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Is Logic a Belief?

 
Face Palmer

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04/12/2013 10:19 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is a way of thinking, but it isn\'t a belief, more like a skill, to be able to think logically.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Yes, logical thinking is better than the illogical one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1540638


Logical.
"The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title."

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The woman who is not pursued sets up the doctrine that pursuit is offensive to her sex, and wants to make it a felony. No genuinely attractive woman has any such desire. - H.L. Mencken, In Defense Of Women
K.Kool

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04/12/2013 10:20 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is a way of thinking, but it isn\'t a belief, more like a skill, to be able to think logically.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Yes, logical thinking is better than the illogical one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1540638




rockon
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/12/2013 10:21 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is a way of thinking, but it isn\\\'t a belief, more like a skill, to be able to think logically.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Yes, logical thinking is better than the illogical one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1540638


Logical.
 Quoting: Face Palmer


Still ... not all is logical, by far.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13718874
Netherlands
04/12/2013 10:21 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
its a connection thing
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
04/12/2013 10:22 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
belief < ?
one sided like open space
BRIEF

User ID: 381742
United States
04/12/2013 10:29 AM

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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is provable...it asks if this, then that, and so on and so forth...
 Quoting: BRIEF


And that is why I trust only logic. And see... I trust it, but with reason but the reason based on what I am trusting.
 Quoting: numewenon


You trust it because it's absolute...2+2 will always = 4

My ex-wife asked me once why we had to think logically, because she thought with her feelings, and I told her that we must think logically because abstract thinking is unpredictable and has dangerous results.
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
4Q529

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04/12/2013 10:33 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Your way of thinking is caught in duality of opposites.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1540638


Hold it.

Who said that there is any such thing as "thinking"?

Is "thinking" a verb?

Does "thinking" require a 'thinker'?

All of this is a violation of Occam's Razor: "Do not unnecessarily postulate multiplicity"; or "the simplest answer is the best answer".

Thus, there is neither "thinking" nor a 'thinker'.

There is only thought: the thought of the 'thinker' and the thought that there is a verb "to think".

Can any of this be proven?

Not at all.

It is prior to thought.

It can only be observed as being an accurate description.

Michael
4Q529

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04/12/2013 10:36 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is provable...it asks if this, then that, and so on and so forth...
 Quoting: BRIEF


And that is why I trust only logic. And see... I trust it, but with reason but the reason based on what I am trusting.
 Quoting: numewenon


You trust it because it's absolute...2+2 will always = 4

My ex-wife asked me once why we had to think logically, because she thought with her feelings, and I told her that we must think logically because abstract thinking is unpredictable and has dangerous results.
 Quoting: BRIEF


But, if you rely exclusively upon logic, you create a world without love; a world without love songs; a world without poetry of any kind; a heartless and vicious world...

Something like the world we have right now.

Michael
BRIEF

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04/12/2013 10:40 AM

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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is provable...it asks if this, then that, and so on and so forth...
 Quoting: BRIEF


And that is why I trust only logic. And see... I trust it, but with reason but the reason based on what I am trusting.
 Quoting: numewenon


You trust it because it's absolute...2+2 will always = 4

My ex-wife asked me once why we had to think logically, because she thought with her feelings, and I told her that we must think logically because abstract thinking is unpredictable and has dangerous results.
 Quoting: BRIEF


But, if you rely exclusively upon logic, you create a world without love; a world without love songs; a world without poetry of any kind; a heartless and vicious world...

Something like the world we have right now.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


That's why any decision should be run through logic after your heart...
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 10:56 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
That's why any decision should be run through logic after your heart...
 Quoting: BRIEF


logic as a practical tool for living in this universe.

As for this experience, I guess it doesn't matter if logic is real or not. It works.
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 10:57 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
But, if you rely exclusively upon logic, you create a world without love; a world without love songs; a world without poetry of any kind; a heartless and vicious world...

Something like the world we have right now.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I can make a logical algorithm that expresses itself as art. But I guess the illogical thing is that I have a feeling for it. I see the beauty.
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 10:59 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is a way of thinking, but it isn't a belief, more like a skill, to be able to think logically.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Again, like a practical tool/skill.

I suppose I don't believe in a hammer or my ability to use one. or do i?
Anonymous Coward
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04/12/2013 11:03 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is what it is-- but we only see it through our brains which are biased. So do we believe in it?

My ultimate faith lies in logic. It also leads me to some very peculiar conclusions about life. They have similarities to aspects of Buddhism and some other concepts "preached" by people who meditate or do psychedelic drugs.

So is my faith in logic basically like a faith in God? Or even a faith directly in God?

Discuss. Please! (no this is not a bible thumping thread but everyone is welcome to say whatever)
 Quoting: numewenon


"The principles that guide reasoning within a given field or situation"

The variable here is situation, the function applied is logic, and example is you have 2 apples and plan to eat one, subtract 1 from 2 and you have one left, that is logical. Logic has nothing to do with opinion, logic is realistic order. Now the existence of logic does not force people to be logical, and that's where the kicker is, as well as their downfall. Best example of logic is science. Any type.
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 11:14 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is what it is-- but we only see it through our brains which are biased. So do we believe in it?

My ultimate faith lies in logic. It also leads me to some very peculiar conclusions about life. They have similarities to aspects of Buddhism and some other concepts "preached" by people who meditate or do psychedelic drugs.

So is my faith in logic basically like a faith in God? Or even a faith directly in God?

Discuss. Please! (no this is not a bible thumping thread but everyone is welcome to say whatever)
 Quoting: numewenon


"The principles that guide reasoning within a given field or situation"

The variable here is situation, the function applied is logic, and example is you have 2 apples and plan to eat one, subtract 1 from 2 and you have one left, that is logical. Logic has nothing to do with opinion, logic is realistic order. Now the existence of logic does not force people to be logical, and that's where the kicker is, as well as their downfall. Best example of logic is science. Any type.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35552451


What if the situation is not science in the classic sense, but a single personal perspective that cannot be proven by anyone but the observer.
morbo

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Slovakia
04/12/2013 11:29 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
imho logic is number of steps evaluated (at least one), where the assumed result (of something, some event ...) will be the same as in reality. it is not fortune-telling, because this can be evaluated by any entity, anywhere and anytime.. thus it is (something ...) 'logical'. it has been observed many times before and it is easy to see what is going to happen => logic.

anyhow, great threads OP hf

bump
- only the truth...
- 100% hominid
- pure love
numewenon  (OP)

User ID: 25749597
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04/12/2013 11:55 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
imho logic is number of steps evaluated (at least one), where the assumed result (of something, some event ...) will be the same as in reality. it is not fortune-telling, because this can be evaluated by any entity, anywhere and anytime.. thus it is (something ...) 'logical'. it has been observed many times before and it is easy to see what is going to happen => logic.

anyhow, great threads OP hf

bump
 Quoting: morbo


Thanks!

The real basis which allows logic to happen as the entity observes it is intangible I guess isn't it?
Anonymous Coward
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04/12/2013 11:59 AM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
I tend to think of logic as the most prolific box our minds are herded into.

That's why we live in a logical world.

I would rather live in an illogical world, TBH.
BRIEF

User ID: 381742
United States
04/12/2013 12:03 PM

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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
That's why any decision should be run through logic after your heart...
 Quoting: BRIEF


logic as a practical tool for living in this universe.

As for this experience, I guess it doesn't matter if logic is real or not. It works.
 Quoting: numewenon


Logic is what intelligent people use, right brained people become Liberals and communists...
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
4Q529

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04/12/2013 12:10 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Logic is a way of thinking, but it isn't a belief, more like a skill, to be able to think logically.
 Quoting: K.Kool


Again, like a practical tool/skill.

I suppose I don't believe in a hammer or my ability to use one. or do i?
 Quoting: numewenon


Logic is a tool of consciousness.

It is useful in science and in dealing with many aspects of the real world.

But it is of no particular use in dealing with women, for example.

Not a criticism or condemnation, merely a statement of fact. Many women are even honest enough with themselves to acknowledge that logic is not their "major suit". They deal primarily on the basis of feelings.

So, what needs to be done is for a person to stand back and approach each situation from the perspective of choosing the right tool in order to understand that situation.

When you listen to the words of a love song, you are not interested in the logic. You are interested in the accuracy of the images and the words in describing an experience beyond logic.

Those very same images and words are of no use in determining the logical truth of a statement in science.

Michael
morbo

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Slovakia
04/12/2013 12:13 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
imho logic is number of steps evaluated (at least one), where the assumed result (of something, some event ...) will be the same as in reality. it is not fortune-telling, because this can be evaluated by any entity, anywhere and anytime.. thus it is (something ...) 'logical'. it has been observed many times before and it is easy to see what is going to happen => logic.

anyhow, great threads OP hf

bump
 Quoting: morbo


Thanks!

The real basis which allows logic to happen as the entity observes it is intangible I guess isn't it?
 Quoting: numewenon


it depends on how far you are willing to go... at certain point, the logic will disappear.. 'logic' as i understand it, has meaning only in 'gross material' world we experience to be alive in.

i believe there are many layers(levels) of energy(to be) state (e.g. gross material, material, astral, spiritual ...) which goes both ways. this is my belief, i cannot support it ;)

but the point is, that we are talking about 'logic' in our 'gross material' world... otherwise you are right, imho :)
- only the truth...
- 100% hominid
- pure love
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 12:13 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
I tend to think of logic as the most prolific box our minds are herded into.

That's why we live in a logical world.

I would rather live in an illogical world, TBH.
 Quoting: Demon Cat in the Blue Basket


Like the world of dreams.

Here is an interesting thing that I have pondered upon...

I have had dreams where logic was not working as it is in waking reality. In these dreams things could be 2 different things but be the same thing. it made sense in the dream. It made sense on the same level that logic makes sense to me in this waking world.

I know it is purely my own experience, but I existed as an independent reality; a reality in which logic was different. It did not matter that there was another reality in which logic is like it is in the waking reality.... because there was no observer of this reality or its logic.... just the dream reality.

Gah. my brain is having a hard time expressing these concepts as words today... losing my grip on reality or something :( hope someone can translate what i am trying to say lol.
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 12:14 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
Thanks for all the posts ppl btw this is fun

I wish I had more Karma to give !
my perception of you is good

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04/12/2013 12:15 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
logical according to whom? logical to me might be illogical to you.
conformity is the antithesis of free thought and self-determination.
BRIEF

User ID: 381742
United States
04/12/2013 12:23 PM

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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
logical according to whom? logical to me might be illogical to you.
 Quoting: my perception of you is good


That would be like debating math...logic is yes or no there is no maybe
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
morbo

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Slovakia
04/12/2013 12:26 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
logical according to whom? logical to me might be illogical to you.
 Quoting: my perception of you is good


you are talking about 'point of view' (subjectiveness) i think.
logic should be more 'universal' (i.e. independent from subjectiveness ;)
- only the truth...
- 100% hominid
- pure love
Anonymous Coward
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04/12/2013 12:28 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
I tend to think of logic as the most prolific box our minds are herded into.

That's why we live in a logical world.

I would rather live in an illogical world, TBH.
 Quoting: Demon Cat in the Blue Basket


Like the world of dreams.

Here is an interesting thing that I have pondered upon...

I have had dreams where logic was not working as it is in waking reality. In these dreams things could be 2 different things but be the same thing. it made sense in the dream. It made sense on the same level that logic makes sense to me in this waking world.

I know it is purely my own experience, but I existed as an independent reality; a reality in which logic was different. It did not matter that there was another reality in which logic is like it is in the waking reality.... because there was no observer of this reality or its logic.... just the dream reality.

Gah. my brain is having a hard time expressing these concepts as words today... losing my grip on reality or something :( hope someone can translate what i am trying to say lol.
 Quoting: numewenon


In a dream, it is possible to 'see' something from more than one perspective. You 'see' things from your own perspective and from the perspective of your inner psyche, soul, spirit, guides, etc - whatever your beliefs may attune to - at the same time.

That's precisely what logic is - seeing something from a traditionally intelligent, scientific way - but most importantly from a single perspective.

A logical argument has one path. Any divergence into esoteric or emotional thought is leaving the beaten logical trail. Bringing an opposing argument into perspective is not a logical process, therefore an object simultaneously being observed through two or more different perspectives is not logically feasible.
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 12:51 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
logical according to whom? logical to me might be illogical to you.
 Quoting: my perception of you is good


That would be like debating math...logic is yes or no there is no maybe
 Quoting: BRIEF


If you are following logic correctly, there is no way something can differ between to perfectly logical people.

But there are people who get logic "wrong" and perceive other's logic as wrong.

When it comes to any practical situation in this universe this all seems to be the case.

but then.. if you assume the universe inside an illogical person's mind could said to exist independently of the universe of a logical person's mind (only if you are the illogical perceiver) The only logic that exists in that mind is a relatively weird logic, but it cannot be compared to standard logic, because we are assuming that the universe of the illogical person's mind is the only thing in play. We used logic to get to this conclusion though, so logic must still be in play, so the person is just downright mad... or something... or my assumption cannot be made logically because I have no way of saying that another person in this world experiences anything but myself.
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 12:56 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
I gow lome kipper chit latli. hi forgot no joyland driving sexy. Kikikiki. Hi Jim. No telephones? Narpits like sauce.

Was this got limits on part

Lio Lo Lo Lala

Jow Ni haw

Give me a tape calkuater
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 12:56 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
sorry I wanted to try no logic writing
numewenon  (OP)

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04/12/2013 12:58 PM
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Re: Is Logic a Belief?
I tend to think of logic as the most prolific box our minds are herded into.

That's why we live in a logical world.

I would rather live in an illogical world, TBH.
 Quoting: Demon Cat in the Blue Basket


Like the world of dreams.

Here is an interesting thing that I have pondered upon...

I have had dreams where logic was not working as it is in waking reality. In these dreams things could be 2 different things but be the same thing. it made sense in the dream. It made sense on the same level that logic makes sense to me in this waking world.

I know it is purely my own experience, but I existed as an independent reality; a reality in which logic was different. It did not matter that there was another reality in which logic is like it is in the waking reality.... because there was no observer of this reality or its logic.... just the dream reality.

Gah. my brain is having a hard time expressing these concepts as words today... losing my grip on reality or something :( hope someone can translate what i am trying to say lol.
 Quoting: numewenon


In a dream, it is possible to 'see' something from more than one perspective. You 'see' things from your own perspective and from the perspective of your inner psyche, soul, spirit, guides, etc - whatever your beliefs may attune to - at the same time.

That's precisely what logic is - seeing something from a traditionally intelligent, scientific way - but most importantly from a single perspective.

A logical argument has one path. Any divergence into esoteric or emotional thought is leaving the beaten logical trail. Bringing an opposing argument into perspective is not a logical process, therefore an object simultaneously being observed through two or more different perspectives is not logically feasible.
 Quoting: Demon Cat in the Blue Basket


I'm going to try logic experiments in my dreams. I have some Calea Zacetachihi growing here.





GLP