Recent observations on Yellowstone for serious magmatards | |
Nacht im Walde
User ID: 3791955 Germany 10/22/2011 04:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | wow outstanding work! Unfortunately I`m not too much of a magmatard myself to tell if the s-wave blocking is caused by some shallow magma But good catch, definitely worth paying attention to. We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are. - Anais Nin |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/22/2011 04:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | wow outstanding work! Unfortunately I`m not too much of a magmatard myself to tell if the s-wave blocking is caused by some shallow magma But good catch, definitely worth paying attention to. Quoting: Nacht im Walde Thanks I would like to maintain this thread as a discussion area for serious magmatards about Yellowstone and other significant and dangerous volcanoes If it gets trolled too much, we will know that we are probably on to something. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1282760 United States 10/22/2011 04:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 2706830 United States 10/22/2011 05:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Jane Smith
Forum Administrator User ID: 1215902 United States 10/22/2011 05:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/22/2011 05:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks for the s I really appreciate them, maybe we can get a really interesting discussion that helps us better understand these monster volcanoes and how they behave and when they might cause problems. I really don't mean to imply that Yellowstone is "waking up", but rather to help explain these recent and troubling (to me anyway) observations. There has been so much activity recently with respect to volcanoes and earthquakes, it is now time for serious and open discussions about these matters. Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/22/2011 05:18 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3321877 United States 10/22/2011 05:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | U smaht cookie. You probably already checked, but in case not, Another Trippy Site had a very long thread going when things started getting cute over Yellowstone way a few years ago. I just checked it's still there and has been ongoing since 2008, it's miles long, "Whats going on at...". The thread had lots of graphics and links, don't know if those are still there because you might have to sign in to see 'em and I don't feel like it. Also some pretty creepy trolls, standard issue there. I cut my Yellowstone toothies on that thread, saw first-hand the machinations. It was following a different thread here on the same subject that pulled me into this place. |
Pink Cat with a Telephone Hat
User ID: 3687348 United States 10/22/2011 05:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3012799 United States 10/22/2011 05:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/22/2011 05:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | U smaht cookie. You probably already checked, but in case not, Another Trippy Site had a very long thread going when things started getting cute over Yellowstone way a few years ago. I just checked it's still there and has been ongoing since 2008, it's miles long, "Whats going on at...". The thread had lots of graphics and links, don't know if those are still there because you might have to sign in to see 'em and I don't feel like it. Also some pretty creepy trolls, standard issue there. I cut my Yellowstone toothies on that thread, saw first-hand the machinations. It was following a different thread here on the same subject that pulled me into this place. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3321877 Thanks I did in the past check that site (which cannot be named here) and they did have several very good threads on the subject. I haven't checked specifically for this particular information over there, I will try to do that later. Thanks for reminding me, and thanks for the laugh...Another Trippy Site Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3321877 United States 10/22/2011 07:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3321877 United States 10/23/2011 04:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Speaking of Japan (I am now :) ), I don't see any activity there on the quake maps I check. I even pulled up the USGS list, and didn't see anything. Is it just because I'm blind with exhaustion? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3321877 The thing that concerns me about the lack of data at other places, as well as Yellowstone, within a limited timespan, is the possibility that it may point at an overarching driving force (let's just make something up and say it's cosmic alignments affecting the sun) that is known to some and kept from the rest (us). |
Juliebean
User ID: 3833426 United States 10/23/2011 04:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3834360 Thailand 10/23/2011 04:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Good job here! I'm not a magmatard but I used to read somewhere that yellowstone is overdue for eruption. I really have a feeling it will blow very very soon like a sip of tea. This is based on my feeling though. This world is long overdue for many things, meteor strike and volcano . All 16 volcanoes in Indonesia alone on red alert, aira VEI 7( the one inside its cone had massive eruption yesterday). They all seem to wait for the big guy or maybe they are the opening sequences for the big guy. |
Mr.Quake
User ID: 1527450 United States 10/23/2011 06:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you go to the Yellowstone map of stations here: [link to www.quake.utah.edu] And take a look at where YPC and YMP are located, I thought you might be interested to see YMP's webicorder for 10/21 on that quake: [link to www.quake.utah.edu] It isn't even there! And with a sensitivity setting of 1066 mv, vs YPC's of 1600 mv, the signal should have been even stronger than YPC's, but it's not even there. And you see that YMP is only like 10 km north of YPC! So clearly, there is something attenuating both P and S waves (like a shallow magma chamber)- OR YMP is not functioning properly. And in Yellowstone that happens A LOT. ICE. A main culprit of telemetry error at Yellowstone, and something they battle constantly. Many of those spikey, thin vertical lines on seismos at YS are due to ICE. Notice also that YSB, even further north than either of those (and further from the 7.4 epicenter) recorded it clear at a 1333 mv setting: [link to www.quake.utah.edu] With that being the case, I am inclined to first go for a malfunctioning station. Generally speaking, after watching YS for years and yes, participating as a regular on your trippy site there, we usually don't see a situation where attenuation is so great on teleseisims (quakes from far away) at any one particular station. Then again, I can't say I have really been looking out for that- essentially doing your own amateur seismic tomography of sorts from observation of differences in registered teleseisims at various stations. Very curious indeed, but am inclined towards station/digitizer or other network malfunction. Just my $.02. Last Edited by Mr.Quake on 10/23/2011 06:24 AM |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/23/2011 01:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks to all of you who responded for your pleasant discussion and commentary and stars. Mr. Quake, thanks for posting the station map. I should have included it in the original post, but became overwhelmed with the links that I was trying to include, so thanks for adding that. If you will look at today’s maps (10-23-11) either through the University of Utah site or the “isthhisthething.org” site you will see the recordings for today’s 7.2 eastern Turkey quake showing very similar attenuation patterns to the October 21 quake attenuation patterns. (I tend to like the “isthisthething.org” site because you can see all of the active sensors at once.) [link to www.isthisthingon.org] I usually discount the LKWY site a bit, because that sensor looks like it often has some type of glitch in it., but even that one recorded the S waves from today’s quake. [link to www.isthisthingon.org] Likewise the YMC sensor doesn’t seem to record much of anything ever, so I have often thought that it was just broken, and it did not record today’s quake either. (I am hoping that it is not because there is a reaalllly shallow magma chamber there, but I was thinking that the YMC sensor is broken because it never seems to respond to anything in a very seismically active area like Yellowstone.) [link to www.isthisthingon.org] The YMP is interesting, because it also barely responds to anything as well, so I thought maybe it doesn’t work very well, but maybe something is going on there as well. It is very close to the YPC near the sour dome area. [link to www.isthisthingon.org] The reason the YPC caught my eye is because it reacts to a lot of other stuff, and seems fairly active, reacting well to other stimuli. Because it reacts well to the other stimuli, I don’t think it is frozen or that ice would cause it not to react to the S waves of large quakes, as it still seems to respond to its local environments, marching to the beat of its own drummer, so to speak. There were no significant S waves from today’s 7.2 quake. but there were other responses, so I tend not to think it is frozen. [link to www.isthisthingon.org] For comparison and contrast the nearby YPP also at 1600 mv shows today’s quake well: [link to www.isthisthingon.org] Here is the tracing from the full day of the YPP on October 21. As you can see, there were no significant S waves from the Pacific quake that day which did hit the other sensors at around 11:10 (local MST), with S waves generated from around 11:41 (MST) through 12:00 (MST) with the peak being at around 11:45 (MST). In simple terms the largest waves was on the first part of the 11:45 (MST) green line for the other sensors, but not the YPP. It showed a completely different pattern, much more similar to its patterns the previous week. The 11:45 (MST) green line was relativity quiet while the subsequent lines were more active. It was also quite active later that day, and therefore I do not believe that it was frozen, but rather it is attenuating S waves of distant quakes, while very much marching to its own much more local drummer. [link to www.isthisthingon.org] In comparison here again is the nearby YPK sensor demonstrating how most of the other park sensors responded on the 10-21-11 Pacific quake, which was quite a different response from the YPC, even though both are set at 1600 mv. [link to www.isthisthingon.org] So, I still think there is evidence for some type of anomalous behavior of the YPC sensor and possibly the YMP sensor. This may be related to a shallower magma chamber than else where in the park or other factors of which I am unaware. I realize that the type of understructure influences the S wave propagation, and there are probably other substructures that dampen S wave propagations, but in Yellowstone, the thought of shallow molten magma must become a consideration. I am not trying to be a fear monger here, just trying to bounce some ideas around about some recent observations. I will certainly be watching this further today to see how the YPC responds the rest of today, and in coming days and weeks. YPC sensor suddenly goes offline I will know that the guys in Utah are messing with us. Thanks again for all of your responses Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/23/2011 01:30 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/23/2011 01:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | BTW, Mr. Quake, since you mentioned “Another Trippy Site”, do you happen to know if there is a similar thread there? I rarely go there anymore, I really like GLP so much more. I got in a huge fight over there with someone about vaccine safety (I think that there are many problems with vaccines), and I haven’t been back since. TIA Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/23/2011 01:40 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Mr.Quake
User ID: 1527450 United States 10/23/2011 01:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Another thing that may be affecting this is the type of channels and frequency filtering they are using at different stations around YS. Some may be set for particular purposes, and it could affect what frequencies it is "tuned" to. But if you like I can shoot JL an email at the YVO and ask, or you could. I am sure there is probably an explanation. |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/23/2011 02:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Another thing that may be affecting this is the type of channels and frequency filtering they are using at different stations around YS. Quoting: Mr.Quake Some may be set for particular purposes, and it could affect what frequencies it is "tuned" to. But if you like I can shoot JL an email at the YVO and ask, or you could. I am sure there is probably an explanation. Sure, give it a shot. Ask why they turned the YPC back on after 8 years and ask about the YMS as well. Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/23/2011 02:16 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Mr.Quake
User ID: 1527450 United States 10/23/2011 02:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bah, probably married with 10 kids... :( lol, just kidding :) (sort of) And no, don't know of a similar thread with this particular issue at the other site. I'll see if I can get an answer for you. :) Last Edited by Mr.Quake on 10/23/2011 02:51 PM |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/23/2011 05:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wow, ok. How can I resist? TIA's pretty, smart, and likes to study earthquakes and such... Quoting: Mr.Quake Bah, probably married with 10 kids... :( lol, just kidding :) (sort of) And no, don't know of a similar thread with this particular issue at the other site. I'll see if I can get an answer for you. :) married, two kids only. 10 sounds like a nightmare. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/23/2011 10:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here are the seismographs in the Canaries showing the same phenomena form today's (October 23) earthquake in Turkey. Actively erupting El Hierro showed almost really no impact from the October 23 7.2 earthquake in Eastern Turkey, as the shallow magma chamber seems to have severely attenuated both the P and S waves. This is interesting, because the sensor is very active, showing the harmonics of the currently erupting EL Hierro but the earthquake is not displayed even though this earthquake rung the sensors worldwide like a bell. [link to www.01.ign.es] For comparison here is the seismograph from nearby Fuerteventura: [link to www.01.ign.es] Here is the nearby Lanzarote: [link to www.01.ign.es] Here is the nearby La Gomera: [link to www.01.ign.es] Here is the nearby Grand Canaria: [link to www.01.ign.es] Here is the nearby Tenerife which appears to be on a different scale (sorry, I don't read Spanish well) but still shows evidence of the quake: [link to www.01.ign.es] And as for La Palma, that one seems to have been shut off for a while with no explanation that I am aware of : [link to www.01.ign.es] This was also noteworthy during the October 21 earthquake in the Pacific with the same result. This was what started me questioning the same apparent phenomena and wondering about the shallower magma areas of the Yellowstone volcano, which seems to behave similarly in not displaying large earthquakes that are picked up well by surrounding seismographs as well as global seismographs on especially the YPC sensor. Food for thought anyway. Have a happy Sunday evening everyone. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
suvalley
User ID: 3901097 United States 10/24/2011 01:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | EmeraldEye, thanks for the thread, I have it pinned. In terms of volcanism, there is a lot of activity now. Three or four going on Kamchatka, for example. A quake or two in WA state. Do you visit Eruptions @ wired science? Lots of good data there. I am sure you would have many good discussions with others of similar mindset :) |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/24/2011 02:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | EmeraldEye, thanks for the thread, I have it pinned. Quoting: suvalley In terms of volcanism, there is a lot of activity now. Three or four going on Kamchatka, for example. A quake or two in WA state. Do you visit Eruptions @ wired science? Lots of good data there. I am sure you would have many good discussions with others of similar mindset :) Thanks friend. Yes, I have been there as well as several other sites. They are talking about El Hierro, but quiet on Yellowstone for now. [link to www.wired.com] Jon Firmann has a very good blog about the Iceland volcanoes, but he also covers other events such as El Hierro: [link to www.jonfr.com] Nothing move as fast as GLP though in terms of exposure and breaking news when events happen. Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3903363 Thailand 10/24/2011 02:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/24/2011 02:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Yellowstone seismographs in general picked up the earthquake in Turkey, just as they did around the world. [link to aslwww.cr.usgs.gov] What is unusual, and the topic of discussion in this thread, is the differential way that those various seismographs throughout the park reacted and why they did so. [link to isthisthingon.org] Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
Mr.Quake
User ID: 1527450 United States 10/24/2011 05:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Epic Beard Guy
User ID: 1079209 United States 10/24/2011 02:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It would be interesting to talk to the park rangers around Pelican Cone. I wonder if there have been any changes in the land or the animal population. If the magma is moving close to the surface, the animals could sense it. They know these things way before people do. If the Animal population is moving out, it could be that something is coming soon. It could also be that land is rising on top of the magma. That has happened in Yellowstone before. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/24/2011 02:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | lol, I just realized that "TIA" means "Thanks in Advance" or something, and is not your name... Sorry emerald. Quoting: Mr.Quake Anyway, I'll see if I can get an email out today or this week- would have been useless over the weekend. I posted this on the El Hierro thread yesterday, but it also belongs here. I think serious magmatards will enjoy reading this. BTW "TIA" was meant to be "thanks in advance" but I kind of like the sound of it, and will adopt it as my GLP nickname. "Attenuation in gas-charged magma" "Magma is highly viscous and above the nucleation depth contains gas in the form of bubbles. Chouet(1996a) suggests that such a gas-charged magma is highly attenuative, very quickly damping any seismic waves propagating within it." ftp://geos.gsi.gov.il/pub/Vladi/papers/Collier_et_al.pdf (For some reason, I can't get this link to highlight, but if you cut and paste into your browser it should work.) Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/24/2011 02:52 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |
emerald eye
(OP) Keeping an "eye out" for the truth. User ID: 1554083 United States 10/24/2011 02:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It would be interesting to talk to the park rangers around Pelican Cone. I wonder if there have been any changes in the land or the animal population. If the magma is moving close to the surface, the animals could sense it. They know these things way before people do. If the Animal population is moving out, it could be that something is coming soon. It could also be that land is rising on top of the magma. That has happened in Yellowstone before. Quoting: Epic Beard Guy Yes, it would be very interesting to get up there and speak to the rangers. I wish I had time to go right now, but maybe someone else does, who is closer, and could report in. I would also like to know if there have been any new thermal features in that area and what the temps are and if there have been changes in gas or other compositions. "TIA" Last Edited by emerald eye on 10/24/2011 02:57 PM Courage forges a path through all obstacles, while fear is the obstruction of all dreams. The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing. |