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Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 05:27 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I was raised by a father who beat the lights out of me on a regular basis.

When I had my own children, I never touched them in a harmful way. Not even a slap or a pinch.

Chain of violence to children: broken.
theSearchingJones

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01/29/2012 05:38 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Raised: Roman Catholic;
at 12 years old: established my relationship with Our Creator;

All our Truths exist within Us > We must use Our Wisdom to realize that(~)...

Now >>> Please read my signature(~).

Last Edited by theSearchingJones on 01/29/2012 05:49 PM
We get the powers over us that we've earned collectively. Humanity, as a whole, is self-interested, shallow, ignorant, violent and immoral; small wonder, therefore, that our leaders (secret or otherwise) reflect that. You want better leaders, become better people.

I forgive myself, I Love myself, I'm sorry, Please forgive me, I forgive you, I love you, Thank you.

God Bless You;
I Bless You;
Bless Yourself(~).

Love is the answer ~ Peace be with You.
Don Q

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01/29/2012 05:49 PM
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Great thread.. I read every word of it and every reply.
So nice to hear from someone who has transcended our sad human condition.
I'm over 60 and I am still walking the path away from a toxic past.
You can read about it here if you want to.
[link to rigorousintuition.ca]

BTW I am a paid member now... about time I paid something for all the good I have enjoyed in this place.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 06:05 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
5 stars for a great topic of interest opie.

Not all can relate, "yet", of this topic, its a slowly aquired taste and a deep deep rabit hole that has risks of no return. A personal and sometimes painfull journey followed by the realiseation one is TRULY all alone in this world.

Myself, having spent years of reading and practicing self help works a friend suggested I might benefit from the works of "John Bradshaw" and his work on repairing/loving the "inner child".

The same friend paid for my admition into his group therepy/semminar in Monterey Ca.

I just can`t recomend his work enought to people who trully want to erease the brainwashing from birth and seriously take responsiblity for their own lifes and create success and happiness.

After the John Bradshaw work, Anthony Robbins ' Awaken The Giant Within" was my next focus which is a whole different successfull story.

My point is, I was at a mental roadblock and couldn`t progress any further in personal developement no matter how much I learned, untill I went back to the root behaviour problems which weren`t even mine to begin with lol.

Have a happy journey everyone :)
Pharista  (OP)

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01/29/2012 06:11 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
thanks for all the very honest responses. it is bedtime across my side of the world so I am off to get some sleep. I look forward to responding to posts tomorrow :)
100 personality disordered behaviours [link to www.outofthefog.net]
Taking back self control from disordered energy thieves [link to www.outofthefog.net]
How to spot a psychopath [link to aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org]

A brief introduction to 'The Shadow' [link to home.earthlink.net]
Hunting for Power, Toltec Wisdom for Spiritual Warriors [link to 209.85.122.83]
Message from the Kogi [link to www.alunathemovie.com]

Thread: Spiritual Preparedness - simple practices and meditations to increase self-awareness

Thread: The Wetiko Disease - a psychological parasite

Thread: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems

Support for parents of bullied children - [link to epicinschools.spam]

~ "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing obsolete." ~ Buckminster Fuller
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 06:12 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Here`s the link to John Bradshaws website for those interested.

[link to www.johnbradshaw.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 06:18 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
The problem ,as always, arises in complex social functions and the need to moderate information flow and the question of who chooses and the reasoning of why and how.

There is also the acceptance of fundamentals we ourselves construe as flawed which sets up bias and correction functions which are important as the social dogma they elicit.

A system must arise with correct, unbiased understanding of these functions and implement self correcting checks and balances or we will always fall to the mores of peer correction or local cultural bias.

An emotion or emotive association cannot assume undue weight as there must be an open system which accounts for discrepancies in concepts trans-culturally.

Open organic dialogue and intra-personal assessment are likely the first, best steps dependent on the character of the goal.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 06:45 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Great thread... a breath of fresh air!

Chain breakers indeed!

yoda
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 06:55 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
bump
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 07:36 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Woah, just had an image of the Internet growing exponentially combined with everyone's same Love/Feelings/Emotions as a type of jumpstart or switch that perhaps Internet is the Synchronicity we NEED? To allow us to concentrate good/positive energy/vibes/love/peace into the atmosphere where I picture it as getting someone on there feet or saving a life half way across the world. To try to send out energy/love/music could be enough to help others get informed and on a path that is overall better for them and the earth/universe/mind/health of everything including animals wether land or sea, high or low, far or wide.


Can picture seeing a domino effect with people awakening so to speak and finding out the truth. In there hearts they know what is right.


wave
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 07:41 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
One of these will help break the chains bonghit
MutantMessiah

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01/29/2012 07:48 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Regardless of which geographical location we find ourselves on this planet, what family structures, economic circumstances, cultural or socio-political situations, religion or creed we were born into and what losses and traumas we have survived; anyone who is part of modern society has at one point or another been hurt and affected by toxic learned behaviours and false belief systems from each of these external factors.

If freedom from the traumas and global dysfunctions of our pasts and a more authentic existence is NOW what we seek. If our hopes are for changes (for the better) in the way our current world systems operate, then there comes a point, after considerable self-reflection, where realisation cuts through personal denial systems and we 'wake up' to personal responsibility and the potential for personal and collective change.

From that place of growing awareness, a desire to clear the false beliefs and cross-generational dysfunction and wounds in our own personal psyches and every day lives becomes strong enough in an individual to take action to clear and transform them. When enough individuals take personal action for positive change, then the reflection of that will manifest externally on the world stage, a bit like the 100th monkey tale.

To sum up: We are waking up (with the help of very tough internal and external circumstances) to the reality that the cross-generational dysfunctions and lies of all that has taken place before this point in time, now sits both individually and collectively on all of our shoulders. We may not have been the cause of the problems but we are responsible to heal the effects and move forward with healthier behaviours.

From this awareness, comes the realisation that we do hold the power to break the chains of the past and to prevent those dysfunctions and false belief systems continuing on in our youth and in our societies. The method to do this is to look at our pasts, the pasts of our families and cultures and see them for what they really are. To then find ways to grieve and heal the wounds we carry, to accept and to forgive and then move forward authentically. This is a very personal journey, no one can do it for anyone else - we can support each other along the way but ultimately these are steps that each on of us must make for ourselves.

This thread is dedicated to chain-breakers everywhere and it's purpose is to share experiences, tips, insights and pitfalls that we encounter as we strive to keep moving forward towards truth and a better way of being and living in these challenging times.

 Quoting: Pharista


Well said.5a
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I think we need to examine all our beliefs. Really examine them - and then determine which ones actually serve us well."

 Quoting: ayt 2857182


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 07:57 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I think we need to examine all our beliefs. Really examine them - and then determine which ones actually serve us well."

 Quoting: ayt 2857182


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9833377


What is the truth? as definition?
MutantMessiah

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01/29/2012 07:57 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I am not a professional therapist or counsellor but I have been on a dedicated path of self-recovery since I was 7 years old when I was first impacted by a huge loss in my life (I am now in my 40's).

In posts to follow, I will share an introduction of the traumas and toxicity I have faced on a personal level and some of the steps I have taken that have helped me to heal my psyche to this point in my personal journey. I will also share benefits that have manifested around me as a result of my efforts. I would also like to share useful learned skills in setting limits and boundaries I have found helpful when dealing with people in my life who are still deeply asleep and continuing their toxic dance steps.

I look forward to sharing experiences and learning alongside fellow chain breakers as we continue on our personal/collective paths towards a wholeness of being/global community.

Recommended reading material:-

'The Four Agreements' by Don Miguel Ruiz.

'The Drama of the Gifted Child' by Alice Miller
 Quoting: Pharista


Thank you.
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
ayt
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01/29/2012 08:07 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I think we need to examine all our beliefs. Really examine them - and then determine which ones actually serve us well."

 Quoting: ayt 2857182


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9833377


What is the truth? as definition?
 Quoting: Dionysian Fullaflatus


heh - that is why I specifically didn't use the word truth. We can choose the beliefs we want to be "our truths", but certainly cannot claim them as THE truth. After all - they are but beliefs.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 08:11 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
If the bible was written to control people...and god and devil is all a big joke... what is with the devil worshipping and shit in goverment and w.e ?
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 08:12 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Well thought out material you have here. Indeed, the roots of all change lie in our children, and how we rear them into young adults.

That is key.
 Quoting: ToadMaster


How about starting with YOURSELF?
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 08:13 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I think we need to examine all our beliefs. Really examine them - and then determine which ones actually serve us well."

 Quoting: ayt 2857182


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9833377


If its truth is KNOWING, belief hasn't anything to do with it. The word "belief" has become very toxic in religion and politics in fact.
MutantMessiah

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01/29/2012 08:17 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I think we need to examine all our beliefs. Really examine them - and then determine which ones actually serve us well."

 Quoting: ayt 2857182


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9833377


You cannot determine truth in the beliefs of others until they're the beliefs you hold yourself. Each perspective is slightly different and some VERY different. The key is not forcing any belief on anyone else. Speak of the benefits of our understanding to inspire a change in others, not against their beliefs. To accuse anyone of being wrong in their beliefs is to condemn them like a fire and brimstone preacher... as it seems I am doing, in a way, right now.... lol
Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 08:17 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Excellent --- truly an A++ thread. Here are a few ideas based upon my experiences and those of friends. It may seem a bit unusual, but i hope it helps. It is very valuable to understand the psychological bases for our dysfunctions. However, it is very possible that to "cure" them requires working from a higher level vibrationally and consciousness wise than is available to most in the absence of "doing the work" to first raise their vibration/consciousness.

In other words, for example, once you realize that you are a narcissist sociopath certain ego propensities must be overcome in order to effectively rise above that disorder. Otherwise, your good intentions could well be blocked by "the usual" unhelpful personality mechanism already in place.

Thus, how to raise one's frequency so as to best deal with the negative ego/selfishness/fear, etc. that led to dysfunctional activities/behaviors in the first place? Traditionally, the old methods work well -- proper nutrition, regular exercise, and *very diligent* "energy work -- meditation, chi kung, Reiki, yoga, etc.

One can not realize what it feels like in your very being once you have gained some success in raising your vibe through the efforts mentioned. A high personal vibe = quiet mind, relaxed body, open heart, increased energy, increased intuition, latent talents developing for starters. But you must actually feel these benefits in order to understand how huge this way of being is. Only experiencing them will indicate to you how very well worth it is is/was to have made the effort to get there.

Everything in the Universe is energy/vibration. High vibes heal, low vibes lead to unfortunate circumstances and ill health. There is a measure/scale called, i believe, The Hawkins Scale. It indicates on a range of 0 to 1000Hz, that most humans are at 207Hz. Not ideal. It is said that at 500Hz you have become quite open hearted and "evolved". 1000Hz and you are a true Master in every sense of the word.

Once you get started in this developmental program, you won't even consider stopping --- that's how wonderful you feel.

As an editorial comment -- TPTB are in the 200 Hz range, and that's why we are where we are today. Let's raise our frequencies and thus improve our lives and the future of our planet !!!
Golden Mean

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01/29/2012 08:25 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Well thought out material you have here. Indeed, the roots of all change lie in our children, and how we rear them into young adults.

That is key.
 Quoting: ToadMaster


Sorry, I disagree. The root of all change lies within us all and what we choose. We teach our children by our example in our choices. Parents who say one thing and do another perpetuate a state of mistrust and separation between them and their children. The root of all change lies within us. Our children are the plants of our choices and their fruit is a result of their choices.

You cannot give what you do not own.

Love the whole idea in this thread though!

Peace. hf
~ Giving with expectation is not giving; it is bartering.
Plasmare

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01/29/2012 08:28 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
This thread is dedicated to chain-breakers everywhere and it's purpose is to share experiences, tips, insights and pitfalls that we encounter as we strive to keep moving forward towards truth and a better way of being and living in these challenging times.

 Quoting: Pharista


Don't believe anything or anyone... Only learn and know and understand. And most people refuse to admit they're wrong, even to themselves, so they live a lie and lie to live. Can't really learn if you're never wrong. Treat people like you want to be treated, if you don't want to be lied to, don't lie to anyone else. Be prepared to lose "friends".
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 08:33 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I think we need to examine all our beliefs. Really examine them - and then determine which ones actually serve us well."

 Quoting: ayt 2857182


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9833377


What is the truth? as definition?
 Quoting: Dionysian Fullaflatus


heh - that is why I specifically didn't use the word truth. We can choose the beliefs we want to be "our truths", but certainly cannot claim them as THE truth. After all - they are but beliefs.
 Quoting: ayt 2857182


That is tru.....;) , why consensus is necessary as there are indeed constructs which are almost universal in nature; self interest and fulfillment being amongst the constants. The next step is to infer those constants in a framework.

Ultimately the constitution and bill of rights stand out as two of the most egalitarian documents to infer freedom and pursuit of said freedom into word.
Plasmare

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01/29/2012 08:33 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I think we need to examine all our beliefs. Really examine them - and then determine which ones actually serve us well."

 Quoting: ayt 2857182


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9833377


You cannot determine truth in the beliefs of others until they're the beliefs you hold yourself. Each perspective is slightly different and some VERY different. The key is not forcing any belief on anyone else. Speak of the benefits of our understanding to inspire a change in others, not against their beliefs. To accuse anyone of being wrong in their beliefs is to condemn them like a fire and brimstone preacher... as it seems I am doing, in a way, right now.... lol
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


You people don't understand what a belief is if you say that. You don't need to believe in something that exists. A belief is something you accept by placing your trust in that belief or person who tells you about the belief. A belief stops being a belief if there's evidence for it existing in reality, it then becomes a fact. As long as you believe, you'll never know and always have doubt and never be able to truly learn anything that doesn't fit in with your belief.

I'm not just talking about religion. So technically everyone that has a belief is wrong because they're not proven or don't exist in reality. You don't need to believe if you know and understand.

BELIEF
1. a principle, proposition, idea, etc, accepted as true
2. opinion; conviction
3. religious faith
4. trust or confidence, as in a person or a person's abilities, probity, etc

A belief is simply something you accept as being true without any evidence or proof that it even exists or it is the way it claims to be. It is not truth, it is something you ACCEPT and CHOOSE to be true. But truth does not need your acceptance or choice to exist, it exists regardless of what you think.

Last Edited by Plasmare on 01/29/2012 08:35 PM
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 08:37 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
This thread is dedicated to chain-breakers everywhere and it's purpose is to share experiences, tips, insights and pitfalls that we encounter as we strive to keep moving forward towards truth and a better way of being and living in these challenging times.

 Quoting: Pharista


Don't believe anything or anyone... Only learn and know and understand. And most people refuse to admit they're wrong, even to themselves, so they live a lie and lie to live. Can't really learn if you're never wrong. Treat people like you want to be treated, if you don't want to be lied to, don't lie to anyone else. Be prepared to lose "friends".
 Quoting: Plasmare


That is why universal application of logic and common law is important in a formal mediational sense.

No one that does not engage themselves and the system regularly will likely ever find anything fair.

It is essentially the cornerstone of freedom that most overlook and negate. Constant vigilance and the need for discerning checks and balances; on both a personal and social level.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 08:40 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
I think we need to examine all our beliefs. Really examine them - and then determine which ones actually serve us well."

 Quoting: ayt 2857182


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9833377


You cannot determine truth in the beliefs of others until they're the beliefs you hold yourself. Each perspective is slightly different and some VERY different. The key is not forcing any belief on anyone else. Speak of the benefits of our understanding to inspire a change in others, not against their beliefs. To accuse anyone of being wrong in their beliefs is to condemn them like a fire and brimstone preacher... as it seems I am doing, in a way, right now.... lol
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


You people don't understand what a belief is if you say that. You don't need to believe in something that exists. A belief is something you accept by placing your trust in that belief or person who tells you about the belief. A belief stops being a belief if there's evidence for it existing in reality, it then becomes a fact. As long as you believe, you'll never know and always have doubt and never be able to truly learn anything that doesn't fit in with your belief.

I'm not just talking about religion. So technically everyone that has a belief is wrong because they're not proven or don't exist in reality. You don't need to believe if you know and understand.

BELIEF
1. a principle, proposition, idea, etc, accepted as true
2. opinion; conviction
3. religious faith
4. trust or confidence, as in a person or a person's abilities, probity, etc

A belief is simply something you accept as being true without any evidence or proof that it even exists or it is the way it claims to be. It is not truth, it is something you ACCEPT and CHOOSE to be true. But truth does not need your acceptance or choice to exist, it exists regardless of what you think.
 Quoting: Plasmare


But is truth: fact and is it reproducible or given to perception? Belief is solely that which you deem to be true to the extent that you find the proofs acceptable.
Plasmare

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01/29/2012 08:41 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
Just wanted to mention that ALL beliefs are false. If they were truths it would be knowledge. Beliefs are something people wish the truth was but no matter how much people wish, it will never be true. Eventually people go insane from lying to themselves and others so much in order to protect their beliefs. Then become self destructive and poison those around them. Beliefs imprison people and the truth sets you free. No one forces anyone to believe anything, people believe of their own free will and therefore must choose to stop believing in lies. Can't spell belief without lie.
Plasmare

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01/29/2012 08:47 PM
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Re: Breaking the chains of the past - facing & healing toxic conditioning & false belief systems
...


IMO the FIRST thing to do is determine if our belief is TRUE. The truth can destroy your neat little world in the SHORT run but only the truth deserves your belief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9833377


You cannot determine truth in the beliefs of others until they're the beliefs you hold yourself. Each perspective is slightly different and some VERY different. The key is not forcing any belief on anyone else. Speak of the benefits of our understanding to inspire a change in others, not against their beliefs. To accuse anyone of being wrong in their beliefs is to condemn them like a fire and brimstone preacher... as it seems I am doing, in a way, right now.... lol
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


You people don't understand what a belief is if you say that. You don't need to believe in something that exists. A belief is something you accept by placing your trust in that belief or person who tells you about the belief. A belief stops being a belief if there's evidence for it existing in reality, it then becomes a fact. As long as you believe, you'll never know and always have doubt and never be able to truly learn anything that doesn't fit in with your belief.

I'm not just talking about religion. So technically everyone that has a belief is wrong because they're not proven or don't exist in reality. You don't need to believe if you know and understand.

BELIEF
1. a principle, proposition, idea, etc, accepted as true
2. opinion; conviction
3. religious faith
4. trust or confidence, as in a person or a person's abilities, probity, etc

A belief is simply something you accept as being true without any evidence or proof that it even exists or it is the way it claims to be. It is not truth, it is something you ACCEPT and CHOOSE to be true. But truth does not need your acceptance or choice to exist, it exists regardless of what you think.
 Quoting: Plasmare


But is truth: fact and is it reproducible or given to perception? Belief is solely that which you deem to be true to the extent that you find the proofs acceptable.
 Quoting: Dionysian Fullaflatus


I see truth as a reflection of reality. If it's doesn't match up with reality, then it isn't true. The only way to see reality objectively is to see it as it is, with no preconceptions, no beliefs and no bias. Most people can't do this because they can't handle reality and live in fantasy. I define reality as all that exists in the universe. Until we observe something or interact with something that exists, it may as well not exist to us. It just remains a possibility.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2012 08:52 PM
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...


You cannot determine truth in the beliefs of others until they're the beliefs you hold yourself. Each perspective is slightly different and some VERY different. The key is not forcing any belief on anyone else. Speak of the benefits of our understanding to inspire a change in others, not against their beliefs. To accuse anyone of being wrong in their beliefs is to condemn them like a fire and brimstone preacher... as it seems I am doing, in a way, right now.... lol
 Quoting: MutantMessiah


You people don't understand what a belief is if you say that. You don't need to believe in something that exists. A belief is something you accept by placing your trust in that belief or person who tells you about the belief. A belief stops being a belief if there's evidence for it existing in reality, it then becomes a fact. As long as you believe, you'll never know and always have doubt and never be able to truly learn anything that doesn't fit in with your belief.

I'm not just talking about religion. So technically everyone that has a belief is wrong because they're not proven or don't exist in reality. You don't need to believe if you know and understand.

BELIEF
1. a principle, proposition, idea, etc, accepted as true
2. opinion; conviction
3. religious faith
4. trust or confidence, as in a person or a person's abilities, probity, etc

A belief is simply something you accept as being true without any evidence or proof that it even exists or it is the way it claims to be. It is not truth, it is something you ACCEPT and CHOOSE to be true. But truth does not need your acceptance or choice to exist, it exists regardless of what you think.
 Quoting: Plasmare


But is truth: fact and is it reproducible or given to perception? Belief is solely that which you deem to be true to the extent that you find the proofs acceptable.
 Quoting: Dionysian Fullaflatus


I see truth as a reflection of reality. If it's doesn't match up with reality, then it isn't true. The only way to see reality objectively is to see it as it is, with no preconceptions, no beliefs and no bias. Most people can't do this because they can't handle reality and live in fantasy. I define reality as all that exists in the universe. Until we observe something or interact with something that exists, it may as well not exist to us. It just remains a possibility.
 Quoting: Plasmare


So what you are saying is that it would be reflective of trans cultural values and reflect commonalities both philosophically (logically) and empirically; And, if that is what you are indeed saying; I am in complete agreement.





GLP