....I think the two witnesses are...The Holy Shroud and the Sudarium Of Oviedo

I know ..I know..crazy idea

Had another insight

i was on the Shroud thread

and I said..it was a silent witness till the XX century till science gave it the ability to speak and reveal the amazing data it contains..

and I though

hold on..wait a minute..

what if?

this is the text of revelation

lets take a closer look shall we?

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. 6 They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. 7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit[a] will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, 8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, 10 and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. 11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

First off..witness to what? what is THE most important moment in Christianity..?

Obviously the Resurrection of Christ

this was the absolute PROOF..to believers of His identity

so it would make sense that if they are to be witness..it would have to be of the moment that didnt even have to be mentioned..because understood..the most important moment

HIS RESURRECTION

huh?

What was in that tomb with Christ?

nothing..no one..

just His Body and the cloth..cloths that covered Him

two cloths

One that covered His body as an envelope

one that wrapped His head to avoid excessive unseeming staining of the main burial cloth

two

The material they were made of was a particular burial weave..according to religious rite

maybe it can also be considered..sachcloth?

it certainly looks like sackcloth doesnt it?

and the prophecy says..specifically..sackcloth

odd isnt it?

that the prophecy should mention

of all things

CLOTHS

How would their 'dead bodies' lie unburied in the street for 3 1/2 days and everyone sees them?

Now these two cloths are closely associated with Christ..they contain His Blood..for believers

therefore indirectly they contain His essence

now lets continue reading

it mentions fire..fire consuming the enemies of the TWO WITNESSES

starngely indeed..but the Shroud..was almost destroyed..yes precisely by FIRE on various occasions..and in one occasion has the burn marks to prove it..but they didnt succeed in trying to destroy it

odd coincidence huh?

How can the shroud preach, use plagues, die, get resurrected?

It saysalso that they have the ability to prophecy..if you believe in what the Shroud and Sudariumstate scientifically..it is a prophecy that He is the Messiah..confirming indirectly all other related prophecies that happened and still to come in my view

the text also mentions

they will be killed..violently

in the city..where Christ was crucified

odd coincidence..again..the association with Christ and His crucifixion..same place

then it says..they will not be properly buried

Christ wasnt properly buried

the full religious rite of burial was NOT performed..and He was buried in haste...and not officially buried or considered buried because of this..but they did it in haste due to the approach of the Sabbath

drink more coffee you're not awake....the two witnesses are called "two prophets"

Rev 11:
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

It says all would rejoice at their death

as in Christs

and like Christ for 3 and a half days..would remain dead

and then resurrect..

and ascend to heaven

and an earthquake would take place

strange

as happened with Christ

It also says they have power over the elements

for believers the cloths contain the Blood of Christ

Christ had..for believers..power over the elements

maybe by association..or supernaturallly ..both cloths due to this containing the sacred blood of Christ have power over the elements?

during history many many alleged miracles have happened via the intervention of both cloths

what if they have the same supernatural abilities Christ had to a degree..due to containing the sacred Blood of Christ?

The first witness to Jesus' resurrection was Mary of Magdala. Then the rest of the living Apostles. Relics such as the shroud usually become idols. The idols have spirits behind them.

The first witness Elijah should appear in about 10 days as the revelation 12 sign of the woman clothed in the sun and moon at her feet happens October 6 2013 at 8:30 p.m central time:

It also says that the people will refuse toplace them in a tomb..

oddly enough

according to Roman law the body of a convicted Criminal..was not allowed to be placed in a tomb:.(See the Shroud thread..abaout the amazing bodytag discovery)

a tomb was refused

and in Christs case..according to new evidence..it was Jose of Arimatea and Nicodemos that had PP accept a makeshift temporary tomb for Him to avoid being thrown in a communal tomb as a dog..as was allegedly planned

and like the body of Christ..for three and a half days..remained dead

could it be the two witnesses

are the two cloths that according to many covered the body of Christ during burial and were witness to His amazing Resurrection

and give testimony through science and miracles to this..for those that believe?

Think whatever you want guys..I understand if you think this is absolute nonsence

from this end..it feels it was an inspiration

I honestly havent a clue how it even occurred to me..and just from that random quote

My thoughts are the two witnesses are Judah and Israel. Israel, the displaced 10 tribes.

Eh, no.

Judah and Israel are the 2 peoples but there will be one representing king from Judah and one representing priest from Israel and thes 2 will be the 2 witnesses

Sometimes called Judah and Israel and sometimes called Judah and Ephraim

Sometimes called messiah ben ephraim and messiah ben judah

well how about that..got the timing right huh?

lol

Do you want to be secure in the truth or blown about by every wind of doctrine?

Compare your leading with scripture,

hey I understand you have doubts

As I said..at this end..it feels inspired

wow guys..these are the end times

These are indeed the last days, I think that is why you are being called to study the scriptures. Remember there are lying signs and wonders. The AC will try to deceive many, even the elect, if that were possible

Yes! I like your explanation waterman. I was told that all were descendants of King David.

If you have a northern kingdom and a southern kingdom and the southern kingdom is Judah...we know kings come from the tribe of judah...so the northern kingdom should be priests. When the northern kingdom(lost 10 tribes) join with the southern kingdom Israel will be a kingdom of kings and priests again.

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

I think somehow you're high on carrots....

How can a couple of shrouds be killed and then resurrected?

It's ok to understand things allegorically, but you're taking it to extremes imo.

The Two Witnesses were the two men that went into Sodom and Gomorrha and destroyed it (the third man that briefly accompanied them and talked to Abraham, was Jesus).

The two angels guarding the empty grave of Jesus Christ, the Two Witnesses yet again.

Elija and Mose telling Jesus that he will have to go to Jerusalem and die there: the Two Witnesses.

As John the Baptist was Elija, so Mose was none other than Enoch reborn.

I remember reading one of the Apochrypha books that stated it would be Elijah and Enoch. My guess is one of them is Judah and one is Israel. Maybe it will be them, or maybe they represent who is coming. The bible makes it clear that descendants of Israel are the witnesses.