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Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 08:33 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
There are still 300 million dollars of US Treasury reserve notes in circulation.

Your demand for them (with documentation of your demand) is all that is required to end the presumption you endorse the Federal Reserve Debt.

"DEMAMD IS MADE FOR LAWFUL MONEY PER 12 USC 411" written above all your banking transactions makes and records your demand.

There is no frivolous filing fee, 12 USC 411 is remedy written in their law. No need to go to a Fed bank, just makes your demand and any income tax state or federal withheld is refunded plus interest.

A 1040 with your total amount of demanded redeemed money is filed with supporting docs (a copy of your demand check endorsements) and that's it.

You are redeemed from their scam. There is nothing they can do about it either because they cannot make you do business with them, that would be involuntary servitude.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 08:38 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Nobody is forced to endorse Federal Reserve private money! You do have a choice to use money issued tax free from the Treasury department and not pay income tax on it.

12 USC 411
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


WRONG!!!

All of you select this one law and try to use it against the IRS. If your going to accept that 1 law is valid then you accept that the others are just a valid.

Oh hey look at this law
26 USC § 61 - Gross income defined

Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived


Do you know what that means? The IRS is pretty thorough in explaining. It means ANYTHING that has value, you have to pay taxes on. So if you literally got paid peanuts all year long it would be your responsibility to convert some of those peanuts to legal tender and pay income tax.

It's all there, just like your FRN law. I hate it as much as you do, but the system is set up well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1375041


Wrong ex post facto law, title 12 USC came before title 26, title 26 requires that you do not demand redemption per title 12.

The entire tax code is null and void if redemption is demanded per title 12 USC 411, that is how it stays voluntary.

Many people have and are doing it, I am one of them.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 08:46 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
The federal reserve note has no "value" so the ideal that "anything of value" is income is utter tripe. What has value is your ENDORSEMENT and promise to pay.

That creates an obligation to pay, demand for lawful money leaves the obligation to pay with the US Treasury and Congress who created the Federal Reserve in the first place.

Stop endorsing their creation and stop paying the fees and penalties for doing so. Simple contract and trust law. You do not endorse it, they have no claim on you.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 08:54 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
I get it, you have to understand what their definition of voluntary is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37968400


Hunh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37966417


Well, Sir/Ma'am, that depends on what the definition of "is" is.


pigchefohyeah
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 08:58 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

Do your homework.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 09:02 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
I get it, you have to understand what their definition of voluntary is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37968400


Hunh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37966417


Well, Sir/Ma'am, that depends on what the definition of "is" is.


pigchefohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2782120


Actually it depends on if we AGREE on what the definition of is is.

There is no contract without agreement, real or presumed or assumed.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 10:31 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
The federal reserve note has no "value" so the ideal that "anything of value" is income is utter tripe. What has value is your ENDORSEMENT and promise to pay.

That creates an obligation to pay, demand for lawful money leaves the obligation to pay with the US Treasury and Congress who created the Federal Reserve in the first place.

Stop endorsing their creation and stop paying the fees and penalties for doing so. Simple contract and trust law. You do not endorse it, they have no claim on you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288

What if the banks are insolvent?
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 12:24 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
bump
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 12:40 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
I get it, you have to understand what their definition of voluntary is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37968400


Hunh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37966417


The Senator was saying that "voluntary" means that you, the tax payer, are responsible for filing your taxes and paying them....as opposed to other countries where the government holds the employer solely responsible for withholding the taxes....

That was my understanding of what he was saying, anyway.
 Quoting: Dried Up Hag


Try not withholding taxes from an employee and see who ends up in the pokey.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 01:54 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
I get it, you have to understand what their definition of voluntary is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37968400


Hunh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37966417


The Senator was saying that "voluntary" means that you, the tax payer, are responsible for filing your taxes and paying them....as opposed to other countries where the government holds the employer solely responsible for withholding the taxes....

That was my understanding of what he was saying, anyway.
 Quoting: Dried Up Hag


Try not withholding taxes from an employee and see who ends up in the pokey.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22301087

Rumor has it many small businesses are doing that. They are tired of all the rules and lying.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 02:12 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
lol. Watching a politician try to rationalize DOUBLESPEAK is hilarious... well sickening, really.

Anyway, taxes ARE voluntary and you can avoid paying them by only dealing in *lawful money*. The second you deal in *legal tender* you are volunteering to pay the franchise tax.

Many people have explained this in the past.
TraderRob

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04/15/2013 02:23 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
btw one sure way of not having to pay tax.. is to voluntarily not use money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37968400


This! Build your own stuff from junk, and use it till it breaks. Grow your own food and eat it. Shun the system.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37490003


And Squat on someone else's land so you don't have to pay property tax?

And wipe your ass with leaves so you don't have to pay income tax or sales tax?
Have a nice day = GFY. GFY = Go Fuck Yourself. If this offends you then have a nice day.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 02:28 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
This is a direct quote from the "Federal" Reserve:

*****
"Lawful money" is a term used in the Federal Reserve Act, the act that authorizes the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to issue Federal Reserve notes. The Act states that Federal Reserve notes "shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." The Act did not, however, define the term "lawful money," but up until 1913, the only currency issued by the United States that was legally recognized as "lawful money" was various issues of "demand notes" (subsequently known as "old demand notes") and "United States notes" authorized by Congress during the Civil War.

At the time, some currency was not considered legal tender, although it could be used by national banking associations as "lawful money reserves." Thus, the term "lawful money" had a broader meaning than the term "legal tender."

In 1933, Congress changed the law so that all U.S. coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes), regardless of when issued, constitutes "legal tender" for all purposes. Federal and state courts since then have repeatedly held that Federal Reserve notes are also "lawful money." Milam v. U.S., 524 F.2d 629 (9th Cir. 1974), is typical of the federal and state court cases holding that Federal Reserve notes are "lawful money." In Milam, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reviewed a judgment denying relief to an individual who sought to redeem a $50 Federal Reserve Bank Note in "lawful money." The United States tendered Milam $50 in Federal Reserve notes, but Milam refused the notes, asserting that "lawful money" must be gold or silver. The Ninth Circuit, noting that this matter had been put to rest by the U.S. Supreme Court nearly a century before in the Legal Tender Cases (Juilliard v. Greenman), 110 U.S. 421 (1884), rejected this assertion as frivolous and affirmed the judgment.

*******

That quote from the fed is typical obfuscatory BS that omits the important part of the subject. They make it *seem* that your debt notes are lawful money - because there is no OTHER form of money at this time - but they are NOT until you make the demand.

So, that means that your only recourse is to make the DEMAND per 12 USC 211 and your "legal tender" becomes "lawful money."

Your DEMAND is the recording that you do not consent and you do not VOLUNTEER.

Easy.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 02:34 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
It is true that it is not law. I saw an article where one guy actually won in court a few years back. Unfortunately, that did not help the rest rotting in prison so I kept paying. I think they try to claim it is voluntary because you sign forms when you accept a job.
Anonymous Coward
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04/15/2013 02:37 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
It is true that it is not law. I saw an article where one guy actually won in court a few years back. Unfortunately, that did not help the rest rotting in prison so I kept paying. I think they try to claim it is voluntary because you sign forms when you accept a job.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36848116

Maybe the answer is not to sign any silly forms.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/16/2013 06:27 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
There are still 300 million dollars of US Treasury reserve notes in circulation.

Your demand for them (with documentation of your demand) is all that is required to end the presumption you endorse the Federal Reserve Debt.

"DEMAMD IS MADE FOR LAWFUL MONEY PER 12 USC 411" written above all your banking transactions makes and records your demand.

There is no frivolous filing fee, 12 USC 411 is remedy written in their law. No need to go to a Fed bank, just makes your demand and any income tax state or federal withheld is refunded plus interest.

A 1040 with your total amount of demanded redeemed money is filed with supporting docs (a copy of your demand check endorsements) and that's it.

You are redeemed from their scam. There is nothing they can do about it either because they cannot make you do business with them, that would be involuntary servitude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288

okay
Anonymous Coward
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04/22/2013 07:43 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Harry Reid appears to be confused
Reddot13
User ID: 19594790
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04/22/2013 08:04 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
DOUBLESPEAK
Anonymous Coward
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05/06/2013 06:59 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
It is true that it is not law. I saw an article where one guy actually won in court a few years back. Unfortunately, that did not help the rest rotting in prison so I kept paying. I think they try to claim it is voluntary because you sign forms when you accept a job.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36848116

Link please
TraderRob

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05/06/2013 07:18 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
I get it, you have to understand what their definition of voluntary is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37968400


Hunh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37966417


The Senator was saying that "voluntary" means that you, the tax payer, are responsible for filing your taxes and paying them....as opposed to other countries where the government holds the employer solely responsible for withholding the taxes....

That was my understanding of what he was saying, anyway.
 Quoting: Dried Up Hag


You really need to talk to my employer... Those bastards take out about $900 a week for federal taxes.. Income, Medicare, etc.... I have no say in it.

Last Edited by Cap’n Obvious on 05/06/2013 07:18 PM
Have a nice day = GFY. GFY = Go Fuck Yourself. If this offends you then have a nice day.
Anonymous Coward
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05/15/2013 01:08 PM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
I get it, you have to understand what their definition of voluntary is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37968400


Hunh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37966417


The Senator was saying that "voluntary" means that you, the tax payer, are responsible for filing your taxes and paying them....as opposed to other countries where the government holds the employer solely responsible for withholding the taxes....

That was my understanding of what he was saying, anyway.
 Quoting: Dried Up Hag


You really need to talk to my employer... Those bastards take out about $900 a week for federal taxes.. Income, Medicare, etc.... I have no say in it.
 Quoting: TraderRob


Does your employer belong to a conservative group?
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2013 10:47 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
bump
davvi

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05/17/2013 10:49 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary


It is, really! ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37966417


This is quite amazing. Does anyone who pays taxes really think that paying taxes is "voluntary"?

The problem is that far too many in this country PAY NO TAXES so who cares what the rest of us have to pay?
Anonymous Coward
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05/17/2013 11:27 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Let's tell it very simply (as it was explained to me):

FRN = Federal Reserve Note

We VOLUNTARILY use FRNs rather than "lawful money." Our direct deposits are in FRNs (sneaky...now regulations require that we no longer get a Social Security check in the mail...it's gotta be direct deposit). Our digi-dollars are in FRNs. Our EBT cards are based on FRNs. The commonly used scrip is the FRN...but that's because it's easier. It's everywhere. Everyone's got them. I've got a sock full of them today.

We need to recognize that the law allows us to exchange the FRNs for "lawful money." We just have to take our FRNs to a member bank, or the Federal Reserve, etc., and exchange the FRNs for "lawful money." In the past, lawful money included gold or silver coins from the US Mint, a legally limited number of greenback dollars, etc. The FED is absolutely required to exchange the FRN for lawful money...but the onus is on we little people to make the effort to physically appear at the appropriate locations to make the exchange.

Who has time for that? Oh, I don't have time? Okay, then I voluntarily keep my FRNs. I have to what? Pay taxes for using the FRN as my medium of exchange? Day-um! Well, I guess so. Yes, I guess I did volunteer. Geez, this sucks.

So yes, we "voluntarily" pay our taxes because we "voluntarily" accept their printed FIAT money instead of the real "lawful money" and we have to pay rent (tribute) for that distinct voluntary pleasure.

By the way, there's a very finite amount of "lawful money" allowed out in the real world. I can't recall how much it is, but the amount is regulated by law. If too many people go to the Federal Bank and demand an exchange of LAWFUL MONEY for Federal Reserve Notes, the system could be crashed. That's the theory, anyway.

12 USC § 411 - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37729878



"Lawful money" is a term used in the Federal Reserve Act, the act that authorizes the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to issue Federal Reserve notes. The Act states that Federal Reserve notes "shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." The Act did not, however, define the term "lawful money," but up until 1913, the only currency issued by the United States that was legally recognized as "lawful money" was various issues of "demand notes" (subsequently known as "old demand notes") and "United States notes" authorized by Congress during the Civil War.

At the time, some currency was not considered legal tender, although it could be used by national banking associations as "lawful money reserves." Thus, the term "lawful money" had a broader meaning than the term "legal tender."

In 1933, Congress changed the law so that all U.S. coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes), regardless of when issued, constitutes "legal tender" for all purposes. Federal and state courts since then have repeatedly held that Federal Reserve notes are also "lawful money." Milam v. U.S., 524 F.2d 629 (9th Cir. 1974), is typical of the federal and state court cases holding that Federal Reserve notes are "lawful money." In Milam, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reviewed a judgment denying relief to an individual who sought to redeem a $50 Federal Reserve Bank Note in "lawful money." The United States tendered Milam $50 in Federal Reserve notes, but Milam refused the notes, asserting that "lawful money" must be gold or silver. The Ninth Circuit, noting that this matter had been put to rest by the U.S. Supreme Court nearly a century before in the Legal Tender Cases (Juilliard v. Greenman), 110 U.S. 421 (1884), rejected this assertion as frivolous and affirmed the judgment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6783888

$5000.00 fine for using this frivolous remedy
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35402988
Is Dirty Harry telling the truth?
davvi

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05/17/2013 11:28 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Frightening that this reid person has no clue about how taxes are confiscated from americans.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2013 07:16 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Frightening that this reid person has no clue about how taxes are confiscated from americans.
 Quoting: davvi
Don't forget about state income taxes. They steal from the common man as well.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2013 07:28 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Nobody is forced to endorse Federal Reserve private money! You do have a choice to use money issued tax free from the Treasury department and not pay income tax on it.

12 USC 411
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


WRONG!!!

All of you select this one law and try to use it against the IRS. If your going to accept that 1 law is valid then you accept that the others are just a valid.

Oh hey look at this law
26 USC § 61 - Gross income defined

Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived


Do you know what that means? The IRS is pretty thorough in explaining. It means ANYTHING that has value, you have to pay taxes on. So if you literally got paid peanuts all year long it would be your responsibility to convert some of those peanuts to legal tender and pay income tax.

It's all there, just like your FRN law. I hate it as much as you do, but the system is set up well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1375041


According to the US Code, what does the word "source" mean?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35402988
United States
05/18/2013 07:37 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Nobody is forced to endorse Federal Reserve private money! You do have a choice to use money issued tax free from the Treasury department and not pay income tax on it.

12 USC 411
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


WRONG!!!

All of you select this one law and try to use it against the IRS. If your going to accept that 1 law is valid then you accept that the others are just a valid.

Oh hey look at this law
26 USC § 61 - Gross income defined

Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, gross income means all income from whatever source derived


Do you know what that means? The IRS is pretty thorough in explaining. It means ANYTHING that has value, you have to pay taxes on. So if you literally got paid peanuts all year long it would be your responsibility to convert some of those peanuts to legal tender and pay income tax.

It's all there, just like your FRN law. I hate it as much as you do, but the system is set up well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1375041


According to the US Code, what does the word "source" mean?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40039467

First of all Mrs Intellectual. It's fraud and False conveyance of language. What you and your thieves/lawyers have done is made up your own language.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2013 07:40 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
People should call Harry and have him sign all IRS forms. Pay your taxes just remember have Harry sign them.
Anonymous Coward
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05/18/2013 11:30 AM
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Re: Senator Harry Reid Explains Why Paying US Income Tax Is Voluntary
Typical government double talk and rephrasing bullshit.





GLP