Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. | |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 08:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. I had an urge to post this note before the tranlations of the firts chapter. The Living Dao is Living Because It is not bound by the text of this or that version of Lao Tzu. Names are but names. Languages are only languages. The translator seeks the truth, the way of living, that will bring peace to the mind and the world. In this he is confident he is one with Lao Tzu. Various translatins/(personal) interpretations. NOTE: You can choose one that best suits your personal way of expressing and go on and read that particular translation of Tao Te Ching. ________________________________________ Aalar Fex A way that can be spoken Is not a lasting way. A name that can be named Is not a lasting name. Without a name: the beginning of Heaven and Earth. Having names: the mother of the ten thousand things. Therefore: Constantly without desire, thereby observe the mystery. Constantly with desire, thereby observe the boundaries. Those which these two are produced by Are the same but named differently. The abstraction of calling them the same The abstraction upon abstraction The gateway to a host of mysteries. ________________________________________ Agnieszka Solska The Tao you can tell is not the true Tao. The names you can name are not the true names. The nameless is the origin of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of the myriad things. Always desireless you see its very essence. Always desiring you see its outer edge. The source of these two is the same Yet they are differently named. They are called the mystery, Mystery upon mystery, The gateway to the essence of all. ________________________________________ Andre Gauthier The spirit one can talk about is not the eternal spirit, and what you can name is not the eternal name. Nameless-Tao is the beginning of the heavens and the Earth. If you name it-it is no more than Matter. Therefore: he who conceives of nature freely grasps this Spirit and he who strives for material things is left with only the shell. Spiritand matter are both one in their origin, yet different in appearance. This unity is a mystery t ruly the mystery of all mysteries, the gate to all spirituality. ________________________________________ Archie J. Bahm Nature can never be completely described, for such a description of Nature would have to duplicate Nature. No name can fully express what it represents. It is Nature itself, and not any part (or name or description) abstracted from Nature, which is the ultimate source of all that happens, all that comes and goes, begins and ends, is and is not. But to describe Nature as "the ultimate source of all" is still only a description, and such a description is not Nature itself. Yet since, in order to speak of it, we must use words, we shall have to describe it as "the ultimate source of all." If Nature is inexpressible, he who desires to know Nature as it is in itself will not try to express it in words Although the existence of Nature and a description of that existence are two different things, yet they are also the same. For both are ways of existing. That is, a description of existence must have its own existence, which is different from the existence of that which it describes; and so again we have to recognize an existence which cannot be described. ________________________________________ Brian Browne Walker Tao is beyond words and beyond understanding. Words may be used to speak of it, but they cannot contain it. Tao existed before words and names, before heaven and earth, before the ten thousand things. It is the unlimited father and mother of all limited things. Therefore, to see beyond all boundaries to the subtle heart of things, dispense with names, with concepts, with expectations and ambitions and differences. Tao and its many manifestations arise from the same source: subtle wonder within mysterious darkness. This is the beginning of all understanding. ________________________________________ C. Ganson The Tao described in words is not the real Tao. Words cannot describe it. Nameless, it is the source of creation. Named, it is the mother of all things. To see Tao the observer must be motiveless. Those with selfish motives see only the surface, not the innermost depths. These two kinds of observers look alike, but differ in the insight of their observations. They look alike because they are both human. Within humanity is the key to the door of creation. ________________________________________ Chang Chung-yuan The Tao that can be spoken of is not the Tao itself. The name that can be given is not the name itself. The unnameable is the source of the universe. The nameable is the originator of all things. Therefore, oftentimes without intention I see the wonder of Tao. Oftentimes with intention I see its manifestations. Its wonder and its manifestations are one and the same. Since their emergence, they have been called by different names. Their identity is called the mystery. From mystery to further mystery: The entry of all wonders! ________________________________________ David Bullen Words cannot describe the Tao, and The Tao cannot be named. That which is eternal is unnameable. Naming is the basis of things. Free from desire you are a mystery. Caught in desire you are known. The mystery and the known are not separate. It is naming which separates us. Only through paradox can you understand. ________________________________________ Douglas Allchin Who would follow the Way must go beyond words. Who would know the world must go beyond names. Nameless, all things begin. Named, all things are born. Empty of intent, one may be filled with awe. Full of intent, one may know what's manifest. One source, different fonts. Wonders both. From wonder into wonder, existence opens. ________________________________________ Gia-fu Feng & Jane English The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery. ________________________________________ Henry Wei The Tao that can be stated is not the Eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the Eternal Name. The Unnameable is originator of Heaven and Earth. The Nameable is mother of the ten thousand things. Therefore, Always be desireless, so as to discern Tao's wonderful essence; Always have some desire, so as to discern its manifestations. These two come out from the same source, But are different in name. Their identical nature is a mystery. Mystery of mysteries - That is the gate of all wonderful essence. ________________________________________ Jim Clatfelder Words and names are not the way They can't define the absolute It's better that you look within Hold your tongue and just be mute Look within and look out too You will not find a separation Out there you see appearance Within you see origination Look within with wonder At emptiness and bliss For wonder names totality Where nothing is amiss The space within is always there If you can moderate desire A place of utter emptiness And possibility entire ________________________________________ John WorldPeace The infinity that can be conceived is not the everlasting Infinity. The infinity that can be described is not the perpetual Infinity. The inconceivable indescribable is the essence of the all encompassing Infinite. Conceiving and describing applies only to the manifestations of Infinity. Free from distinctions, experience the oneness of Infinity. Focus on distinctions and see only the manifestations of Infinity. Yet distinction and non-distinction are one within Infinity. Potential within potential is the essence of Infinity. ________________________________________ Liu Qixuan There are ways to follow, But what is followed is not the true Way. There are names to give, But what is given is not the true Name. Let us call non-being the beginning of the universe And let us call being the development of all things. When we follow non-being We approach the wonder of the Way. When we follow being We approach the farther-end manifestation of the Way. Each has the same origin, And here exists a metaphysical door to true wisdom. ________________________________________ Octavian Sarbatoare The Way (Tao) that can be named, is not the Ultimate Way. The name given is not the eternal name. Without name is the source of Heaven and Earth. With a name is what creates all things. Without desires the essence of things can be seen. Who has desires sees only the manifestation of things. Both aspects have the same source, They become different, subject to perception. But are equal in the depth of depth, From where everything comes into existence. ________________________________________ Ray Larose Green tea is wonderful. There are many words that can describe its aroma, its flavor. I can tell you of the temperature of the tea as I sip it from its cup. The smells that fill my nose just as my tongue tastes the first drips. I can explain to you the benefits of the tea. But, you still have not experienced the tea. You only have a rude concept of what it might be. Unless you sip from the cup yourself, you are not experiencing the real. And this is true with the Dao. ________________________________________ Stan Rosenthal Even the finest teaching is not the Tao itself. Even the finest name is insufficient to define it. Without words, the Tao can be experienced, and without a name, it can be known. To conduct one's life according to the Tao, is to conduct one's life without regrets; to realize that potential within oneself which is of benefit to all. Though words or names are not required to live one's life this way, to describe it, words and names are used, that we might better clarify the way of which we speak, without confusing it with other ways in which an individual might choose to live. Through knowledge, intellectual thought and words, the manifestations of the Tao are known, but without such intellectual intent we might experience the Tao itself. Both knowledge and experience are real, but reality has many forms, which seem to cause complexity. By using the means appropriate, we extend ourselves beyond the barriers of such complexity, and so experience the Tao. ________________________________________ Last Edited by Galeb on 10/13/2013 01:20 PM |
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Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 08:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. It's not thousand pages and I got banned when I posted link lol Last Edited by Galeb on 10/01/2013 08:45 PM |
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Galeb
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Chrit
User ID: 27088294 United States 10/01/2013 08:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. I like the Gia-Fu Feng translation [link to www.amazon.com] Sixty-Eight A good soldier is not violent. A good fighter is not angry. A good winner is not vengeful. A good employer is humble. this is known as the virtue of not striving. This since ancient times has been known as the ultimate unity with heaven. I suggest the Art of War also by Sun Tzu to be read as a spiritual book above and beyond how it was written. Last Edited by Chrit on 10/01/2013 09:12 PM I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw. We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three. |
roadrunnerray
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Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 09:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. I like the Gia-Fu Feng translation [link to www.amazon.com] Sixty-Eight A good soldier is not violent. A good fighter is not angry. A good winner is not vengeful. A good employer is humble. this is known as the virtue of not striving. This since ancient times has been known as the ultimate unity with heaven. I suggest the Art of War also by Lao Tzu to be read as a spiritual book above and beyond how it was written. Thanks for that, sound great. I have seen some other translations tho, same things said with different words. I thought of that when I read something from it when I was at friend's house.. Maybe If you don't forget you can check the tread tommorow, maybe till then I manage to put what I've found it's very interesting.. Last Edited by Galeb on 10/01/2013 09:03 PM |
Galeb
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Chrit
User ID: 27088294 United States 10/01/2013 09:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. Np OP it is my favorite book in the world, it became part of me decades ago. Do you have a favorite number passage? My favorites tend to change with my moods. I also like the physical book over electronic versions. I can just open the book with instinct and what I need to read seems to be on the page every time. I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw. We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three. |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 09:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. Lao Tzu is also a mysterious figure, i read somewhere that he was 'taken' by God when he walked toward west passed ancient China border, never saw death, just like Enoch in the Bible. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25262330 Well by this wisdom he would seem very much different from the rest right? I cannot tell, who knows.. |
Chrit
User ID: 27088294 United States 10/01/2013 09:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. Bah I said Lau Tzu for the art of war it was Sun Tzu. I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw. We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three. |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 09:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. Np OP it is my favorite book in the world, it became part of me decades ago. Quoting: Chrit Do you have a favorite number passage? My favorites tend to change with my moods. I also like the physical book over electronic versions. I can just open the book with instinct and what I need to read seems to be on the page every time. That's very nice to hear.. I didn't look much for favorites yet I'll let you know, I remember few that have struck me these days, exacly like you said, it was connected to my mood. Yea I would love to have that, I will look for it sometime. But I would definetly like to find some English translation which there is none to find in Croatia, no English Bible in Croatia so.. I could only try to find it ebay or someway like that. |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 09:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. Np OP it is my favorite book in the world, it became part of me decades ago. Quoting: Chrit Do you have a favorite number passage? My favorites tend to change with my moods. I also like the physical book over electronic versions. I can just open the book with instinct and what I need to read seems to be on the page every time. I love something like that is happening.. I go and be back in few hours I guess then I post. |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 09:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. Easy to make a mistake there I wrote tzao lu more than once when I was searching lol Last Edited by Galeb on 10/01/2013 09:26 PM |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 10:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. So this what happened. All paragraphs in chapters were one when I copy-pasted them for posting. So I had to just press enter right to the last word of every paragraph. Then I began to notice that in some paragraphs last word (or last two) of every paragraph combined can make sense, make of it what you want, for me it was fun to play that little game to say at least.. Some had no connection whatsoever, others didn't have more than one paragraph lol. I bold out ones that mind blown me.. But this is no longer seen in original post as I updated it with other shortest and simpler version, this is from tranlation of Dwight Hoggard. 1. (infinite) idea (created) things (to) spirituality 3. (at) rest (in) quietness 7. endure preserved - conserved 8. tao rythm (never) rebuked 10. (avoid) compulsion (profoundest) virtue 11. value (it's) immateriality 14. incorporeal behind - tao 19. (will) dissapear (one's) desires 22. overcome- him- rejoicing 27. hold values spirituality 28. child absolute simplicity (harm no) one 30. Returns violence (soon) cease 35. rest inexhaustible 43. hardest impenetrable silence 44. (suffer) loss (severe) loss continue 47. (he) knows - (he) completes 49. (good) faith children 50. (life's) experience (is) invulnerable 52. (from) danger (of ) life eternal 54. (soon) cease (all) empires (same) Tao 60. (small) fish - (will) abide 61. wife conquer humility 64. (to) succed (not) interfere 65. (simple) hearted profound (obedient) subjects 68. (obedient) himself (greatest) virtue 73. difficult - nothing Last Edited by Galeb on 10/14/2013 08:43 AM |
waterlily
User ID: 46715388 United States 10/01/2013 10:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. Lao Tzu is also a mysterious figure, i read somewhere that he was 'taken' by God when he walked toward west passed ancient China border, never saw death, just like Enoch in the Bible. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25262330 They never found a grave or a body. I believe he just went to another dimension, the way high level Taoists do when they are through. *********** WaterLily *********** " Do I dare Disturb the universe?" -- T. S. Elliot, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock ************************************* “We are as ignorant of the meaning of the dragon as we are of the meaning of the universe.” -- Jorge Luis Borges ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring, and finished it in the middle of the summer." -- Cicero, De Imperio Cn. Pompei |
waterlily
User ID: 46715388 United States 10/01/2013 10:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. I think it does not matter how much you read the book, unless you change yourself you won't get far. For example, if someone reads the book every day but then goes to work and is really nasty to his co-workers, he has missed the message. Or if he throws tantrums or cheats people for money. I think the reading is the easy part, the changing is the hard part. Same with meditating. I'm talking in general, not about anybody in particular. *********** WaterLily *********** " Do I dare Disturb the universe?" -- T. S. Elliot, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock ************************************* “We are as ignorant of the meaning of the dragon as we are of the meaning of the universe.” -- Jorge Luis Borges ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring, and finished it in the middle of the summer." -- Cicero, De Imperio Cn. Pompei |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 10:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. I think it does not matter how much you read the book, unless you change yourself you won't get far. Quoting: waterlily For example, if someone reads the book every day but then goes to work and is really nasty to his co-workers, he has missed the message. Or if he throws tantrums or cheats people for money. I think the reading is the easy part, the changing is the hard part. Same with meditating. I'm talking in general, not about anybody in particular. Absolutely agreed. Nothing to add. |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 2134603 Croatia 10/01/2013 10:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. I think it does not matter how much you read the book, unless you change yourself you won't get far. Quoting: waterlily For example, if someone reads the book every day but then goes to work and is really nasty to his co-workers, he has missed the message. Or if he throws tantrums or cheats people for money. I think the reading is the easy part, the changing is the hard part. Same with meditating. I'm talking in general, not about anybody in particular. Lol accualy, 'faith without works is dead', that's it, it's what many today forget or ignore and speak like they're above all just because they said the prayer.. |
miked
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Galeb
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Galeb
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Mongo57
User ID: 27830471 Venezuela 10/02/2013 07:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. You have a long way to go, and in such path you will find that Tao can be felt, but not totally understood. Christianity and Tao are not compatible in so many ways, again, keep it up. Audere est facere |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 35615714 Croatia 10/02/2013 08:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. You have a long way to go, and in such path you will find that Tao can be felt, but not totally understood. Christianity and Tao are not compatible in so many ways, again, keep it up. Quoting: Mongo57 Keep in mind that modern Christianity seems very different from what Christ taught, I'm comparing it to Gospel not Christianity. On the other hand you are right. Good luck Last Edited by Galeb on 10/02/2013 08:27 AM |
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GreenishAndCoolish
User ID: 47656638 Portugal 10/02/2013 08:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. "Rejoyce in the way things are. When you realize nothing is lacking, the whole world belongs to you". So there is a lot of suffering in the world and I am expected to accept it and let things be as they are? Not only accept them, but rejoice in them. There are kids in africa who are starving. Should I tell them "You have to realize nothing is lacking in your life. Be happy in the way your life is now". Starving over a piece of paper they don't have (money). I severely question this book. It tells us to accept how things are. I don't like that idea one bit. The world is NOT fine. It is not! By the way, that above quote, it does not even justify it's conclusion. ("the whole world..."). It doesn't say the reason the author came to that conclusion nor what it really means. Mysterious, vague and illogical phrases do not impress me. If you're going to teach and share your wisdom, do it. Asking questions to your student and making him think is of course good, confusing your student is not. This book looks indoctrinating to me. I give you a buddha quote now: Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. This book does not agree with my own reason and my own common sense. I am so sorry if I offended someone. Have a great day my fellow philosophers! :D Hehe. All the best to you all and lots of love! :D Last Edited by GreenishAndCoolish on 10/02/2013 09:33 AM |
abhie
User ID: 25418726 India 10/02/2013 09:07 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. (I'm male, mid-40's, and live and work in India as a designer. Writing is a passion of mine, as is painting. My avatar represents my protagonist against the Illuminati -a female warrior.) :laotszungb: |
Galeb
(OP) User ID: 22135220 Croatia 10/02/2013 11:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching - Little book full of truth and wisdom, much like the Gospel. Book inside. "Rejoyce in the way things are. When you realize nothing is lacking, the whole world belongs to you". Quoting: GreenishAndCoolish So there is a lot of suffering in the world and I am expected to accept it and let things be as they are? Not only accept them, but rejoice in them. There are kids in africa who are starving. Should I tell them "You have to realize nothing is lacking in your life. Be happy in the way your life is now". Starving over a piece of paper they don't have (money). I severely question this book. It tells us to accept how things are. I don't like that idea one bit. The world is NOT fine. It is not! By the way, that above quote, it does not even justify it's conclusion. ("the whole world..."). It doesn't say the reason the author came to that conclusion nor what it really means. Mysterious, vague and illogical phrases do not impress me. If you're going to teach and share your wisdom, do it. Asking questions to your student and making him think is of course good, confusing your student is not. This book looks indoctrinating to me. I give you a buddha quote now: Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. This book does not agree with my own reason and my own common sense. I am so sorry if I offended someone. Have a great day my fellow philosophers! :D Hehe. All the best to you all and lots of love! :D Good points made there my friend, but still that does nothing, Africa's still starving.. I know that in every thing that man made or wrote you can find flaws if you go to search for them. If it doesn't resonate with it it's fine, I have no problem with that my friend, but I am interested on what does resonate with you? No offense taken, take care and good luck! |