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Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death

 
Cat Mouth
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06/07/2012 08:13 AM
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Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
what the? I can actually see this happening though..that is sad isn't it?

--------------------------

The severe shortage of viable organs for transplantation in the U.S. has led a transplant surgeon to propose harvesting kidneys from people who are not dead yet.

Dr. Paul Morrissey, an associate professor of surgery at Brown University's Alpert Medical School, wrote in The American Journal of Bioethics that the protocol known as donation after cardiac death -- meaning death as a result of irreversible damage to the cardiovascular system -- has increased the number of organs available for transplant, but has a number of limitations, including the need to wait until the heart stops.

Because of the waiting time, Morrissey said that about one-third of potential donors end up not being able to donate, and many organs turn out to not be viable as a result.

Instead, he argues in favor of procuring kidneys from patients with severe irreversible brain injury whose families consent to kidney removal before their cardiac and respiratory systems stop functioning.

"These individuals, maintained on mechanical ventilation, do not meet the criteria for brain death," he wrote. In these cases, the patient would be removed from life support and kidneys would be harvested while ensuring that the patient receives anesthesia and pain relief during the operation. After that, the patients would be kept comfortable until they have not had a pulse for five minutes, a threshold at which they are declared dead.

"Under this protocol, the donor is alive at the time of kidney recovery, but a determination has been made and confirmed by medical experts that death is imminent," he wrote.

Kidney removal, he stressed, would not cause the death of the donor, which is "instead caused foremost by the original catastrophic injury and secondarily by terminating mechanical ventilation."

In addition to providing more organs usable for transplant, Morrissey said this revised protocol would allow families to grieve in peace, since surgeons wouldn't need to rush the body into the operating room to remove organs. He said they could also take comfort in the knowledge that their loved one's death saved other lives.

[link to gma.yahoo.com]
:mesig432:
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 08:50 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
As a person with congestive heart failure, and a brother that is in kidney failure due to diabetes, and on dialysis for 7 years, with a wife and 3 kids, I would not have a problem with this. I cannot donate to him now because of my condition, but if I should go into complete heart failure without the possibility of recovering, by all means I want everything that can be used of my body to help others. If that means harvesting before I am clinically dead, so be it, if it means that they have a better chance of being used. Were I am going, I won't need them. Everyone should be a donor. I believe that if God did not want organ donation, he would have never allowed the knowledge to be given to doctors to do it. All things are through God's design.hf
INK
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06/07/2012 08:56 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
As a person with congestive heart failure, and a brother that is in kidney failure due to diabetes, and on dialysis for 7 years, with a wife and 3 kids, I would not have a problem with this. I cannot donate to him now because of my condition, but if I should go into complete heart failure without the possibility of recovering, by all means I want everything that can be used of my body to help others. If that means harvesting before I am clinically dead, so be it, if it means that they have a better chance of being used. Were I am going, I won't need them. Everyone should be a donor. I believe that if God did not want organ donation, he would have never allowed the knowledge to be given to doctors to do it. All things are through God's design.hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3648215


I have to agree. Another thing many people may not know is this: after death, a patient with a pacemaker still has some electrical activity going on (not quite a heartbeat, but not cardiac death either), and someone from the pacemaker company actually has to come and "turn the device off". Until that happens the patient is not clinically dead, but they really are dead, and at that point their organs could be harvested if not for the residual electrical activity.
AmericanJedi

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06/07/2012 08:58 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
OP, they aren't talking about taking you down on the hoof with a net and hacking out your kidneys like Chinese organ thieves. They are talking about harvesting organs from people that are essentially already dead.

I have one son. If he were 'brain dead' and had no viable hope of awakening. And was on a ventilator and would die if he was removed. I would gladly let them take his organs.

I wouldn't let my child live in a veggitative state developing bed sores and rotting just to satisfy mine own morbid emotional bonds.

Americans need to wake up! A person in a veggitative state is neither alive or dead! They aren't in a coma. They have some sort of injury that has ended all higher brain function (note: watching the Kardashians is also a cause.)and are not ever going to wake up.

Yes, people do wake up from comas, but a veggitative state is just that! Higher brain function is fuck all and they are just a brain stem.

Who really wants to live like that?




Other than the idiots on the Jersey Shore.
(GLP aka American Jedi)

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Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:21 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
disgusting

Things like this always lead to further exploitation

WHAT is next?

the vampires can always find a way to justify
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:21 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
First, the requirements in use were there for a reason: a person can come back even when doctors thought the damage was "irreversible". It's impossible to fully assess beforehand.

Second, relaxing the requirements opens the door to abuse (meaning murder in this case), as organ transplant is a multimillion dollar business.

In the end those with the money will get the "right" to cannibalize the rest.
-GooGooFlexy-

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06/07/2012 09:25 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
This is a tough one.

I think I'll go ahead and just stay out of it.
-GooGooFlexy-
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06/07/2012 09:29 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
No donations for me thanks. When it's my time I'll go
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:30 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
Jewish surgeon...typical
iamlizzyb

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06/07/2012 09:31 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
I am sorry..

I have heard too many stories about Dr's who claim a patient is dead/brain dead, and then the victims make a full or partial recovery.

The most recent was a boy who was declared brain dead, and his family was convinced to sign the papers.. luckily before they signed he showed signs of recovery. If his family had not hesitated like they did, they would have killed their son. That dead boy is expected to make a full recovery.

I will keep my organs until I am fully dead, thank you.

This is just another way to push the euthanasia agenda..
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:33 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
This is a tough one.

I think I'll go ahead and just stay out of it.
 Quoting: -GooGooFlexy-


Good call. Count me in too or should I say out?hf
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:34 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
Poor people are just organ farms.
ceawaves

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06/07/2012 09:34 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
Goes on everyday..
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:34 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
First, the requirements in use were there for a reason: a person can come back even when doctors thought the damage was "irreversible". It's impossible to fully assess beforehand.

Second, relaxing the requirements opens the door to abuse (meaning murder in this case), as organ transplant is a multimillion dollar business.

In the end those with the money will get the "right" to cannibalize the rest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1297793


Yes



for shame

Many medical cases are reversible and it is a sick person's RIGHT to not be killed before it is their time

this is basically what is happening here

disgusting
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:36 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
I think this has been happening for awhile and they remove the organs without putting the person to sleep too. Did you know that?
Cat Mouth  (OP)

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06/07/2012 09:40 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
OP, they aren't talking about taking you down on the hoof with a net and hacking out your kidneys like Chinese organ thieves. They are talking about harvesting organs from people that are essentially already dead.

I have one son. If he were 'brain dead' and had no viable hope of awakening. And was on a ventilator and would die if he was removed. I would gladly let them take his organs.

I wouldn't let my child live in a veggitative state developing bed sores and rotting just to satisfy mine own morbid emotional bonds.

Americans need to wake up! A person in a veggitative state is neither alive or dead! They aren't in a coma. They have some sort of injury that has ended all higher brain function (note: watching the Kardashians is also a cause.)and are not ever going to wake up.

Yes, people do wake up from comas, but a veggitative state is just that! Higher brain function is fuck all and they are just a brain stem.

Who really wants to live like that?




Other than the idiots on the Jersey Shore.
 Quoting: AmericanJedi


Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death

I know what the article states bro.. and i have a problem with it, totally. I dont think its right they are proposing to harvest organs from a living breathing person, that is what the article is stating. I have a big problem with this because its another one of those subtle steps that will lead to more obnoxious methods that leads to more and more bizarre practices.

Remember abortion was shunned upon at one time and looked at as "bizarre"..now its no big deal to have it done.

Last Edited by Cat Mouth on 06/07/2012 09:46 AM
:mesig432:
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:40 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
I think this has been happening for awhile and they remove the organs without putting the person to sleep too. Did you know that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7390076





Hospitals and nursing homes are warehouses for experimentation

Our society is sooooo duped and dumb it has no idea what really goes on
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:43 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
OP, they aren't talking about taking you down on the hoof with a net and hacking out your kidneys like Chinese organ thieves. They are talking about harvesting organs from people that are essentially already dead.

I have one son. If he were 'brain dead' and had no viable hope of awakening. And was on a ventilator and would die if he was removed. I would gladly let them take his organs.

I wouldn't let my child live in a veggitative state developing bed sores and rotting just to satisfy mine own morbid emotional bonds.

Americans need to wake up! A person in a veggitative state is neither alive or dead! They aren't in a coma. They have some sort of injury that has ended all higher brain function (note: watching the Kardashians is also a cause.)and are not ever going to wake up.

Yes, people do wake up from comas, but a veggitative state is just that! Higher brain function is fuck all and they are just a brain stem.

Who really wants to live like that?




Other than the idiots on the Jersey Shore.
 Quoting: AmericanJedi


I know that "the bold text above" ..i have a problem with that because i believe in miracles and seen them happen. Yes i really think its not right to take organs out of a living breathing person..thats just how i feel bro.
 Quoting: Cat Mouth


Of course it isn't right

This is the end times and you will see more and more laxity with
the care for humans and human life


Those who can't see how wrong this is... have some spiritual deficits

Get right with God
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:45 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
Being rare blood type ...It is specificaly stated in my will ... I get "used" only by surviving siblings....after im pronounced dead by 3 independent doctors.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:49 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
Too much room for abuse. It's one thing to wake up in a bathtub full of ice with a kidney gone because you got drunk at the wrong party, but quite another to wake up after being declared 'clinically dead' and have some asshole doc saying "Ooh, my bad. I thought you were done with those. Hell, I can't take 'em back now..."
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 09:50 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
As a person with congestive heart failure, and a brother that is in kidney failure due to diabetes, and on dialysis for 7 years, with a wife and 3 kids, I would not have a problem with this. I cannot donate to him now because of my condition, but if I should go into complete heart failure without the possibility of recovering, by all means I want everything that can be used of my body to help others. If that means harvesting before I am clinically dead, so be it, if it means that they have a better chance of being used. Were I am going, I won't need them. Everyone should be a donor. I believe that if God did not want organ donation, he would have never allowed the knowledge to be given to doctors to do it. All things are through God's design.hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3648215


You wouldn't say this if you had gone through a medical residency. I saw families talked into "pulling the plug" and donating organs of relatives that had been on a ventilator and in a coma for less than 2 weeks. I'd like to think my relatives would wait at least a month before considering the same for me.
I've seen other cases where the patient was "hurried" out of this world in order to start the organ harvesting. Nothing definitive that could be proven in court but just enough lack in treatment to allow the "decay" of a patient in a coma.
I've also seen people who were former drug addicts coming back for kidney number 3 because they "clean-up" just long enough to meet the criteria for getting a transplant and then go back to their old lifestyle.
I've also seen people, with a chronic disease, that worsen their conditions by not following simple requirements. Things like exercise and following dietary constraints often slow the progress of an illness but a lot of people want to instead rely on pills.

Donation of organs should remain voluntary. I believe the pay-it-forward method of kidney donations is a very good method at least for kidneys.
Fred
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06/07/2012 09:53 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
This would need to go hand in hand with stricter criteria for brain death.
More than just a doctors best guess. An MRI and radiological examination to see the physical state of the brain. I've seen the results of a brain death scan. Pretty scary. But if my brain looks like that, take my kidneys. But don't rush through a few reflex tests and do it. A person with a severe migraine would even fail some of these tests.
tiger1

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06/07/2012 09:53 AM

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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
The slippery slope continues. First they put people on the chopping block who they consider unrecoverable. Then, those who are deemed expendable.
Praise God from Whom all Blessings flow !!!
stormer

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06/07/2012 09:53 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
First, the requirements in use were there for a reason: a person can come back even when doctors thought the damage was "irreversible". It's impossible to fully assess beforehand.

Second, relaxing the requirements opens the door to abuse (meaning murder in this case), as organ transplant is a multimillion dollar business.

In the end those with the money will get the "right" to cannibalize the rest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1297793


This ^^^^^^

The elites will be kept alive at the expense of the poorest.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery - Bob Marley
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 10:04 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
"Clinicaly dead"
from perspective of sell out : doctor/hospital/ patient with money
Or from perspective of INDIVIDUAL on "life support "...With possibly forced coma and BEATING heart.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 10:06 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
First, the requirements in use were there for a reason: a person can come back even when doctors thought the damage was "irreversible". It's impossible to fully assess beforehand.

Second, relaxing the requirements opens the door to abuse (meaning murder in this case), as organ transplant is a multimillion dollar business.

In the end those with the money will get the "right" to cannibalize the rest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1297793


This ^^^^^^

The elites will be kept alive at the expense of the poorest.
 Quoting: stormer


Yep...watch: Get the gringo.

Boy was clinicaly dead the moment he found to be compatable.
BRIEF

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06/07/2012 10:06 AM

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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
You want the organs as fresh as possible, and the donor is done...take 'em and save a life...
I never forgive and I never forget

I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.

Briefcut4892
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 10:17 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
As a person with congestive heart failure, and a brother that is in kidney failure due to diabetes, and on dialysis for 7 years, with a wife and 3 kids, I would not have a problem with this. I cannot donate to him now because of my condition, but if I should go into complete heart failure without the possibility of recovering, by all means I want everything that can be used of my body to help others. If that means harvesting before I am clinically dead, so be it, if it means that they have a better chance of being used. Were I am going, I won't need them. Everyone should be a donor. I believe that if God did not want organ donation, he would have never allowed the knowledge to be given to doctors to do it. All things are through God's design.hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3648215


So all those killers and rapists are also through God's design?
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

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06/07/2012 10:20 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
Being rare blood type ...It is specificaly stated in my will ... I get "used" only by surviving siblings....after im pronounced dead by 3 independent doctors.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17541609

clappa
Being rare blood type.
Handle
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2012 10:33 AM
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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
You want the organs as fresh as possible, and the donor is done...take 'em and save a life...
 Quoting: BRIEF


That's the point, they want organs from donors that are not "done", tard!
samanthasunflower

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06/07/2012 10:39 AM

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Re: Surgeon: Remove Kidneys for Transplant Before Donor's Death
THEY ARE ALREADY DOING THIS!!! The Japanese wait until the heart stops beating before taking kidneys, but everyone else bases it on 'brain death.'

The problem is that people can recover from being brain dead. They test by going into the room in the dark, make as little noise as possible, and quickly flip the switch to the machine on then off. Then they pump the body full of a paralytic, so that he could feel everything, but not be able to move or scream. Then the surgeons, over a multi hour operation, slowly cut out all the organs.

This is why I'm not an organ donor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





GLP