Is Logic a Belief? | |
Face Palmer
User ID: 1149868 Germany 04/12/2013 10:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Logic is a way of thinking, but it isn\'t a belief, more like a skill, to be able to think logically. Quoting: K.Kool Yes, logical thinking is better than the illogical one. Logical. "The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title." Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women |
K.Kool
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BRIEF
User ID: 381742 United States 04/12/2013 10:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And that is why I trust only logic. And see... I trust it, but with reason but the reason based on what I am trusting. You trust it because it's absolute...2+2 will always = 4 My ex-wife asked me once why we had to think logically, because she thought with her feelings, and I told her that we must think logically because abstract thinking is unpredictable and has dangerous results. I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
4Q529
User ID: 37910504 United States 04/12/2013 10:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Hold it. Who said that there is any such thing as "thinking"? Is "thinking" a verb? Does "thinking" require a 'thinker'? All of this is a violation of Occam's Razor: "Do not unnecessarily postulate multiplicity"; or "the simplest answer is the best answer". Thus, there is neither "thinking" nor a 'thinker'. There is only thought: the thought of the 'thinker' and the thought that there is a verb "to think". Can any of this be proven? Not at all. It is prior to thought. It can only be observed as being an accurate description. Michael |
4Q529
User ID: 37910504 United States 04/12/2013 10:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And that is why I trust only logic. And see... I trust it, but with reason but the reason based on what I am trusting. You trust it because it's absolute...2+2 will always = 4 My ex-wife asked me once why we had to think logically, because she thought with her feelings, and I told her that we must think logically because abstract thinking is unpredictable and has dangerous results. But, if you rely exclusively upon logic, you create a world without love; a world without love songs; a world without poetry of any kind; a heartless and vicious world... Something like the world we have right now. Michael |
BRIEF
User ID: 381742 United States 04/12/2013 10:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And that is why I trust only logic. And see... I trust it, but with reason but the reason based on what I am trusting. You trust it because it's absolute...2+2 will always = 4 My ex-wife asked me once why we had to think logically, because she thought with her feelings, and I told her that we must think logically because abstract thinking is unpredictable and has dangerous results. But, if you rely exclusively upon logic, you create a world without love; a world without love songs; a world without poetry of any kind; a heartless and vicious world... Something like the world we have right now. Michael That's why any decision should be run through logic after your heart... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
numewenon
(OP) User ID: 25749597 Canada 04/12/2013 10:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
numewenon
(OP) User ID: 25749597 Canada 04/12/2013 10:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | But, if you rely exclusively upon logic, you create a world without love; a world without love songs; a world without poetry of any kind; a heartless and vicious world... Quoting: 4Q529 Something like the world we have right now. Michael I can make a logical algorithm that expresses itself as art. But I guess the illogical thing is that I have a feeling for it. I see the beauty. |
numewenon
(OP) User ID: 25749597 Canada 04/12/2013 10:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 35552451 United States 04/12/2013 11:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Logic is what it is-- but we only see it through our brains which are biased. So do we believe in it? Quoting: numewenon My ultimate faith lies in logic. It also leads me to some very peculiar conclusions about life. They have similarities to aspects of Buddhism and some other concepts "preached" by people who meditate or do psychedelic drugs. So is my faith in logic basically like a faith in God? Or even a faith directly in God? Discuss. Please! (no this is not a bible thumping thread but everyone is welcome to say whatever) "The principles that guide reasoning within a given field or situation" The variable here is situation, the function applied is logic, and example is you have 2 apples and plan to eat one, subtract 1 from 2 and you have one left, that is logical. Logic has nothing to do with opinion, logic is realistic order. Now the existence of logic does not force people to be logical, and that's where the kicker is, as well as their downfall. Best example of logic is science. Any type. |
numewenon
(OP) User ID: 25749597 Canada 04/12/2013 11:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Logic is what it is-- but we only see it through our brains which are biased. So do we believe in it? Quoting: numewenon My ultimate faith lies in logic. It also leads me to some very peculiar conclusions about life. They have similarities to aspects of Buddhism and some other concepts "preached" by people who meditate or do psychedelic drugs. So is my faith in logic basically like a faith in God? Or even a faith directly in God? Discuss. Please! (no this is not a bible thumping thread but everyone is welcome to say whatever) "The principles that guide reasoning within a given field or situation" The variable here is situation, the function applied is logic, and example is you have 2 apples and plan to eat one, subtract 1 from 2 and you have one left, that is logical. Logic has nothing to do with opinion, logic is realistic order. Now the existence of logic does not force people to be logical, and that's where the kicker is, as well as their downfall. Best example of logic is science. Any type. What if the situation is not science in the classic sense, but a single personal perspective that cannot be proven by anyone but the observer. |
morbo
User ID: 36550531 Slovakia 04/12/2013 11:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | imho logic is number of steps evaluated (at least one), where the assumed result (of something, some event ...) will be the same as in reality. it is not fortune-telling, because this can be evaluated by any entity, anywhere and anytime.. thus it is (something ...) 'logical'. it has been observed many times before and it is easy to see what is going to happen => logic. anyhow, great threads OP - only the truth... - 100% hominid - pure love |
numewenon
(OP) User ID: 25749597 Canada 04/12/2013 11:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | imho logic is number of steps evaluated (at least one), where the assumed result (of something, some event ...) will be the same as in reality. it is not fortune-telling, because this can be evaluated by any entity, anywhere and anytime.. thus it is (something ...) 'logical'. it has been observed many times before and it is easy to see what is going to happen => logic. Quoting: morbo anyhow, great threads OP Thanks! The real basis which allows logic to happen as the entity observes it is intangible I guess isn't it? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1561325 United States 04/12/2013 11:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
BRIEF
User ID: 381742 United States 04/12/2013 12:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | logic as a practical tool for living in this universe. As for this experience, I guess it doesn't matter if logic is real or not. It works. Logic is what intelligent people use, right brained people become Liberals and communists... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
4Q529
User ID: 27609792 United States 04/12/2013 12:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Logic is a way of thinking, but it isn't a belief, more like a skill, to be able to think logically. Quoting: K.Kool Again, like a practical tool/skill. I suppose I don't believe in a hammer or my ability to use one. or do i? Logic is a tool of consciousness. It is useful in science and in dealing with many aspects of the real world. But it is of no particular use in dealing with women, for example. Not a criticism or condemnation, merely a statement of fact. Many women are even honest enough with themselves to acknowledge that logic is not their "major suit". They deal primarily on the basis of feelings. So, what needs to be done is for a person to stand back and approach each situation from the perspective of choosing the right tool in order to understand that situation. When you listen to the words of a love song, you are not interested in the logic. You are interested in the accuracy of the images and the words in describing an experience beyond logic. Those very same images and words are of no use in determining the logical truth of a statement in science. Michael |
morbo
User ID: 36550531 Slovakia 04/12/2013 12:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | imho logic is number of steps evaluated (at least one), where the assumed result (of something, some event ...) will be the same as in reality. it is not fortune-telling, because this can be evaluated by any entity, anywhere and anytime.. thus it is (something ...) 'logical'. it has been observed many times before and it is easy to see what is going to happen => logic. Quoting: morbo anyhow, great threads OP Thanks! The real basis which allows logic to happen as the entity observes it is intangible I guess isn't it? it depends on how far you are willing to go... at certain point, the logic will disappear.. 'logic' as i understand it, has meaning only in 'gross material' world we experience to be alive in. i believe there are many layers(levels) of energy(to be) state (e.g. gross material, material, astral, spiritual ...) which goes both ways. this is my belief, i cannot support it ;) but the point is, that we are talking about 'logic' in our 'gross material' world... otherwise you are right, imho :) - only the truth... - 100% hominid - pure love |
numewenon
(OP) User ID: 25749597 Canada 04/12/2013 12:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I tend to think of logic as the most prolific box our minds are herded into. Quoting: Demon Cat in the Blue Basket That's why we live in a logical world. I would rather live in an illogical world, TBH. Like the world of dreams. Here is an interesting thing that I have pondered upon... I have had dreams where logic was not working as it is in waking reality. In these dreams things could be 2 different things but be the same thing. it made sense in the dream. It made sense on the same level that logic makes sense to me in this waking world. I know it is purely my own experience, but I existed as an independent reality; a reality in which logic was different. It did not matter that there was another reality in which logic is like it is in the waking reality.... because there was no observer of this reality or its logic.... just the dream reality. Gah. my brain is having a hard time expressing these concepts as words today... losing my grip on reality or something :( hope someone can translate what i am trying to say lol. |
numewenon
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my perception of you is good
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BRIEF
User ID: 381742 United States 04/12/2013 12:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | logical according to whom? logical to me might be illogical to you. Quoting: my perception of you is good That would be like debating math...logic is yes or no there is no maybe I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
morbo
User ID: 36550531 Slovakia 04/12/2013 12:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1561325 United States 04/12/2013 12:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I tend to think of logic as the most prolific box our minds are herded into. Quoting: Demon Cat in the Blue Basket That's why we live in a logical world. I would rather live in an illogical world, TBH. Like the world of dreams. Here is an interesting thing that I have pondered upon... I have had dreams where logic was not working as it is in waking reality. In these dreams things could be 2 different things but be the same thing. it made sense in the dream. It made sense on the same level that logic makes sense to me in this waking world. I know it is purely my own experience, but I existed as an independent reality; a reality in which logic was different. It did not matter that there was another reality in which logic is like it is in the waking reality.... because there was no observer of this reality or its logic.... just the dream reality. Gah. my brain is having a hard time expressing these concepts as words today... losing my grip on reality or something :( hope someone can translate what i am trying to say lol. In a dream, it is possible to 'see' something from more than one perspective. You 'see' things from your own perspective and from the perspective of your inner psyche, soul, spirit, guides, etc - whatever your beliefs may attune to - at the same time. That's precisely what logic is - seeing something from a traditionally intelligent, scientific way - but most importantly from a single perspective. A logical argument has one path. Any divergence into esoteric or emotional thought is leaving the beaten logical trail. Bringing an opposing argument into perspective is not a logical process, therefore an object simultaneously being observed through two or more different perspectives is not logically feasible. |
numewenon
(OP) User ID: 25749597 Canada 04/12/2013 12:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | logical according to whom? logical to me might be illogical to you. Quoting: my perception of you is good That would be like debating math...logic is yes or no there is no maybe If you are following logic correctly, there is no way something can differ between to perfectly logical people. But there are people who get logic "wrong" and perceive other's logic as wrong. When it comes to any practical situation in this universe this all seems to be the case. but then.. if you assume the universe inside an illogical person's mind could said to exist independently of the universe of a logical person's mind (only if you are the illogical perceiver) The only logic that exists in that mind is a relatively weird logic, but it cannot be compared to standard logic, because we are assuming that the universe of the illogical person's mind is the only thing in play. We used logic to get to this conclusion though, so logic must still be in play, so the person is just downright mad... or something... or my assumption cannot be made logically because I have no way of saying that another person in this world experiences anything but myself. |
numewenon
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numewenon
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numewenon
(OP) User ID: 25749597 Canada 04/12/2013 12:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I tend to think of logic as the most prolific box our minds are herded into. Quoting: Demon Cat in the Blue Basket That's why we live in a logical world. I would rather live in an illogical world, TBH. Like the world of dreams. Here is an interesting thing that I have pondered upon... I have had dreams where logic was not working as it is in waking reality. In these dreams things could be 2 different things but be the same thing. it made sense in the dream. It made sense on the same level that logic makes sense to me in this waking world. I know it is purely my own experience, but I existed as an independent reality; a reality in which logic was different. It did not matter that there was another reality in which logic is like it is in the waking reality.... because there was no observer of this reality or its logic.... just the dream reality. Gah. my brain is having a hard time expressing these concepts as words today... losing my grip on reality or something :( hope someone can translate what i am trying to say lol. In a dream, it is possible to 'see' something from more than one perspective. You 'see' things from your own perspective and from the perspective of your inner psyche, soul, spirit, guides, etc - whatever your beliefs may attune to - at the same time. That's precisely what logic is - seeing something from a traditionally intelligent, scientific way - but most importantly from a single perspective. A logical argument has one path. Any divergence into esoteric or emotional thought is leaving the beaten logical trail. Bringing an opposing argument into perspective is not a logical process, therefore an object simultaneously being observed through two or more different perspectives is not logically feasible. I'm going to try logic experiments in my dreams. I have some Calea Zacetachihi growing here. |