Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?

Really? How much technology existed before the free market US came to be? Even the richest kings were shitting in pots and reading by candlelight. Now, even the poorest in this country live far better and more comfortably than the richest royalty did just 200 years ago. That is thanks to capitalism.

Yeah right, lets go live and be enslaved in the capitalist region, lol ;)

But seriously, there is a posibility for a brighter future. The problem is todays system, not potential issues with other systems. Any future system would have to be resource based (fact), since resources are finite we can't go on like we are going now, we literary can not do it. So the Venus Project is on the right track in my opinion, with exception for the robots, the scifi houses and a lot of other stuff. Actualy, when I look at their propaganda material and turn the audio off, I see a eco fascist society, so I think something is wrong there.

Anyway, any system that does not benefit the general public at large, in very obsious ways, has to be enforced. I think for any system to be "obvious" in that sense, we the people have to really see and experience the other side, the lesser alternatives, first. People need the fail to see the win. Right now they are not even looking.

[X} Post-Apocalyptic Hunter-Gatherer

There is another perspective to this discussion. The changes of generations. You (yes you!) are brought up in one generation, the experience of your times limits your perspective. With the fast changes in society these days, your kids will live in a whole new world. To limit ourselves to "what is possible" under our generations point of view is just completely wrong.
When my parents grew up there were jobs for everyone, the future was looking bright. When I grew up, all that had changed, and even my little sister has a completely different set of experiences of the world around her.
Change is a lot more possible, and can happen a lot quicker, than our old generation minds can think of. The kids are the future. They see these things in ways we can't... It's like the world was flat when we grew up, and now it's round. Somehow, when I see the world in my minds eye, it will always be flat.

Does anyone see what I'm talking about?

Plenty , the most basic ones like steam engine was developed long before USA even existed.

Then capitalism emerged and was used as tool of control of profits instead of true development.

Brilliant scientists like Nicolas Tesla or Edwin Howard Armstrong was destroyed and their work hijacked.



Thats what i am saying the technology is responsible for progress not free market capitalism .

First were inventions, then it was possible for capitalism to emerge.

I am not saying I agree with your post, but you do have valid points along with those I have read so far. As a Libertarian Conservative guy, I see the nation fractured and divided. I saw it happening during my adolescence and now solidified in mid life. The country has become so balkanized through multiculturalism and political philosophy I do not see a bright future at all, and our eventual collapse as these groups all fight for their tribute and special considerations from the Federal and State governments.

We in America have no one really to blame but ourselves. We used to be an Industrial powerhouse. We lead the world in Technological advancement. Through various socialist agendas with a mixture of corporate cronyism, we have lost most of those manufacturing/technology jobs to the emerging third world. We have enlarged a lethargic, ill educated (albeit expensive) population more concerned with progressive indoctrination than real world learning. We have coddled, made excuses for, and financed a culture that is killing us. We swim in the rat race and materialism. We covet what our neighbors have whether or not we have the means, and if not, we either go into hock over our heads and enslaved to the banks and credit companies...or demand it from government as a perceived "right". With the percentage of those "pulling the cart" losing ground against the percentage of those "riding in the cart" it is another indication of our decline, and the government can only conduct bread and circuses and print/borrow money to keep the populace satisfied. And that’s the ultimate rub...

We are going to be pulled into a more authoritarian society, possibly global, with a further rift between the haves and have not’s as the bankers and politicians fleece the flock, liberties, and our sovereignty.

Technology is most often the direct result of capitalism. often times people create or improve something because of the profit incentive, "Build a better mousetrap....." idiots like you believe you can remove the profit incentive and people will not change their behavior as a result. never has worked, never will work. Socialism / communism depend upon a wholesale alteration of human nature, which is why those systems always fail. Human nature never changes.

New alternative has to come, where the banks don´t bride and control EVERYTHING.

Where not only lawyers who are good at waffling get into politics.

Similar to the system of the Minbari grey council but leaving the religious nuts out.

Equally represented should be 2/5 from the working class (because the have to build everything we need), 1/5 from the military 1/5 from agriculture (because without food we die) and 1/5 from big industry. And an alternating leader from each group is selected at the beginning of each year as a figurehead.

No unelected upper house, but a vote using modern technology on major issues like going to war.

No one can earn more than 5 million a year in profit, because no one needs more than that. The other profits over the 5 million should go to help the poor and help build a renewable energy network, that is loads of solar panels in deserts like death valley to harness the power of the sun.

And very important agriculture needs to but supplemented so food is home grown because importing all the food on the cheap is good now, but if something happens to cut of that tap, we are fucked.

Note I´m not an expert on economics or politics and just dreamed this up on the spur of the moment, so any ideas to add to it would be appreciated.

Well let us see if GLP is really looking for alternatives to today's debauchee society. I say every time I post the idea of returning to the ancient Arya ways of division by quality and/of actions(equally standardized as delineated in the Vedas) the thread dies of starvation(no posts) or is removed!

Now that thread last night, about sending brown races back to their country of origin was just to degraded a subject, so I had to get mad. But the other attempts were not so frothed with agree over low life judging a book by the cover. But really why remove the thread? Because the idea of social stability is repulsive to GLP.

And that is just the root problem in today's world. Top is actually the bottom, bottom is actually the top.

Arya view the human social body as represented in the human physical body. The head is the ultimate leader, the arms/shoulder protect the body. The stomach feeds the body and the legs/knees/feet move/transports the body.

You can not live by eating through your hands! Try as you may, no one can gain sustenance by eating/taking nourishment through the hands. The legs or feet have no ability to interact/control/monitor the activities of the whole body such as the brain does. Get it?

There in lays your problem with todays world, change yourselves and change the world. You keep feet as leaders and actually expect them be of a higher quality. Repetitively trying to rearrange the chess board is not change. Through the damn game out on it's ear! It has been a massive failure for 3000 yrs! We must return to the OLD(5K back) ways.

Bhagavad-Gita 4.13
According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable.

Purport
The Lord is the creator of everything. Everything is born of Him, everything is sustained by Him, and everything, after annihilation, rests in Him. He is therefore the creator of the four divisions of the social order, beginning with the intelligent class of men, technically called brahmanas due to their being situated in the mode of goodness. Next is the administrative class, technically called the ksatriyas due to their being situated in the mode of passion. The mercantile men, called the vaisyas, are situated in the mixed modes of passion and ignorance, and the sudras, or laborer class, are situated in the ignorant mode of material nature. In spite of His creating the four divisions of human society, Lord Krsna does not belong to any of these divisions, because He is not one of the conditioned souls, a section of whom form human society. Human society is similar to any other animal society, but to elevate men from the animal status, the abovementioned divisions are created by the Lord for the systematic development of Krsna consciousness. The tendency of a particular man toward work is determined by the modes of material nature which he has acquired. Such symptoms of life, according to different modes of material nature, are described in the Eighteenth Chapter of this book. A person in Krsna consciousness, however, is above even the brahmanas, because a brahmana by quality is supposed to know about Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth. Most of them approach the impersonal Brahman manifestation of Lord Krsna, but only a man who transcends the limited knowledge of a brahmana and reaches the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna, becomes a person in Krsna consciousness-or, in other words, a Vaisnava. Krsna consciousness includes knowledge of all different plenary expansions of Krsna, namely Rama, Nrsimha, Varaha, etc. However, as Krsna is transcendental to this system of the four divisions of human society, a person in Krsna consciousness is also transcendental to all divisions of human society, whether we consider the divisions of community, nation or species.

BG. 18.41
Brahmanas, ksatriya, vaisyas and sudras are distinguished by their qualities of work, O chastiser of the enemy, in accordance with the modes of nature.

BG. 18.42
Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness-these are the qualities by which the brahmanas work

BG. 18.43
Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the ksatriyas.

BG. 18.44
Farming, cow protection and business/trade/banking are the qualities of work for the vaisyas, and for the sudras there is labor and service to others.(END)

Nothing above is by force! You are what(by free will) you do. It is called a meritorious society. This is CHANGE you can believe in and be freed from the yoke of artificial oppression by tptb/were!!!

But I say this is just an exercise in futility with you people. And GLP is an agenda driven network from the ptb to retain you in stupidity, thereby slavery! Just look at what passes for topics! This is aMerika people. Stay the same nothing will change. Change by it's very definition is absolutely lacking. Except in a down ward spiral.

M

We need true democracy like the one that was and maybe will be in Libya. Homes for people being given for free, loans with no interest. Central banks controlled by the state.
And many projects made by the goverment that will be controlled by the people not paid puppets.

This is what you are being told your whole life no wonder you believe in this dogma like religious people believe in their crap.

Fact 1: There plenty of documented scientists that has been destroyed and their work hijacked by free market entrepreneurs because their work was direct threat to their existance on the market.

Fact 2: Theres plenty of experiments done even by economists that shows that monetary incentive only works on simple mechanical algorithmic tasks . _ Those kind jobs can be easly automated even today.

In case of creativity money actually create worse performance.People are much better driven by autonomy , self mastery and purpose , money actually stifle creativity.

And as we know technology is a result of creativity not work of muscles.



It is you who is idiot because profit incentive has always existed even in communism.



You are 90% the result of your environment , if you were born in middle east you would be most likely pray to Allah 5 times a day , and your "human nature" would have nothing to do with it.

You are classic product of American consumerism society. Capitalism has achieved something communism has failed , produce obedient brainless workers.

I'm not going to use labels, because I'd probably get it wrong and someone would want to argue semantics. There is no point in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The American system has worked fairly well for a lot of people, but many many flaws have been exposed and there is no way to fix them. We The People have no way to ensure that the Constitution is followed or that our representatives are doing our bidding instead of doing what is good for themselves.
I actually prefer the parliamentarian system where the leader of the majority party is the Prime Minister. If he gets 2 or 3 no confidence votes, it's time for new elections.
There should BE NO LOBBYISTS! There should be no retirement for politicians after serving one term. There should not be a revolving door between govt and business. (Rumsfeld and aspartame are the prime example)
A system where we have 535 people in washington making laws and several hundred in each state making new laws is bound to create a police state. There are just Too many laws being created. The high point of many civilizations is the cannonization of a set of laws that people can understand. Maybe the laws that one legislative body creates should not be put into place until the Next elected legislative body reviews it. And then There should also be a revolving "citizens" committee to review all laws before they are put into use.
A small interest group (jewish people) were allowed to take over our govt, our money, and our media and our institutions. That just shouldn't be possible.
We need more education in our schools about the problems of government. The govt studies that I had in school are light years away from what actually happens.
The people need an omsbudman system with some actual system to effect change.
Lie detectors should be used in all political speeches and lying by politicians should be punished.
ABolish the Fed. Abolish the CIA. Abolish the FBI. Abolish all committees to make all the laws equal in all states.
Make ALL govt operations open to view. No maverick CIA agents are allowed to foment rebellion in the US or in any other country.
We are a Republic, and not an Empire. Make it so.
Stop being the world's policeman.

Same old game will yield the same old debauchery. Democracy always deteriorates into mob rule. Or wait it is mob rule from the beginning! Mobs almost never have any brains or how the hell did we get here and now if democracy is so stellar? Popular vote means popular people will be elected. This election process can not/does not guarantee high quality results. As we painfully see in evidence today, throughout the world!

M

I only stop to laugh, not at you directly, because on the highlighted point...the very same folks who rail against Big Oil and fossil fuels are the very same econuts that will picket, petition, and scream when you set up these solar arrays that disrupt so much as a flea in that ecosystem. Just sayin...

The economic system isn't so much the problem... Look at the monetary system and Corporations. Corporations at one time had to PROVE that they were GOOD for society.. not anymore!

Easy way to solve this problem in the US: Bring back the green back!

Trying to tie our economic system to Gold and Silver would be disastrous. However, States are required and aught to ... This isn't as much of a problem when its more localized. Maybe more States could start State Banks!

Resource based economy is the ONLY true answer to our problems, anything else is patching the same broken box...

i agree, greece needs to be the gineau pig once they collapse in the current system.

In a RBE we don't force people to join... We Show people that working with one another and cooperation is way better than competition. When people who disagree see the results they'll join for themselves. There will not be a Mandatory participation. That is Stupid and would lead to war...

Free Market Capitalism was always a transitional system anybody with an ounce of sense can see that, the problem is there is a lot of money to be made in it by a small % of people at the cost of everybody else. With so much money still on the table people are reluctant to do the right thing, whats worst they have managed to convince the bottom feeders its in there interest, truly you have to take your hat off to them. People are dumb fucks and dumb fucks tend to get fucked

There appears to be a curious difficulty about exercising reflective thought upon the actual nature of an institution into which one was born and one’s ancestors were born. One accepts it as one does the atmosphere; one’s practical adjustments to it are made by a kind of reflex. One seldom thinks about the air until one notices some change, favourable or unfavourable, and then one’s thought about it is special; one thinks about purer air, lighter air, heavier air, not about air. So it is with certain human institutions. We know that they exist, that they affect us in various ways, but we do not ask how they came to exist, or what their original intention was, or what primary function it is that they are actually fulfilling; and when they affect us so unfavourably that we rebel against them, we contemplate substituting nothing beyond some modification or variant of the same institution. Thus colonial America, oppressed by the monarchical State, brings in the republican State; Germany gives up the republican State for the Hitlerian State; Russia exchanges the monocratic State for the collectivist State; Italy exchanges the constitutionalist State for the “totalitarian” State.
Our Enemy The State - Albert Jay Nock - 1935

the ONLY 'system' I'm promoting is FREE PLANET

or free'd planet

free from... well, read the 70-page free ebook, at your leisure [link to www.lulu.com]

Obviously there is a great and powerful and clever conspiracy on the loose!

The only way to defuse this is too decentralize power so that it is less likely to be corrupted.

So Nation wide and World Wide Internet voting is necessary and must be accomplished.

Democracy is the opposite of corrupt conspiracies.

What we face is Supercomputer and Alien backed plans in ALL avenues of life: medicine, education, economy, business, food production, you name and the conspiracy is in it.

Get Internet voting going if it is the last thing you every do.

every single problem shown in this video was related to funding. in a resource based economy money is eliminated.

Excellent idea - 'cos there's definitely no way the internet can be hacked.

LOL

Anyway, we don't need no STEENKEEN RULERZ, this is a free planet; ask your God.

:anarkee:

I find it sad that GLPers are attacking the OP, rather than discuss the topics.

But money IS a resource. Besides, what about those without resources? There is poor people in all economic systems, so a new economic system needs to be figured out OR perhaps the economic system(s) aren't the problem. Maybe, just maybe fiat currencies make more sense than a currency being tied to commodities. The REAL PROBLEM here isn't inflation and deflation, which are EASILY managed .. but who CONTROLS it!

Money is not a resource, money is paper to which we give value. Paper is a resource. Money isn't. There are no "Poor people" in an RBE because there is no value in human labor. Inflation and deflation are controlled because we give power to the people with the most imaginary valued paper. Remove value remove power. It's that simple...

No old money would be a component. Money needs to expire.

The same system we currently have and will always have:
Hurray for me and Shit on you.

That's the way it always was and that's the way it will always be. You can name it whatever you want...