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Message Subject Cosmic Turf War: You'll never see the Old Testament the same again
Poster Handle Keep2theCode
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I love Mike he's a great guy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45958835


What impresses me about him is that he doesn't let his personal preferences blind him to other interpretations or rule them out.

I'm listening to his C2C interview right now, and one question was about Bible prophecy. He made the points that prophecy is deliberately cryptic, and that one's interpretation always depends upon certain foundational assumptions. So while he has his personal views, he allows that other views about prophecy are possible and shouldn't be summarily dismissed.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I've listened to Mike for quite a long time. One place he won't go is the recognition that Jesus was one of these ruling angels (the one to whom God delegated rule of ancient Israel). Jesus himself says this in John 10:22-39, when he quotes Psalm 82:6 in verse 34 and calls himself the "Son of God" in verse 36. Here is the entire Psalm, which is a condemnation of the gods of the nations:

PSALM 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God has taken His place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods He holds judgment:
2 "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked."
5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 I said, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince."
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations! (ESV)

The writer of Hebrews (quoting from Psalm 45) also states that Jesus was among this group of ruling angels and because of his obedience (contrasted with their disobedience), he was elevated above the other 70 gods/Watchers/Archons:

HEBREWS 1:8 But of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions." (ESV)

Those "companions" were the ruling angels, the "gods" of the nations spoken of by Paul:

EPHESIANS 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. (ESV)

When stripped of human tradition, the Bible tells an amazing story about what's really going on in this world...
 Quoting: Eliyahu 49880398

I find your human tradition about Jesus far less credible than that you allege to be the case with the Bible.

Not only is your view a mainstay of aberrant groups claiming to be Christian, it is easily debunked. Have you never read even the first chapter of Hebrews? How about the eyewitness accounts we call the Gospels?

The logic of your argument is also fallacious, as it argues that "the sons of God" in their contexts must be identical to "the Son of God" in their contexts. Jesus also called himself "the son of man", yet what angel was ever really human?

And that verse from Ephesians doesn't even support your claim, since it speaks of MALEVOLENT entities that we "wrestle against". You cannot use scripture (which you called "human tradition") only when you think you can twist it to your advantage, so I can quote the scriptures that contradict your claims.


ADDED: You only cited a carefully-selected snippet from Hebrews 1. Here's more:

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”[a]?

Or again,

“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?

6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”[c]

7 In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”[d]

8 But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[e]
 Quoting: Heb. 1

Clearly, the reason "he won't go there" is because there's no place to go; your viewpoint lacks scriptural and logical support. And the "companions" are PEOPLE, not angels.

So now, Eliyahu, please stay on the topic of the ancient beings and not a rabbit trail on whether Jesus was God.
 
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