The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics | |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 844228 United States 01/22/2013 01:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | For entertainment purposes only and not meant as veterinarian advice or medical advice: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17851333 For cats with colds (upper respiratory infection) 50mg of amoxycillin 2 times a day. 10 to 14 days. Dose of Flagyl for cats with diarrhea is 40 mg 2 times a day. FIVE DAYS ONLY! Do not give longer without vet approval. Doxycycline will become toxic after the expiration date. This is one anti-biotic that does not just become weaker with age. Throw it out if it is past the date on the bottle. Thanks for weighing in on cats...I don't know much about them....hubby is allergic to them (or so he claims) Thanks for reminding me about the doxycycline issue, I got carried away with the pregnancy and child warnings and did not get that typed in. Expired doxycycline can cause kidney damage, and I will add it right away. The DOD has actually studied the shelf life of most drugs in their shelf life extension program (SLEP). [link to www.usamma.amedd.army.mil] What they have found that mostly tablets and capsules have a very long shelf life especially if stored in a cool, dry place. In their newer study, (2012) The major categories affected by self life were liquids and especially insulin. Aspirin and amphetamines were also affected. [link to www.medpagetoday.com] [link to archinte.jamanetwork.com] [link to www.aahs.org] [link to ofcaems.org] [link to www.defense.gov] Appreciate the comments...for entertainment and discussion purposes only. Last Edited by emerald eye on 01/22/2013 01:44 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32399386 United States 01/22/2013 01:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 28070593 United Kingdom 01/22/2013 01:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Doxycycline will become toxic after the expiration date. This is one anti-biotic that does not just become weaker with age. Throw it out if it is past the date on the bottle. Quoting: emerald eye The DOD has actually studied the shelf life of most drugs in their shelf life extension program (SLEP). What they have found that mostly tablets and capsules have a very long shelf life especially if stored in a cool, dry place. In their newer study, (2012) The major categories affected by self life were liquids and especially insulin. Aspirin and amphetamines were also affected. Indeed that sounds correct, off the top of my head im not even sure if hydrolysis of other antibiotic compounds can produce toxic byproducts over time. I think with beta lactams it just degrades them. Dont quote me on that though. Pretty sure the toxicity when stored is limited to Tetracyclines. Most medications do degrade over time, but they generally just lose potency. Insulin and anti angina medications have issues with storage i believe. Hydrochloride salt medications and the like etc should keep a long time so long as kept free from light, heat, moisture etc. |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 844228 United States 01/22/2013 01:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You made a comment about Cipro inducing deafness if taken for 2 or 3 days. Why don't you fully explain yourself ? It's easy to criticize but why not educate us with what you know ? Quoting: Morpheus Apparently rare side effect for Cipro in humans and hasn't been conclusively shown in animal models, however a casual glance around the internet on forums says otherwise. Dont just take my word for it, google 'tinnitus cipro' ' cipro hearing loss' etc. Seems plenty of people have been having hearing related side effects. Potential deafness due to toxicity is a known side effect of some potent injected antibiotics such as Gentamicin. I'm not saying dont ever take cipro, id rather risk being deaf than dead, but i think it would be a shame for unaware people to buy cipro on the internet and then take it when they have an infected fingernail only to suffer partial hearing loss within a week and not know why. Ototoxicity with Ciprofloxin is rare. From the BJM: "Tinnitus is not generally recognised as an adverse reaction to treatment with ciprofloxacin. An incidence of only three cases per 9473 courses of treatment has been reported, and animal studies have failed to associate ciprofloxacin with ototoxicity." [link to www.bmj.com] [link to www.researchgate.net] That being said, any antibiotic can be associated with serious side effects, and therefore this discussion is only intended as entertainment for the fictional scenario in which access to a qualified heath care provider is impossible. Hugs to all... Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32399386 United States 01/22/2013 02:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Hey op just wondering if ya ever looked at the livestock antibiotics tsc sells in there stores they have the same names as the fish ones. and there just add water and dosage on back by weight those should work also ? u think ? I bought 2 lbs of erythromycin for around 15.00 |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 844228 United States 01/22/2013 02:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In doing this list, I placed Ciprofloxin and Doxycycline at # 5 or last on the list because they probably have the most risks for use aside from allergic reactions and C. Diff. That being said, They are both broad spectrum and cover a lot of things that would be difficult to treat without them. See table 4 in this paper for biological warfare situations if you get my drift... (someone asked about this earlier) (click skip the stupid ad): [link to www.aafp.org] [link to www.aafp.org] As mentioned previously: That being said, any antibiotic can be associated with serious side effects, and therefore this discussion is only intended as entertainment for the fictional scenario in which access to a qualified heath care provider is impossible. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32724170 Canada 01/22/2013 02:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 28070593 United Kingdom 01/22/2013 02:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thats the story, a quick google may indicate otherwise. A few studies have noted only recorded cases in a few people out of thousands. Animal studies have not shown any hearing dammage. However, the studies may be flawed, contributory factors such as high blood pressure and genetics, or animal models being a poor indication may be part of this. Just google, 'Cipro tinnitus' ' cipro hearing loss' Plenty of random forums and websites with people talking about it, some people have claimed hearing damage after 12-24 hours of taking cipro. |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 844228 United States 01/22/2013 02:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Hey op just wondering if ya ever looked at the livestock antibiotics tsc sells in there stores they have the same names as the fish ones. and there just add water and dosage on back by weight those should work also ? u think ? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32399386 I bought 2 lbs of erythromycin for around 15.00 Good question. It is my opinion that most of the fish tablets and capsules are manufactured for human use, and then purchased by the companies that then market them for fish, and are thus repackaged for non-human use, so that seems more intuitive to me. The antibiotics that are sold in the feed store are specifically manufactured for the animals that they are sold for. That being said, they are basically similar, but sometimes have other things mixed in. Also the proportions are different, and you could easily overdose on something without careful weights to the milligram (one thousandth of a gram) That being said, I grew up on a farm-ranch, and I can tell you that many old ranchers will routinely dose themselves the same things that they treat their livestock with. This is not of course recommended practice, but I know plenty of them who are 80-90 years old and have not yet killed themselves, so take it FWIW. Once again: That being said, any antibiotic can be associated with serious side effects, and therefore this discussion is only intended as entertainment for the fictional scenario in which access to a qualified heath care provider is impossible. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 844228 United States 01/22/2013 02:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thats the story, a quick google may indicate otherwise. A few studies have noted only recorded cases in a few people out of thousands. Animal studies have not shown any hearing dammage. However, the studies may be flawed, contributory factors such as high blood pressure and genetics, or animal models being a poor indication may be part of this. Just google, 'Cipro tinnitus' ' cipro hearing loss' Plenty of random forums and websites with people talking about it, some people have claimed hearing damage after 12-24 hours of taking cipro. I respect your opinion, however in anthrax (and other ugly things) vs. Cipro (in a theoretical situation of course only being discussed for entertainment), I would probably choose the Cipro. (Later generation Quinolones are probably better, but to my knowledge Cipro is the only one available as a fish antibiotic.) Once again, for those who are interested, please see table 4 in this article. That is my real point. [link to www.aafp.org] That being said, any antibiotic can be associated with serious side effects, and therefore this discussion is only intended as entertainment for the fictional scenario in which access to a qualified heath care provider is impossible. I need to run some errands, but will check back later. Hugs, ee. Last Edited by emerald eye on 01/22/2013 02:33 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Epic Beard Guy
User ID: 26240425 United States 01/22/2013 03:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | For important content (although just theoretical). Everyone should know this before TSHTF. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe |
Epic Beard Guy
User ID: 26240425 United States 01/22/2013 04:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thats the story, a quick google may indicate otherwise. A few studies have noted only recorded cases in a few people out of thousands. Animal studies have not shown any hearing dammage. However, the studies may be flawed, contributory factors such as high blood pressure and genetics, or animal models being a poor indication may be part of this. Just google, 'Cipro tinnitus' ' cipro hearing loss' Plenty of random forums and websites with people talking about it, some people have claimed hearing damage after 12-24 hours of taking cipro. If you go back and read some of her other threads, you will that EE researches these questions quite thoroughly. I doubt she has missed any claims, and incorporates credible ones into her posts. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 29992561 United States 01/22/2013 06:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Many thanks to whoever green pinned this...I didn't think it would get much attention, but I do feel the information is important, mainly for entertainment and discussion reasons of course. Quoting: emerald eye To those of you who have said that antibiotics can kill you, you are absolutely correct. Even in the hands of qualified professionals, there can be serious and even fatal adverse effects with the use of antibiotics. The reason that I decided to post this information is that in true a SHTF situation, people are less likely to use them incorrectly if they have some basic information, and know some of the indications for use and also some of what to watch out for. The bottom line is that with even a little information, antibiotics are less likely to kill you than with no information at all in a desperate situation. Of course there is no way that a small list like this can be all inclusive, and no one should take any antibiotic not supervised by a competent health care provider in normal circumstances. Therefore this discussion is entirely fictional for the fictional world in which there is no access to a competent health care provider. May that situation always stay within the realm of fiction.... To those of you who asked about radiation, here is an old thread of mine.... Thread: **RADIATION PROTECTION**- non prescription list, revised and updated. Good luck to us all... Please unpin this and take this down. Serious preppers will find this out on their own. Posting it just helps ensure they will take these off the market and then we are really screwed. |
Epic Beard Guy
User ID: 26240425 United States 01/22/2013 07:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Many thanks to whoever green pinned this...I didn't think it would get much attention, but I do feel the information is important, mainly for entertainment and discussion reasons of course. Quoting: emerald eye To those of you who have said that antibiotics can kill you, you are absolutely correct. Even in the hands of qualified professionals, there can be serious and even fatal adverse effects with the use of antibiotics. The reason that I decided to post this information is that in true a SHTF situation, people are less likely to use them incorrectly if they have some basic information, and know some of the indications for use and also some of what to watch out for. The bottom line is that with even a little information, antibiotics are less likely to kill you than with no information at all in a desperate situation. Of course there is no way that a small list like this can be all inclusive, and no one should take any antibiotic not supervised by a competent health care provider in normal circumstances. Therefore this discussion is entirely fictional for the fictional world in which there is no access to a competent health care provider. May that situation always stay within the realm of fiction.... To those of you who asked about radiation, here is an old thread of mine.... Thread: **RADIATION PROTECTION**- non prescription list, revised and updated. Good luck to us all... Please unpin this and take this down. Serious preppers will find this out on their own. Posting it just helps ensure they will take these off the market and then we are really screwed. This is not news. This information has been out there for years. And you are right, serious preppers did find this out a long time ago. They will not take these meds off the market. They are needed by people with fish, birds and other animals. I have antibiotics for my chickens, and everyone that raises fish for food has the same antibiotics we are talking about today. Taking these off the market would be a crippling blow to our food supplies. It hasn't been a secret for a long time. Informed preppers have known this for years. I'm sorry if nobody told you. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 29122676 United States 01/22/2013 07:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32793766 Germany 01/22/2013 07:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 29992561 United States 01/22/2013 08:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Many thanks to whoever green pinned this...I didn't think it would get much attention, but I do feel the information is important, mainly for entertainment and discussion reasons of course. Quoting: emerald eye To those of you who have said that antibiotics can kill you, you are absolutely correct. Even in the hands of qualified professionals, there can be serious and even fatal adverse effects with the use of antibiotics. The reason that I decided to post this information is that in true a SHTF situation, people are less likely to use them incorrectly if they have some basic information, and know some of the indications for use and also some of what to watch out for. The bottom line is that with even a little information, antibiotics are less likely to kill you than with no information at all in a desperate situation. Of course there is no way that a small list like this can be all inclusive, and no one should take any antibiotic not supervised by a competent health care provider in normal circumstances. Therefore this discussion is entirely fictional for the fictional world in which there is no access to a competent health care provider. May that situation always stay within the realm of fiction.... To those of you who asked about radiation, here is an old thread of mine.... Thread: **RADIATION PROTECTION**- non prescription list, revised and updated. Good luck to us all... Please unpin this and take this down. Serious preppers will find this out on their own. Posting it just helps ensure they will take these off the market and then we are really screwed. This is not news. This information has been out there for years. And you are right, serious preppers did find this out a long time ago. They will not take these meds off the market. They are needed by people with fish, birds and other animals. I have antibiotics for my chickens, and everyone that raises fish for food has the same antibiotics we are talking about today. Taking these off the market would be a crippling blow to our food supplies. It hasn't been a secret for a long time. Informed preppers have known this for years. I'm sorry if nobody told you. "They will not take these meds off the market. They are needed by people with fish, birds and other animals." O'rly? Tried buying a bottle of Polar Pure Iodine water purifier lately? The one with a little pinch of Iodine crystals in the bottom of a little glass bottle, that could purify enough water to last some a year? It's been "banned" and is no longer for sale. Don't underestimate what they won't do. They don't want you to have clean water, and they don't want you ro have antibiotics either. They want you completely dependant on them. |
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F. User ID: 31123477 United States 01/22/2013 09:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 5 stars for very useful information for a SHTF scenario. Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies..... Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. ~H. L. Mencken~ We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. ~Plato~ When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic. ~Dresden James~ |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32842345 Uruguay 01/22/2013 09:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ciprofloxin is very dangerous, it literally eats your tendons and you start with pains, some people ends with serious conditions. There is only one antibiotic which is superior to all you list, its a gas so it reachs everywhere, it doesnt reacts with your cells only with pathogens while being more potent than ozone, its cheap, its ultra wide spectrum, it doesnt creates resistent superbugs, etcetcet... Its sodium chlorite + 5 drops lemon per drop of sodium chlorite reacts to form chlorine dioxide, add water, drink. Chlorine dioxide is a miracolus molecule. It also good for parasites, virus (you have to take small doses very frequently to fight viruses), etcetc. Its one of the biggest conspiracies ive had the pleasure to try for myself, as well as with my daughter, wife, heck i even cured some skin cancer lesions that my grandmom had, she also had some nasty coughing that disappread, ive since learn that due to hes symptoms they prolly were lung parasites, ewww! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32842345 Uruguay 01/22/2013 09:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32674471 United States 01/22/2013 09:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 10833631 United States 01/22/2013 10:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Please unpin this and take this down. Serious preppers will find this out on their own. Posting it just helps ensure they will take these off the market and then we are really screwed. Quoting: emerald eye (BTW the above is a quote from AC29992561 not me, I am not sure why it shows up this way, maybe when I cropped it???) In response to your criticism of this particular thread causing these items to be removed, they were removed from Amazon well prior to this thread, so the process has already been started, independent of this thread. I don't think that this thread will therefore have much impact one way or another, as it will happen anyway, and people still have opportunities from other suppliers and eBay if they chose to act. I wanted to give people a window of opportunity if they choose to use it and a heads up. Last Edited by emerald eye on 01/22/2013 10:48 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 30094264 United States 01/22/2013 11:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 10833631 United States 01/22/2013 11:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, I don't see much info here on Amoxicillin. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32674471 This is a great broad spectrum antibiotic is it not? Yes it is. Amoxicillin could very easily be substituted for Ampicillin, basically they are somewhat similar in spectrum and Amoxicillin may be actually be a bit better orally than Ampicillin which was initially developed to be an IV medication. I tried to use one product from the commonly available categories, so I picked Ampicillin rather arbitrarily, although Amoxicillin could be easily substituted. Amoxicillin is a penicillin class drug with the addition of clavulanate. Either could be useful and are similar in spectrum. I chose Ampicillin in my "list" because of a few older studies that showed it to be more effective in a few things such as Shigella dysenteria, which causes debilitating diarrhea in areas or situations when sanitation is poor, although either Ciprofloxin or Azithromycin would be better choices for Shigella at this point. old example: [link to www.jstor.org] Also on my list I used Erythromycin rather than Azithromycin, and Azthromycin is actually probably the better drug, but it is quite a bit more expensive and generally less available, and I worried that it might me a bit more difficult for the average prepper to find and be able to afford the Azithromycin. So again, the list is not meant to be all inclusive, but merely a general guideline and I also encourage you to do your own research and consider your own specific needs and also remember that this discussion is only intended as entertainment for the fictional scenario in which access to a qualified heath care provider is impossible.. Last Edited by emerald eye on 01/22/2013 11:08 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32674471 United States 01/22/2013 11:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 17626010 United States 01/22/2013 11:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Recently I had an abscessed tooth which needed a root canal or extraction, went to the dentist and he was going to prescribe Amoxycillin. I told him that I had 250 mg. Amoxycillin capsules for pets and asked if it would be okay to use these instead. He said, "yes. They are fine. It is the same drug, but take at least 800 mg. 2x daily," rather than the 500 mg 2x daily dosage that I would normally take for sinuses. In this case, I took 1 extra 250 mg capsule between the two 750 mg dosages. From prior experience of being prescribed Amoxycillin, different dosages are required for different infections. For urinary tract infection, a lesser dose of 250 mg 3x daily for 7 days will work. For bronchitis, 500 mg 3x daily for 10 days. In severe cases of bronchitis, I've had to use 500 mg 4x daily for 10 days. I've noticed that if I do not take enough after the bronchitis gets really bad, the infection will return. Also, I have cats that are big - weigh a lot. One was prescribed a 75 mg dose of Amoxycillin 2x daily for 10 days. Weight does factor in dosages for animals as well as for people. Thanks for the tip about the tractor supply and livestock feed stores. Those are less expensive than purchasing through a vet supply store. |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 10833631 United States 01/22/2013 11:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks for the reply OP, great thread. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32674471 It may very well save lives some day. I hope so. You guys and girls are most welcome. I debated with myself about posting this, and in the end, I am glad that I decided to post it. It was the right decision; the regular people of this world deserve every possible advantage in the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness should any one of multiple fictional scenarios come to pass. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Shelgeyr
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Mister_Worlwide
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emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 39877195 United States 08/28/2013 06:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I usually buy on eBay (for my fish, of course). Just search the antibiotic name, such as amoxicillin, cephalexin, doxycycline, erythromycin, zithromax (or azithromycin), metronidazole, ect... I always look at the seller feedback. A good one that I have had no problems with (and they also do fast shipping) is "aquaticpharmacy" I believe that Amazon has stopped selling most of these. Good luck to you. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |