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't stop looking for the nature of the world.

Still like I said the real reason is to make half integer time messaging possible.to be able to send a message back from the future.
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:31 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


Lies. Name one discovery in the LHC that has helped to improve upon the average persons life. How does anything they do help in the fight on world hunger? How many diseases are they curing? What was the great breakthrough on reversing the effects of radiation poisoning?

These are guys with brains much too large for their own good, and egos even bigger. If tesla were given the money these fools had, and granted the freedom to spend it however he wanted, we would be riding trains to the moon by now. These guys are just big kids with their daddy's credit card, and no sense of purpose, besides trying to prove godless theories on where we all came from.

Waste of time, space and of course taxpayer money, IMHO.
 Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot


You can never predict what useful comes out of science, because the discoveries made this year may very well be the foundation for a technological breakthrough in 10-20 years. Lasers are a great example. They came out of purely fundamental research with no plans for applications even after the discovery of stimulated emission of radiation. Yet, this fundamental science (=knowledge) was utilized by other people to bring on the optoelectronic revolution - it only took decades to materialize.

Hence, all new knowledge is valuable, because it is the only way technology can progress in the long term. Cut "useless" fundamental science and we'll find ourselves in a technological dead-end within a couple of decades.

Besides, the money spent on LHC or other large science projects is miniscule to the money spent on destruction of human life, entertainment or other projects that most definitely won't cure cancer or fix the world hunger.

Here's a comparison of LHC funding and other projects that most definitely don't address the issues you mentioned.

[link to scienceogram.org]

It's a false dichotomy to compare science funding and helping people starving somewhere. We can do both. If LHC went suddenly unfunded, the money most certainly wouldn't go to feeding people or curing cancer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49851245


They will not understand you,
because they don't want, they are lazy to understand your point of View
and/ or they are just plain Stupidos!
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:32 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


Lies. Name one discovery in the LHC that has helped to improve upon the average persons life. How does anything they do help in the fight on world hunger? How many diseases are they curing? What was the great breakthrough on reversing the effects of radiation poisoning?

These are guys with brains much too large for their own good, and egos even bigger. If tesla were given the money these fools had, and granted the freedom to spend it however he wanted, we would be riding trains to the moon by now. These guys are just big kids with their daddy's credit card, and no sense of purpose, besides trying to prove godless theories on where we all came from.

Waste of time, space and of course taxpayer money, IMHO.
 Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot


you moron, thats like saying how does general relativity help the average person? It's the fucking pillar of modern physics along with quantum mechanics which engineers work off of to make the average persons life better! Computers, GPS, MEDICAL EQUIPMENT!! moron
Face Palmer  (OP)

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11/15/2013 07:34 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
5000 years later they wonder why the fuck we dug mile wide circular tunnels
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Are you talking about the unfinished one in Texas? It's a big one. Used to live not very far from it.
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


No, like we are scratching our heads about the pyramids, future generations may find these tunnels and wonder.
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:35 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


Lies. Name one discovery in the LHC that has helped to improve upon the average persons life. How does anything they do help in the fight on world hunger? How many diseases are they curing? What was the great breakthrough on reversing the effects of radiation poisoning?

These are guys with brains much too large for their own good, and egos even bigger. If tesla were given the money these fools had, and granted the freedom to spend it however he wanted, we would be riding trains to the moon by now. These guys are just big kids with their daddy's credit card, and no sense of purpose, besides trying to prove godless theories on where we all came from.

Waste of time, space and of course taxpayer money, IMHO.
 Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot


you moron, thats like saying how does general relativity help the average person? It's the fucking pillar of modern physics along with quantum mechanics which engineers work off of to make the average persons life better! Computers, GPS, MEDICAL EQUIPMENT!! moron
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25811859


pigchef
UnmannedAerialPilot

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11/15/2013 07:38 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
They have worked hard and made many breakthroughs. They deserve more funding. Why are you upset about this?

catfilenails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49996267


Lies. Name one discovery in the LHC that has helped to improve upon the average persons life. How does anything they do help in the fight on world hunger? How many diseases are they curing? What was the great breakthrough on reversing the effects of radiation poisoning?

These are guys with brains much too large for their own good, and egos even bigger. If tesla were given the money these fools had, and granted the freedom to spend it however he wanted, we would be riding trains to the moon by now. These guys are just big kids with their daddy's credit card, and no sense of purpose, besides trying to prove godless theories on where we all came from.

Waste of time, space and of course taxpayer money, IMHO.
 Quoting: UnmannedAerialPilot


you moron, thats like saying how does general relativity help the average person? It's the fucking pillar of modern physics along with quantum mechanics which engineers work off of to make the average persons life better! Computers, GPS, MEDICAL EQUIPMENT!! moron
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25811859


bigcruise

The only thing worse than the ego of man is his refusal to admit it. You guys are nuts if you truly believe these wackos are doing anything useful and I can't believe you are comparing their work to Einsteins. Are you kidding me?
turn off the tv kids, the trite is running out of your ears...
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:39 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
It's the NWO religion we're talking about here, don't you want to tithe?
Anonymous Coward
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11/15/2013 07:42 AM
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Re: Physicists Now Want a Very Large Hadron Collider
5000 years later they wonder why the fuck we dug mile wide circular tunnels
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Are you talking about the unfinished one in Texas? It's a big one. Used to live not very far from it.
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


No, like we are scratching our heads about the pyramids, future generations may find these tunnels and wonder.
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Yeah. I see what you mean. Would love to have a time travel machine to find out about stuff...





GLP