Cathecism of The Catholic Church

Idolatry is idolatry and that is the law. No other interpretations. And Jesus obeyed His Father because he honored his father.

Agreed, but I'm saying the veneration shown to images and statues is NOT idolatry.

Once again:

"The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it."70 The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone".

[link to www.vatican.va]

Mormonism to Catholicism, they're both cults, you need to get out of cults.

It's idolatry the church doesn't make the laws, they were given to prophets and passed down to people. Your church happened to remove the commandment from the bible.

Read revelations 21 and see what John has to say about anyone changing one word. The very church you worship.

Last Edited by Troy. on 05/03/2013 07:31 PM

Already did.

^^THIS^^ is well said. Thank you, KK.

John 14:15

"If you love me you will keep my commandments."

That seems like a very non sequitor response, OP.

Ephesians 3:14

"14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father."

What type of watered down BS are they feeding you?

If you love God, in what did KK say 'HEART', you will obey God, something your church hasn't done, and every week when you drink from that cup of filth and eat the Eucharist you smack God and Jesus in the face. Catholics don't worship God they worship Jesus, and Jesus is not God.

I disagree, OP, that Jesus is not God. Scripture demonstrates that He is because only Yah Himself is pure enough to be the covering sacrifice to save us.

I do agree that the law has not been done away with, but now written in the hearts of those who follow Him. The closer we get to Him, the more of His law (actually, His desire) will operate through us.

The above post is so ignorant of who I am and what I do as to undermine the credibility of everything else the OP has posted.

However, your true colors now come through.

It is quite normal to to disagree. He was the Son of God for sure. Just like prophets from the Old Testament their power came from God and God alone, as He is the only source. Much the same as his Son. The Son alone cannot create that power. The Son was bestowed the power by God.

Just my thoughts. Please share more of you would like.

Last Edited by Troy. on 05/03/2013 07:55 PM

I could really care less who you are, the fact is you haven't proved anything but lip service. Nothing more and nothing less.

And I would like to say that keeping his commandments is a good sign of obedience, what is in our hearts, and he allows us to draw closer to Him. You are absolutely correct on those accounts.

Good - let others judge on their own. I'm not going to defend the Catechism - it speaks for itself - and my beloved Church.

Peace.

Hmmm - I read and compared, and it brought me TO the Catholic church. Now what do we do?

And the credibility can be found within the laws and beliefs of the Vatican alone. It is clear that they have changed the word of God, clear they don't worship God. They have adopted two Pagan holidays, and allowed the Sabbath to be changed by a Pagan.

Your credibility has been established however, and that is of a shill.

I have nothing to "prove." (and that should be "couldn't care less")

I hope your powers of observation and analysis improve over time.

Instead of defending it with words why not defend it with the text itself? Put their words against Gods words and let is see if their words pass the test?

You scared?

Agreed. It may look like it from the outside, but it is not worship. All glory and honor is directed to the Father, Son, and Holy ghost - as in the Glory be prayer. The Catechism and the church are VERY CLEAR on this teaching.

It is idolatry based on the words of God. The words of the church are not the words of God. Show me one reference in the scriptures that allows graven images, and idol worship.

Last Edited by Troy. on 05/03/2013 08:05 PM

Being in flesh of course limited the power He could use; He would destroy His flesh, which is why He told Moses, he could not see His face (the full glory of His presence), Exodus 33:20. Also, Jesus had to set the example for the rest of us in what supernatural authority we could exercise in this realm ("follow me" = "do as I say and do"). One of the reasons He kept me out of all religions was to learn to do more of this very thing when HE calls me to do it.

This is one of those topic you have to take to the Father and wait for the answer. You might be surprised to see what He reveals to you. I wish believers would seek the Father and His wisdom more than they do...

What don't you understand? The Catechism is words - and each and every word of it is supported by citations to scripture and the writings of the early church fathers. Do you want me to cut and paste the whole thing? So, open it up, find the passage you disagree with, and then read the scriptural passage it cites.

If you don't believe in the Church, then you don't believe and whatever I say is not going to change your mind, and vice versa. Scripture battles are generally pointless - that's the problem with sola scriptura - you can read something one way, I can read it the other. That's why we have the Magisterium.

Your approach to the word of God - sola scriptura or whatever you believe - almost took my life away from me. I could not find a consistent voice on certain issues and I started to believe that, perhaps, Jesus was not really the Son of God - because what I was reading in the bible didn't comport exactly with what churches I knew were teaching, and if the Word didn't contain the Truth, then maybe there was no truth. I fell so far away from him. But then I found him again, and the Holy Spirit led me to the Catholic Church that held the Truth I was looking for, as well as the tools Christ left us to be close to him.

Therefore, I will defend my Lord and his Church until the day I die, and I hope you find the peace you are looking for.

This energy that you discuss runs on a cycle does it not? This energy I have become quite aware of, and God has allowed me to tap into it.

Show me one piece of evidence that Catholics make graven images and engage in idol worship.

I'm sure glad you have enough time for these pointless circular arguments, but I don't.

ven·er·ate
transitive verb \ˈve-nə-ˌrāt\
ven·er·at·edven·er·at·ing
Definition of VENERATE
1: to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2: to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion
— ven·er·a·tor noun
Examples of VENERATE

a writer venerated by generations of admirers
She is venerated as a saint.

Origin of VENERATE
Latin veneratus, past participle of venerari, from vener-, venus love, charm — more at win
First Known Use: circa 1623
Related to VENERATE

Synonyms
adore, deify, glorify, revere, reverence, worship

It is still idolatry any way you define it. We are to cleanse ourselves and strip away the world when we go before His throne. I tend to forget the vast majority of believers know nothing of throne-room worship...