Cathecism of The Catholic Church | |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: A Heretic Jesus and the apostles were not Idolators, they did not worship images nor bow before them. Your traditions are based on pagan ideology that Constantine brought to the church when he converted. Look it up it doesn't take long to see that all those graven images of the whore church are images from other Pagan Gods, one of those BAAL. look up the real second commandment, not the lie of the church. I misunderstand NOTHING, rather you DO! Statues and paintings of Jesus, Mary and Joseph, are not graven images. Intelligence tells you it would be crazy to imagine a statue is really Jesus. "Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. the movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is". [link to www.vatican.va] Nothing on Earth nothing in Heaven and nothing below Earth which is the sea, what is so hard about the word NOTHING? Bowing down before any image is idolatry. We only bow to God, Jesus is not God, Mary is not God, dead Saints are not God, and the Eucharist is not God! And once again your resource is an institution and not the word of God. You will perish two deaths from those beliefs, and that is the truth. When Jesus came, he made it quite clear it is what is in your heart that matters most to God, not gestures and words. I don't worship images or statues, they help my mind focus on God. The kind of faith you are proposing is superstition to me, fixated on the letter of the law, but far from the heart. Idolatry is idolatry and that is the law. No other interpretations. And Jesus obeyed His Father because he honored his father. |
K.Kool
User ID: 22049756 Australia 05/03/2013 07:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: K.Kool Statues and paintings of Jesus, Mary and Joseph, are not graven images. Intelligence tells you it would be crazy to imagine a statue is really Jesus. "Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. the movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is". [link to www.vatican.va] Nothing on Earth nothing in Heaven and nothing below Earth which is the sea, what is so hard about the word NOTHING? Bowing down before any image is idolatry. We only bow to God, Jesus is not God, Mary is not God, dead Saints are not God, and the Eucharist is not God! And once again your resource is an institution and not the word of God. You will perish two deaths from those beliefs, and that is the truth. When Jesus came, he made it quite clear it is what is in your heart that matters most to God, not gestures and words. I don't worship images or statues, they help my mind focus on God. The kind of faith you are proposing is superstition to me, fixated on the letter of the law, but far from the heart. Idolatry is idolatry and that is the law. No other interpretations. And Jesus obeyed His Father because he honored his father. Agreed, but I'm saying the veneration shown to images and statues is NOT idolatry. |
K.Kool
User ID: 22049756 Australia 05/03/2013 07:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Once again: "The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone". [link to www.vatican.va] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 7312162 Australia 05/03/2013 07:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Once again: Quoting: K.Kool "The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone". [link to www.vatican.va] It's idolatry the church doesn't make the laws, they were given to prophets and passed down to people. Your church happened to remove the commandment from the bible. Read revelations 21 and see what John has to say about anyone changing one word. The very church you worship. Last Edited by Troy. on 05/03/2013 07:31 PM |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Life and Love
User ID: 36559246 United States 05/03/2013 07:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When Jesus came, he made it quite clear it is what is in your heart that matters most to God, not gestures and words. Quoting: K.Kool I don't worship images or statues, they help my mind focus on God. The kind of faith you are proposing is superstition to me, fixated on the letter of the law, but far from the heart. ^^THIS^^ is well said. Thank you, KK. We become like that to which we are devoted. - Choose wisely. |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When Jesus came, he made it quite clear it is what is in your heart that matters most to God, not gestures and words. Quoting: K.Kool I don't worship images or statues, they help my mind focus on God. The kind of faith you are proposing is superstition to me, fixated on the letter of the law, but far from the heart. ^^THIS^^ is well said. Thank you, KK. John 14:15 "If you love me you will keep my commandments." |
Life and Love
User ID: 36559246 United States 05/03/2013 07:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When Jesus came, he made it quite clear it is what is in your heart that matters most to God, not gestures and words. Quoting: K.Kool I don't worship images or statues, they help my mind focus on God. The kind of faith you are proposing is superstition to me, fixated on the letter of the law, but far from the heart. ^^THIS^^ is well said. Thank you, KK. John 14:15 "If you love me you will keep my commandments." That seems like a very non sequitor response, OP. We become like that to which we are devoted. - Choose wisely. |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When Jesus came, he made it quite clear it is what is in your heart that matters most to God, not gestures and words. Quoting: K.Kool I don't worship images or statues, they help my mind focus on God. The kind of faith you are proposing is superstition to me, fixated on the letter of the law, but far from the heart. ^^THIS^^ is well said. Thank you, KK. John 14:15 "If you love me you will keep my commandments." That seems like a very non sequitor response, OP. If you love God, in what did KK say 'HEART', you will obey God, something your church hasn't done, and every week when you drink from that cup of filth and eat the Eucharist you smack God and Jesus in the face. Catholics don't worship God they worship Jesus, and Jesus is not God. |
Spitting Into The Wind
User ID: 35684381 United States 05/03/2013 07:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I disagree, OP, that Jesus is not God. Scripture demonstrates that He is because only Yah Himself is pure enough to be the covering sacrifice to save us. I do agree that the law has not been done away with, but now written in the hearts of those who follow Him. The closer we get to Him, the more of His law (actually, His desire) will operate through us. |
Life and Love
User ID: 36559246 United States 05/03/2013 07:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That seems like a very non sequitor response, OP. If you love God, in what did KK say 'HEART', you will obey God, something your church hasn't done, and every week when you drink from that cup of filth and eat the Eucharist you smack God and Jesus in the face. Catholics don't worship God they worship Jesus, and Jesus is not God. The above post is so ignorant of who I am and what I do as to undermine the credibility of everything else the OP has posted. However, your true colors now come through. We become like that to which we are devoted. - Choose wisely. |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I disagree, OP, that Jesus is not God. Scripture demonstrates that He is because only Yah Himself is pure enough to be the covering sacrifice to save us. Quoting: Spitting Into The Wind I do agree that the law has not been done away with, but now written in the hearts of those who follow Him. The closer we get to Him, the more of His law (actually, His desire) will operate through us. It is quite normal to to disagree. He was the Son of God for sure. Just like prophets from the Old Testament their power came from God and God alone, as He is the only source. Much the same as his Son. The Son alone cannot create that power. The Son was bestowed the power by God. Just my thoughts. Please share more of you would like. Last Edited by Troy. on 05/03/2013 07:55 PM |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you love God, in what did KK say 'HEART', you will obey God, something your church hasn't done, and every week when you drink from that cup of filth and eat the Eucharist you smack God and Jesus in the face. Catholics don't worship God they worship Jesus, and Jesus is not God. The above post is so ignorant of who I am and what I do as to undermine the credibility of everything else the OP has posted. However, your true colors now come through. I could really care less who you are, the fact is you haven't proved anything but lip service. Nothing more and nothing less. |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 07:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I disagree, OP, that Jesus is not God. Scripture demonstrates that He is because only Yah Himself is pure enough to be the covering sacrifice to save us. Quoting: Spitting Into The Wind I do agree that the law has not been done away with, but now written in the hearts of those who follow Him. The closer we get to Him, the more of His law (actually, His desire) will operate through us. And I would like to say that keeping his commandments is a good sign of obedience, what is in our hearts, and he allows us to draw closer to Him. You are absolutely correct on those accounts. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37674349 United States 05/03/2013 07:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When you compare it to the real scriptures it is a disgusting work of treachery and lies something that most people cannot handle. If I had the book it would make great fuel to start a fire. Good - let others judge on their own. I'm not going to defend the Catechism - it speaks for itself - and my beloved Church. Peace. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37674349 United States 05/03/2013 07:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When you compare it to the real scriptures it is a disgusting work of treachery and lies something that most people cannot handle. If I had the book it would make great fuel to start a fire. Hmm, I don't see how you could get that assessment from it, I hope your hatred doesn't burn you. He gets it that assessment because he read and compared. And I can tell you this...... that which he hates? will most definitely be burned and annihilated by the fires of purification of the Most High. Hmmm - I read and compared, and it brought me TO the Catholic church. Now what do we do? |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 08:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you love God, in what did KK say 'HEART', you will obey God, something your church hasn't done, and every week when you drink from that cup of filth and eat the Eucharist you smack God and Jesus in the face. Catholics don't worship God they worship Jesus, and Jesus is not God. The above post is so ignorant of who I am and what I do as to undermine the credibility of everything else the OP has posted. However, your true colors now come through. And the credibility can be found within the laws and beliefs of the Vatican alone. It is clear that they have changed the word of God, clear they don't worship God. They have adopted two Pagan holidays, and allowed the Sabbath to be changed by a Pagan. Your credibility has been established however, and that is of a shill. |
Life and Love
User ID: 36559246 United States 05/03/2013 08:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you love God, in what did KK say 'HEART', you will obey God, something your church hasn't done, and every week when you drink from that cup of filth and eat the Eucharist you smack God and Jesus in the face. Catholics don't worship God they worship Jesus, and Jesus is not God. The above post is so ignorant of who I am and what I do as to undermine the credibility of everything else the OP has posted. However, your true colors now come through. I could really care less who you are, the fact is you haven't proved anything but lip service. Nothing more and nothing less. I have nothing to "prove." (and that should be "couldn't care less") We become like that to which we are devoted. - Choose wisely. |
Life and Love
User ID: 36559246 United States 05/03/2013 08:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you love God, in what did KK say 'HEART', you will obey God, something your church hasn't done, and every week when you drink from that cup of filth and eat the Eucharist you smack God and Jesus in the face. Catholics don't worship God they worship Jesus, and Jesus is not God. The above post is so ignorant of who I am and what I do as to undermine the credibility of everything else the OP has posted. However, your true colors now come through. And the credibility can be found within the laws and beliefs of the Vatican alone. It is clear that they have changed the word of God, clear they don't worship God. They have adopted two Pagan holidays, and allowed the Sabbath to be changed by a Pagan. Your credibility has been established however, and that is of a shill. I hope your powers of observation and analysis improve over time. We become like that to which we are devoted. - Choose wisely. |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 08:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When you compare it to the real scriptures it is a disgusting work of treachery and lies something that most people cannot handle. If I had the book it would make great fuel to start a fire. Good - let others judge on their own. I'm not going to defend the Catechism - it speaks for itself - and my beloved Church. Peace. Instead of defending it with words why not defend it with the text itself? Put their words against Gods words and let is see if their words pass the test? You scared? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37674349 United States 05/03/2013 08:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: A Heretic Nothing on Earth nothing in Heaven and nothing below Earth which is the sea, what is so hard about the word NOTHING? Bowing down before any image is idolatry. We only bow to God, Jesus is not God, Mary is not God, dead Saints are not God, and the Eucharist is not God! And once again your resource is an institution and not the word of God. You will perish two deaths from those beliefs, and that is the truth. When Jesus came, he made it quite clear it is what is in your heart that matters most to God, not gestures and words. I don't worship images or statues, they help my mind focus on God. The kind of faith you are proposing is superstition to me, fixated on the letter of the law, but far from the heart. Idolatry is idolatry and that is the law. No other interpretations. And Jesus obeyed His Father because he honored his father. Agreed, but I'm saying the veneration shown to images and statues is NOT idolatry. Agreed. It may look like it from the outside, but it is not worship. All glory and honor is directed to the Father, Son, and Holy ghost - as in the Glory be prayer. The Catechism and the church are VERY CLEAR on this teaching. |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 08:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: K.Kool When Jesus came, he made it quite clear it is what is in your heart that matters most to God, not gestures and words. I don't worship images or statues, they help my mind focus on God. The kind of faith you are proposing is superstition to me, fixated on the letter of the law, but far from the heart. Idolatry is idolatry and that is the law. No other interpretations. And Jesus obeyed His Father because he honored his father. Agreed, but I'm saying the veneration shown to images and statues is NOT idolatry. Agreed. It may look like it from the outside, but it is not worship. All glory and honor is directed to the Father, Son, and Holy ghost - as in the Glory be prayer. The Catechism and the church are VERY CLEAR on this teaching. It is idolatry based on the words of God. The words of the church are not the words of God. Show me one reference in the scriptures that allows graven images, and idol worship. Last Edited by Troy. on 05/03/2013 08:05 PM |
Spitting Into The Wind
User ID: 35684381 United States 05/03/2013 08:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I disagree, OP, that Jesus is not God. Scripture demonstrates that He is because only Yah Himself is pure enough to be the covering sacrifice to save us. Quoting: Spitting Into The Wind I do agree that the law has not been done away with, but now written in the hearts of those who follow Him. The closer we get to Him, the more of His law (actually, His desire) will operate through us. It is quite normal to to disagree. He was the Son of God for sure. Just like prophets from the Old Testament their power came from God and God alone, as He is the only source. Much the same as his Son. The Son alone cannot create that power. The Son was bestowed the power by God. Just my thoughts. Please share more of you would like. Being in flesh of course limited the power He could use; He would destroy His flesh, which is why He told Moses, he could not see His face (the full glory of His presence), Exodus 33:20. Also, Jesus had to set the example for the rest of us in what supernatural authority we could exercise in this realm ("follow me" = "do as I say and do"). One of the reasons He kept me out of all religions was to learn to do more of this very thing when HE calls me to do it. This is one of those topic you have to take to the Father and wait for the answer. You might be surprised to see what He reveals to you. I wish believers would seek the Father and His wisdom more than they do... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37674349 United States 05/03/2013 08:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | When you compare it to the real scriptures it is a disgusting work of treachery and lies something that most people cannot handle. If I had the book it would make great fuel to start a fire. Good - let others judge on their own. I'm not going to defend the Catechism - it speaks for itself - and my beloved Church. Peace. Instead of defending it with words why not defend it with the text itself? Put their words against Gods words and let is see if their words pass the test? You scared? What don't you understand? The Catechism is words - and each and every word of it is supported by citations to scripture and the writings of the early church fathers. Do you want me to cut and paste the whole thing? So, open it up, find the passage you disagree with, and then read the scriptural passage it cites. If you don't believe in the Church, then you don't believe and whatever I say is not going to change your mind, and vice versa. Scripture battles are generally pointless - that's the problem with sola scriptura - you can read something one way, I can read it the other. That's why we have the Magisterium. Your approach to the word of God - sola scriptura or whatever you believe - almost took my life away from me. I could not find a consistent voice on certain issues and I started to believe that, perhaps, Jesus was not really the Son of God - because what I was reading in the bible didn't comport exactly with what churches I knew were teaching, and if the Word didn't contain the Truth, then maybe there was no truth. I fell so far away from him. But then I found him again, and the Holy Spirit led me to the Catholic Church that held the Truth I was looking for, as well as the tools Christ left us to be close to him. Therefore, I will defend my Lord and his Church until the day I die, and I hope you find the peace you are looking for. |
A Heretic
(OP) User ID: 31231991 United States 05/03/2013 08:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I disagree, OP, that Jesus is not God. Scripture demonstrates that He is because only Yah Himself is pure enough to be the covering sacrifice to save us. Quoting: Spitting Into The Wind I do agree that the law has not been done away with, but now written in the hearts of those who follow Him. The closer we get to Him, the more of His law (actually, His desire) will operate through us. It is quite normal to to disagree. He was the Son of God for sure. Just like prophets from the Old Testament their power came from God and God alone, as He is the only source. Much the same as his Son. The Son alone cannot create that power. The Son was bestowed the power by God. Just my thoughts. Please share more of you would like. Being in flesh of course limited the power He could use; He would destroy His flesh, which is why He told Moses, he could not see His face (the full glory of His presence), Exodus 33:20. Also, Jesus had to set the example for the rest of us in what supernatural authority we could exercise in this realm ("follow me" = "do as I say and do"). One of the reasons He kept me out of all religions was to learn to do more of this very thing when HE calls me to do it. This is one of those topic you have to take to the Father and wait for the answer. You might be surprised to see what He reveals to you. I wish believers would seek the Father and His wisdom more than they do... This energy that you discuss runs on a cycle does it not? This energy I have become quite aware of, and God has allowed me to tap into it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 39224504 Spain 05/03/2013 08:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: A Heretic When you compare it to the real scriptures it is a disgusting work of treachery and lies something that most people cannot handle. If I had the book it would make great fuel to start a fire. Good - let others judge on their own. I'm not going to defend the Catechism - it speaks for itself - and my beloved Church. Peace. Instead of defending it with words why not defend it with the text itself? Put their words against Gods words and let is see if their words pass the test? You scared? What don't you understand? The Catechism is words - and each and every word of it is supported by citations to scripture and the writings of the early church fathers. Do you want me to cut and paste the whole thing? So, open it up, find the passage you disagree with, and then read the scriptural passage it cites. If you don't believe in the Church, then you don't believe and whatever I say is not going to change your mind, and vice versa. Scripture battles are generally pointless - that's the problem with sola scriptura - you can read something one way, I can read it the other. That's why we have the Magisterium. Your approach to the word of God - sola scriptura or whatever you believe - almost took my life away from me. I could not find a consistent voice on certain issues and I started to believe that, perhaps, Jesus was not really the Son of God - because what I was reading in the bible didn't comport exactly with what churches I knew were teaching, and if the Word didn't contain the Truth, then maybe there was no truth. I fell so far away from him. But then I found him again, and the Holy Spirit led me to the Catholic Church that held the Truth I was looking for, as well as the tools Christ left us to be close to him. Therefore, I will defend my Lord and his Church until the day I die, and I hope you find the peace you are looking for. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 37674349 United States 05/03/2013 08:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: A Heretic Idolatry is idolatry and that is the law. No other interpretations. And Jesus obeyed His Father because he honored his father. Agreed, but I'm saying the veneration shown to images and statues is NOT idolatry. Agreed. It may look like it from the outside, but it is not worship. All glory and honor is directed to the Father, Son, and Holy ghost - as in the Glory be prayer. The Catechism and the church are VERY CLEAR on this teaching. It is idolatry based on the words of God. The words of the church are not the words of God. Show me one reference in the scriptures that allows graven images, and idol worship. Show me one piece of evidence that Catholics make graven images and engage in idol worship. I'm sure glad you have enough time for these pointless circular arguments, but I don't. |
Spitting Into The Wind
User ID: 35684381 United States 05/03/2013 08:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ven·er·ate transitive verb \ˈve-nə-ˌrāt\ ven·er·at·edven·er·at·ing Definition of VENERATE 1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference 2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion — ven·er·a·tor noun Examples of VENERATE a writer venerated by generations of admirers She is venerated as a saint. Origin of VENERATE Latin veneratus, past participle of venerari, from vener-, venus love, charm — more at win First Known Use: circa 1623 Related to VENERATE Synonyms adore, deify, glorify, revere, reverence, worship It is still idolatry any way you define it. We are to cleanse ourselves and strip away the world when we go before His throne. I tend to forget the vast majority of believers know nothing of throne-room worship... |