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Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards

 
TardisBlue

User ID: 1527687
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10/24/2011 05:47 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Hi, i've only read half of the first page, but here are my thoughts on the original post. If i'm way behind i apologise, i only had time to read this today. You did a great job emerald eye.

My original thought was whether Lake Yellowstone could have played a part in the attenuation of seismic waves from Kermadec. What do you think? Although, it is only 118m deep at most, and has an average depth of only 42m. This idea and the images below don't account for the angle of entry or any possible refraction of the seismic waves. It's an unlikely theory in my own mind. I just thought i would throw it out there. I also wondered if the elevation of the monitor could be a consideration. It's co-ordinates suggest it is very close to the peak, meaning waves from certain directions may need to be refracted, and weakened, in order to even reach the monitor? Here are some images showing the direction of the epicenter at Kermadec.

[link to i51.tinypic.com]
[link to i51.tinypic.com]

Here is another image, showing the direction of the epicenter at Kermadec overlayed onto Figure 1a from a research paper you linked. It shows the path is in a direct line with an earthquake swarm from 2008.

[link to i54.tinypic.com]

I'm going to try and read the remaining pages of this thread.

Even if this wasn't helpful, i learned a great deal about Yellowstone!
Thanks for your time.
Isaiah 55:8 'For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.'
TardisBlue

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10/24/2011 06:26 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
I just want to add that from the info you've provided, i think you've likely uncovered evidence of volcanic activity under Yellowstone. It seems there are regular cycles of rising and falling land, along with earthquake swarms. My own guess is that these types of activity/adjustments have been going on since the supervolcanic eruption 750,000 years ago. Personally i'd not consider it an immediate concern. I hope i'm not just being insensitive to the danger because it's not local. I reckon the lithosphere could still be thin there, with potential for smaller than supervolcanic eruptions. Definately still fascinating and one to keep an eye on.

Without access to the machines and information on how they are operating it's always going to be difficult for us amateurs to truly confirm our ideas. But we shouldn't let that discourage us.
blobr

Have they any real-time information on land deformation up there?

Thanks again "TIA" for all your efforts and please keep us updated. Sadly, there are probably scientists being payed handsomely for doing far less active and current research. I'll be following this thread.
Isaiah 55:8 'For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.'
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/24/2011 08:45 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Hi Tardis Blue,

Thanks for you input and observationssmile_kiss

I think you have some ideas worthy of consideration, one of which I think that I can address rather quickly.

As I continue to read about this and find information, it seems that it may be gas bubbles in the magma which actually dampen seismic wave propagation. If you think about it, that makes sense, as liquids like water transmit waveforms much more readily and clearly than gas.

Years ago, I lived in St. Louis, and we had a backyard pool. We had a smallish earthquake, and one of my vivid memories is seeing the ripples in that pool generated by the earthquake.

Again from the PDF file:

"Attenuation in gas-charged magma"

"Magma is highly viscous and above the nucleation depth contains gas in the form of bubbles. Chouet(1996a) suggests that such a gas-charged magma is highly attenuative, very quickly damping any seismic waves propagating within it."

ftp://geos.gsi.gov.il/pub/Vladi/papers/Collier_et_al.pdf


If this is the case near the YPC sensor, it suggests to me anyway, that the magma near there may have more gas bubbles in it. hiding

I really respect Dr. Chouet, as he was the father pretty much of seismic wave form analysis and volcanic long term events.

[link to www.esi-topics.com]

[link to volcanogeek.wordpress.com]

Anyway, The reason that I don't really think that the surface water around the lake dampened the seismic waveforms is because the LKWY sensor which is nearer to the lake, (which sometimes doesn't seem to function all that well), picked up the October 23 earthquake well (at around 4:00 MST, local time)

[link to isthisthingon.org]

In contrast, the YPC didn't really pick up the October 23rd earthquake, although it did seem strangely active later in the day.

[link to isthisthingon.org]

On this map, you can see that the LKWY sensor is closer to the lake than the YPC (or the YMP which also remains strangely quiet.)


[link to www.seis.utah.edu]

I am not sure about the altitude theory, but the YPK sensor seems to pick up the distant big earthquakes well and I think it is at a higher elevation than the YPC but I need to
check for certain. The YNE is also pretty high in elevation and picked up the October 23rd event well also.

The YNE October 23:

[link to www.seis.utah.edu]

The YPK on October 23:

[link to www.seis.utah.edu]


In contrast to the YPC on October 23:

[link to www.seis.utah.edu]

Incidentally, the LKWY seems strangely active today.

[link to isthisthingon.org]

[link to www.seis.utah.edu]



I can't seem to find a really great (free)topographical map showing the sensors.

[link to volcanoes.usgs.gov]

[link to rmmcweb.cr.usgs.gov]

This is kind of cool and shows a color topography of the park halfway down the page:
[link to www.geology.wisc.edu]


I do a bit more reading and see what else I can find. Thanks for your input and cheers

Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/24/2011 08:46 PM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2011 09:32 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
OP please be super careful ..I can see fish-tank accident or
something similar coming...God Bless!
emerald eye  (OP)
Keeping an "eye out" for the truth.

User ID: 1554083
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10/24/2011 09:38 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Speaking of long period events, what got me started looking at the park very closely again where some events that occurred around mid September of this year (2011) that looked suspiciously like long period events to me and apparently a few others..



These are what seismographic long period events look like:

[link to volcanogeek.files.wordpress.com]

Here is a description of them from Volcanogeek. These were the events that were first recognized and described by Dr. Chouet

[link to volcanogeek.wordpress.com]

"Then a really smart guy got to work on the problem. Bernard Chouet and his colleague got to looking over the seismic records of the Ruiz eruption while modeling magma filled fractures in volcanoes, and Chouet had an epiphany."
"Chouet recognized them as resonance signatures, like those of a water hammer, vibrations of liquid rock surging through the fissures of a volcano."

"Chouet noted that in previous seismic records these had increased in frequency until the point of eruption. They were in fact the signals of a pressurizing volcano, and he would use them to successfully predict two future eruptions, those of the Redoubt volcano in the Aleutians, and that of Popocatepetl in Mexico, where timely evacuation saved many lives."


Once again, pictures of long period events:
[link to volcanogeek.files.wordpress.com]

These types of events were discussed on the volcanogeek website on both Sept 14 and 15, 2011 with some analysis of Yellowstone:

[link to volcanogeek.wordpress.com]
[link to volcanogeek.wordpress.com]

The Volcanogeek website posted an update, that included this about Yellowstone On September 19th, almost halfway down the page:

"Yellowstone continues to be interesting for me, this event turned up on the YPK station inside the park. It’s not all quiet at that station on the east end of the caldera, and after what I saw there on the 12th just after midnight I’m keeping a close eye on the east end of the park as well as the seismographs at Red Lodge to the east of the park. The YMR station continues to display it’s daily cycle of seismicity, and at the MCID station at the western end of the caldera I see this very interesting sine wave form on the seismograph. I’ve seen that before, most recently after the Vancouver quake on the St. Helens seismographs. It also appears on the YLA station and the YSB station to a lesser degree. I haven’t seen this very often, and I’m very much wanting to know what it means. It seems like a long wave and slow harmonic to me, and might be a slow movement of magma. At any rate it’s very interesting.

[link to volcanogeek.wordpress.com]


(GLP cut and paste rules respected.)
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while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


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mezroy
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10/24/2011 09:40 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
your hot are you happily married?Thanks for the heads up on the biggie.Kinda in my intrest since I live in the dakotas.I was in the 1980 st helens whammy you dont one none of that.
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/24/2011 09:47 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
OP please be super careful ..I can see fish-tank accident or
something similar coming...God Bless!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3889355


Thanks,hf

I promise to be careful. My hubby is a GLP regular, and if anything happens to me I am sure he would make it known to all of you, and then he would hunt down whoever did it and even the score.doomsol

I had to chuckle slightly about the "fish-tank" accident...I sure hope not, but for some reason it struck me as a bit funny.

The "fish-tank" accident, the new weapon of TPTB.

Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/25/2011 07:30 AM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


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Stormy Willow

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10/24/2011 09:49 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Wow! You have done an amazing job!! Very nice post and very informative!! Thank you :)

bump
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/24/2011 09:54 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
your hot are you happily married?Thanks for the heads up on the biggie.Kinda in my intrest since I live in the dakotas.I was in the 1980 st helens whammy you dont one none of that.
 Quoting: mezroy 3590655


Yes, I'm very happily married. kiss Hubby is a real sweetie.

Take care in the Dakotas. I love the Black Hills area, its really beautiful.

We are looking at a winter storm coming in tomorrow. I think that you may miss this one as it seems to be heading south. cheers
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Burt Gummer

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10/24/2011 09:57 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Good thread OP.

Me thinks you should go for a Seismic Engineering degree if you like this stuff so much.
Make your hobby, and what you love to do, pay you. thumbs
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/24/2011 10:08 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Good thread OP.

Me thinks you should go for a Seismic Engineering degree if you like this stuff so much.
Make your hobby, and what you love to do, pay you. thumbs
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Anyway here are some of the events mid September that possibly looked like long period (type B events) to me. (All YPK, but some of the other stations picked these up as well)

Sept 14:
[link to isthisthingon.org]

Sept 15:
[link to isthisthingon.org]

Sept 16:

[link to isthisthingon.org]

Not sure what this was on Sept 17:
[link to isthisthingon.org]

Sept 18:

[link to isthisthingon.org]

Sept 19:

[link to isthisthingon.org]

I am not sure what the hell was going on at YHB on the west end of the park Sept 13-14:

[link to isthisthingon.org]

[link to isthisthingon.org]

Food for thought. hmm
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/24/2011 10:15 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Good thread OP.

Me thinks you should go for a Seismic Engineering degree if you like this stuff so much.
Make your hobby, and what you love to do, pay you. thumbs
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Thanks,hf

I do love what my current career is, but this is a fun hobby. I might consider something when I slow down a bit.

My undergraduate work is in science, but I was never really that fond of math.poop (not enough for an engineering degree anyway), and I barely remember calculus.uhoh
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
OVRANALYZE

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10/24/2011 10:19 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
great over analysis. lol..just kidding. i think this is fine research you have done. interesting indeed.
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2011 10:25 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
ONLY read half of page one .... BUT, you pointed the finger at the culprit yourself when you noted all the 'adjustment' UP in the past !

Would ONLY be logical they made another 'adjustment' to hide any real data 'escaping' to the public. THINK of the panic ( people NOT going to work; NOT paying taxes; having time to THINK about things, like exploding volcanos, etc. ).

" We can't have panic in the West, Obammy said, on national TV. Now, dead bodies everywhere CAN be cleaned UP, and put a lot of unemployed to work TOO !"

Hi, Emerald eyes ! Just a VERY little insight, and possibly a little levity.
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2011 10:31 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Good thread OP.

Me thinks you should go for a Seismic Engineering degree if you like this stuff so much.
Make your hobby, and what you love to do, pay you. thumbs
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Thanks,hf

I do love what my current career is, but this is a fun hobby. I might consider something when I slow down a bit.

My undergraduate work is in science, but I was never really that fond of math.poop (not enough for an engineering degree anyway), and I barely remember calculus.uhoh
 Quoting: emerald eye




EmeraldEye : Thank you so much for your investigation on this matter, I know of the inference to the other site, and hopefully Samm wont be here to troll, or attempt to highjack the thread, hated the fact that the "Trip" was derailed, perhaps he might join in the conversation and back on track. I will be following closely !

Thank you, once again.

edit: For +5 and Karma !

bump
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2011 10:32 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
well OP, I don't have enough hours in the day to be a serious magmatard, but I do have a general interest and appreciate the efforts of ones who are. thankyou.hf

On editing I am informed by a geophysicist not from earth, that yellowstone has huge lava tubes going practically everywhere in this country. One of these that runs thru Oklahoma into Arkansas was the cause of the bird and fish kills there months ago. And Yellowstone caldera majorally outlets to those pacific northwest mountains, I forget totally which ones, but one is Rainer.
suvalley

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10/24/2011 10:34 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Whoa, EmeraldEye...I just checked the example of the chart showing the long wave, and my hair stood right up-I knew I had seen that signature before, many times.

And I had. Mt Redoubt. I check the AVO webicorders semi regularly and as an Alaskan, its only prudent to be aware of risks.

Just stunned, thanks for the link!
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2011 10:34 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Great job Emerald Eye very informative as usual. Thanks for all the great links .
asymetriclogic

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10/24/2011 10:39 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Very nice post. Probably the best I've seen here on GLP in years related to Geology, vulcanism, and earthquakes.

A couple of questions:

Because magma is viscous and frequencies are absorbed does that affect the other monitors out there? Or do the geologists look for certain frequencies for the type of strata they are dealing with? Something like rocks vibrate at different frequencies depending on the pressures involved and the atomic make up of the rock itself.
Where spirit, logic, intuition, and truth intermingle.

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emerald eye  (OP)
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10/24/2011 10:51 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
ONLY read half of page one .... BUT, you pointed the finger at the culprit yourself when you noted all the 'adjustment' UP in the past !

Would ONLY be logical they made another 'adjustment' to hide any real data 'escaping' to the public. THINK of the panic ( people NOT going to work; NOT paying taxes; having time to THINK about things, like exploding volcanos, etc. ).

" We can't have panic in the West, Obammy said, on national TV. Now, dead bodies everywhere CAN be cleaned UP, and put a lot of unemployed to work TOO !"

Hi, Emerald eyes ! Just a VERY little insight, and possibly a little levity.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1156256


Thanks, I always appreciate levity.lmao

I am still waiting for trolls, so far none that I can detect. 3....2....1...
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
emerald eye  (OP)
Keeping an "eye out" for the truth.

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10/24/2011 11:27 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Very nice post. Probably the best I've seen here on GLP in years related to Geology, vulcanism, and earthquakes.

A couple of questions:

Because magma is viscous and frequencies are absorbed does that affect the other monitors out there? Or do the geologists look for certain frequencies for the type of strata they are dealing with? Something like rocks vibrate at different frequencies depending on the pressures involved and the atomic make up of the rock itself.
 Quoting: asymetriclogic


What I am really attempting to explore is a bit of amateur seismic tomography.

[link to www.iris.edu]

Just like an ultrasound in medicine is used to bounce sound waves in and out of the body, with the differential responses depending upon the type and density of tissues is used to create a picture, so can seismic impulses through the earth help to create a picture of the interior.

More specifically in this instance, to obtain information about the magma chamber at Yellowstone and elsewhere as in this example.

(I did wish to quote from this, but I am not sure if I will get dinged by the copyright police, so read the article, and especially the conclusion.)

[link to www.yellowstonegis.utah.edu]




This was published in 2004, possibly showing a more superficial area of gas (and possibly magma) at the northwestern area of the park, based upon changes that occur with the P and S waves of earthquakes. More gas, and more superficial, tends to dampen or attenuate these earthquake waves. Now we are seeing with the recent October 21, and October 23 big earthquakes above 7, that were picked up by sensors world wide, a couple of the Yellowstone sensors (This time more toward the north east and near the Sour Creek resurgent dome) failing to respond to these big earthquakes. The question becomes is this attenuation due to shallow gas or magma chambers, or is there another explanation.

Another couple of references:

[link to www.unc.edu]

[link to www.mendeley.com]



[link to books.google.com]


That is a very basic summary of this thread.

I hope this helps.hf I need to get up really early tomorrow, so good night all. zzzzI will be back tomorrow (hopefully). sun

Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/24/2011 11:31 PM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
emerald eye  (OP)
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User ID: 1554083
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10/24/2011 11:35 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Whoa, EmeraldEye...I just checked the example of the chart showing the long wave, and my hair stood right up-I knew I had seen that signature before, many times.

And I had. Mt Redoubt. I check the AVO webicorders semi regularly and as an Alaskan, its only prudent to be aware of risks.

Just stunned, thanks for the link!
 Quoting: suvalley


Can you post a link to the AVO webicorders? I had one somewhere, but have so many links saved I can't find it right now. I would love to see it.

TIAhf
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
zacksavage

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10/24/2011 11:37 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Cool thread emerald.

I prefer to think of myself as a Magnetic Suntard,...

among other things.




Z
Free your mind,...your ass will follow.

--- parliament funkadelic
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/24/2011 11:42 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Cool thread emerald.

I prefer to think of myself as a Magnetic Suntard,...

among other things.




Z
 Quoting: zacksavage


Hi Zack, it is always good to see you.hf

Anything up with the sun right now? The magnetosphere looked like it got a short hard hit earlier.

Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/24/2011 11:43 PM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
emerald eye  (OP)
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10/24/2011 11:47 PM

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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Before I turn in, I forgot some of the links

What the hell was Norris doing September 23-30, 2011?

[link to isthisthingon.org]


[link to isthisthingon.org]

[link to isthisthingon.org]

[link to isthisthingon.org]

[link to isthisthingon.org]

[link to isthisthingon.org]

[link to isthisthingon.org]

[link to isthisthingon.org]

Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/24/2011 11:52 PM
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
zacksavage

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10/24/2011 11:51 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Hi Zack, it is always good to see you.hf

Anything up with the sun right now? The magnetosphere looked like it got a short hard hit earlier.
 Quoting: emerald eye


Yes, the sun is active. There is some CME action collated to the recent quake and some current aurora activity I believe.

There is a upper ring of sun spots that give a crown-like aspect from my perspective.

Of course,...you being science-minded, would be more astute at decyphering all that data than artsy-minded me. Left brain-Right brain thing.

I am aware that we are in a high energy time though.

I believe both human emotions and earth-changes will feel the effects increase in the coming year.



Z

Last Edited by zacksavage on 10/24/2011 11:54 PM
Free your mind,...your ass will follow.

--- parliament funkadelic
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2011 11:58 PM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Your keen intellect arouses the sleeping super volcano in my loins
Anonymous Coward
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10/25/2011 12:23 AM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Two weeks ago my wife and I spent four days of our vacation in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, visiting Yellowstone and the Grand Teton National Parks. I find your post very interesting, thoughts on exactly where I was did cross my mind a few times! The parks were fantastic, you just have to be there and see how magnificant the Teton mountains are, just awesome. We saw three bears, Bison, pronghorn antelope, moose, elk and mule deer. Drove thru a lot of Wyoming going from DIA in Denver and back, there is lot of beautiful open spaces in Wyoming. The video I am attaching was not filmed by me, but it gives a taste of the Yellowstone and Grand Teton area....

Jefiner

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10/25/2011 12:54 AM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
[link to www.avo.alaska.edu]

Links to all the webicorders in the AVO network are listed in the upper left hand corner of the page.

HTH. Good work, kiddo!
I would prefer not to.
quakeDOTtwipleDOTjp
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10/25/2011 01:37 AM
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Re: Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards
Speaking of Japan (I am now :) ), I don't see any activity there on the quake maps I check. I even pulled up the USGS list, and didn't see anything. Is it just because I'm blind with exhaustion?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3321877


USGS does not report all Japanese quake and sometimes misses afew of the medium-sized ones.

A bilingual site which records allquakes (except smaller temblors) is

http//:quake.twiple.jp/

If ou type simply - - quake.twiple.jp - - the website will pop up.

Go to the upper right hsnd corner of the site and click on English for a translation.

The MAG is a standard measurement, but the impact level in the column on the far right is the SHINDO or Japanese scale which is the really important assessment of the effect of the quake on people and structures in the area.

1,2,3,4,lower5,upper5,lower6,upper6,lower7,upper7

The above in the 10-point Japanese SHINDO impact scale for earthquakes.





GLP