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Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1350471
United States
09/28/2011 05:07 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
The native Americans had a form of money called in the English vernacular "wampum', it was more or less a belt made of bead work.

This is why native americans valued beads, because they could literally make money out of them to trade with each other and even white traders in many instances. What gave the money value was the time it took to make it, and the material that went into making it. It actually had a value to them as art and craft work, and because of the cost and difficulty in obtaining the materials. A REAL CURRENCY MUST HAVE THESE SAME INTRINSIC QUALITIES OF VALUE.
...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1350471


...and therein lies the problem.

You have FIAT/FRACTIONAL currency based on "bank to bank IOU's"...and that is how MORE money is created by it being loaned out again and again....over and over.

If you did not have this ability....the economy would not be the powerhouse it is. (used to be anyway)
You would not have capital in the amounts necessary to finance many projects. The physical money would not be there to be loaned out.

SO....
The question then is.....who do you get the best of both worlds...but leave the constant bubbles for FIAT/FRACTIONAL RESERVE LENDING behind?

1dunno1
 Quoting: Burt Gummer

Maybe instead of being greedy and wanting more than you can produce, you should be content with what you can earn.

What you are talking about is creating wealth out of thin air and using it to obtain things that do have value, but in my experience this artificially created wealth requires the suffering and exploitation of some group or groups to function.

The average man can produce enough to feed himself, provide a comfortable home for his family with the basic necessities, and not much more. A banker produces nothing, for the record. This fiat system is parasitic to the working class, you know it, i know it, and especially THEY know it.

The unfortunate reality is that the system you defend promotes the least worthy, the best lair and the most ruthless killers, the people who have the most in this world are those who produce the least and deserve nothing , other than a bullet to the head.

These people have repeatedly started wars that they profit off of by loaning fiat currency to the governments embroiled in conflict on both sides, this system must not only be discarded , the people behind it need to be excised from the human race permanently. .
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 05:08 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I also 100% agree that we need a truely FREE currency with out a parasitic middle man piggy backing on it (wall street/the banksters). That in itself would solve much of societies problems.Probably with in just a decade or so.

Perhaps if we liberated money from the vampires and the pigs we could see some posative things happen. What if money was a constitutionally protected social institution? What if no matter what, the state could not legally do anything to harm "the currency".

I would be for a free more open society without bankers and intrest and debt. That would be fantastic. what we have now is total slavery.
Koelbren  (OP)

User ID: 1907778
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09/28/2011 05:15 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I also 100% agree that we need a truely FREE currency with out a parasitic middle man piggy backing on it (wall street/the banksters). That in itself would solve much of societies problems.Probably with in just a decade or so.

Perhaps if we liberated money from the vampires and the pigs we could see some posative things happen. What if money was a constitutionally protected social institution? What if no matter what, the state could not legally do anything to harm "the currency".

I would be for a free more open society without bankers and intrest and debt. That would be fantastic. what we have now is total slavery.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1127413


Freeing our currencies from interest would create a golden age, people would be better off and probably tensions would subside, there would be more will to help others, we could find ways to free ourselves from repetitive machine work and become inspired to dwell upon philosophical issues.

It's true that bankers and their debt slavery are the cancer of this world, they are the root of all evil. Life without them wouldn't be perfect but it would be a lot friggin better!.

But yeah I started a very popular thread a while ago about that subject and everyone overwhelmingly agreed, those fuckers must go.
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
GOP=GAY
User ID: 1499394
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09/28/2011 05:15 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
We need functional system.

I like something about European parliamentary system where president is separated from executive system by prime minister. Where president could not just say go kill some more Iraqis. Prime minister could tell him to go F himself.

But what we need is system that works. Government that efficient. Lean FDA that fast enough to respond to new drugs requests, but effective to weed out bad drugs, minor isomers of existing drugs, and punish intentional violators.

We need effective EPA, that protects and preserves our assets and not the any wet spot. EPA that help and not obstructive.

We need effective medical system, with reduced cost of care.

Effective farm bill, that helps smaller farms, not large corporate farms, makes food production sustainable.

Effective tariff that makes trade fair.

Effective tax code - so that every company paid share taxes on profits. Not few large cheaters rigged system so they don't have to pay a dime.

Effective education system, where schools are cost effective to build and maintain; top administrators are not looting funds destined for education with they high salaries and benefits. Where schools are not just a money hole for 75% of your local taxes.

Effective road/bridge construction administration. We had city installing six-roundabout for a little cost of $138 million. That is for small roundabout with two lanes
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1350471
United States
09/28/2011 05:15 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
The native Americans had a form of money called in the English vernacular "wampum', it was more or less a belt made of bead work.

This is why native americans valued beads, because they could literally make money out of them to trade with each other and even white traders in many instances. What gave the money value was the time it took to make it, and the material that went into making it. It actually had a value to them as art and craft work, and because of the cost and difficulty in obtaining the materials. A REAL CURRENCY MUST HAVE THESE SAME INTRINSIC QUALITIES OF VALUE.
...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1350471


...and therein lies the problem.

You have FIAT/FRACTIONAL currency based on "bank to bank IOU's"...and that is how MORE money is created by it being loaned out again and again....over and over.

If you did not have this ability....the economy would not be the powerhouse it is. (used to be anyway)
You would not have capital in the amounts necessary to finance many projects. The physical money would not be there to be loaned out.

SO....
The question then is.....who do you get the best of both worlds...but leave the constant bubbles for FIAT/FRACTIONAL RESERVE LENDING behind?

1dunno1
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Some form of agency that estimates the size and needs of the economy and prints the amount of currency needed for it's proper functioning, FREE OF INTEREST? I'd guess that was what the American congress was suppossed to do in the first place wasnt it?
 Quoting: Koelbren

Usury should be punishable by death.
Usury is how the working class is prevented from accumulating wealth, it is nothing more or less that theft.

If a person has collateral to put up, the loan should be available to that person free of tribute to a private banker.
And it is true that the Federal reserve is a violation of the Constitution of the United States, if which I was born a citizen. It has no right to issue currency or loan money to our government at interest, and by willingly participating in this parasitic scheme, the politicians themselves are traitors against their own country and it's people.

A politician is in it for the same thing the banksters are on a smaller scale, the big score from a gullible pigeon . And guess who the pigeons are?>
GOP=GAY
User ID: 1499394
United States
09/28/2011 05:15 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
We need functional system.

I like something about European parliamentary system where president is separated from executive system by prime minister. Where president could not just say go kill some more Iraqis. Prime minister could tell him to go F himself.

But what we need is system that works. Government that efficient. Lean FDA that fast enough to respond to new drugs requests, but effective to weed out bad drugs, minor isomers of existing drugs, and punish intentional violators.

We need effective EPA, that protects and preserves our assets and not the any wet spot. EPA that help and not obstructive.

We need effective medical system, with reduced cost of care.

Effective farm bill, that helps smaller farms, not large corporate farms, makes food production sustainable.

Effective tariff that makes trade fair.

Effective tax code - so that every company paid share taxes on profits. Not few large cheaters rigged system so they don't have to pay a dime.

Effective education system, where schools are cost effective to build and maintain; top administrators are not looting funds destined for education with they high salaries and benefits. Where schools are not just a money hole for 75% of your local taxes.

Effective road/bridge construction administration. We had city installing six-roundabout for a little cost of $138 million. That is for small roundabout with two lanes
Daikirai

User ID: 1528953
Netherlands
09/28/2011 05:17 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
..this world is not inhabited by ALL truthful, loving people, thus to make your system work you need to show me either how to magically turn everyone into truthful loving people or you have to kill the rest.
 Quoting: Koelbren


If you don't even know how this is accomplished, I won't bother you anymore.
Chi pecora si fa, il lupo se la mangia
Koelbren  (OP)

User ID: 1907778
Spain
09/28/2011 05:21 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
..this world is not inhabited by ALL truthful, loving people, thus to make your system work you need to show me either how to magically turn everyone into truthful loving people or you have to kill the rest.
 Quoting: Koelbren


If you don't even know how this is accomplished, I won't bother you anymore.
 Quoting: Daikirai


Oh please, who are you God? I am humbly saying I dont know how you accomplish it, if you dont have the time to bother explaining your views you shouldn't be on an internet forum to begin with.


grumpy2
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1127413
United States
09/28/2011 05:29 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I also 100% agree that we need a truely FREE currency with out a parasitic middle man piggy backing on it (wall street/the banksters). That in itself would solve much of societies problems.Probably with in just a decade or so.

Perhaps if we liberated money from the vampires and the pigs we could see some posative things happen. What if money was a constitutionally protected social institution? What if no matter what, the state could not legally do anything to harm "the currency".

I would be for a free more open society without bankers and intrest and debt. That would be fantastic. what we have now is total slavery.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1127413


Freeing our currencies from interest would create a golden age, people would be better off and probably tensions would subside, there would be more will to help others, we could find ways to free ourselves from repetitive machine work and become inspired to dwell upon philosophical issues.

It's true that bankers and their debt slavery are the cancer of this world, they are the root of all evil. Life without them wouldn't be perfect but it would be a lot friggin better!.

But yeah I started a very popular thread a while ago about that subject and everyone overwhelmingly agreed, those fuckers must go.
 Quoting: Koelbren


Agreed!
We should start another thread to discuss this more in depth. Eliminating the bankers ability to charge intrest and and print money would easily solve a lot of today's issues.

The question is, what Kind of problems could we foresee in that, what steps could we take to avoid those problems and how do we printer this meme in an easier more easy to grasp manner?

I mean it's a pretty cut and dry solution but it's gotta be "sold" to people.


Liberate the money!!!! No interests!No fiat! No state or private control mechanisms.
AnonyMouse Howard

User ID: 2209573
United States
09/28/2011 05:31 AM

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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Nothing will work for an immoral people.

The system is not the problem, its us.

(Sorry to be so preachy but it is the truth)

Forcing people to be decent at gun point will not work. The wicked always seem to end up holding the guns.

Supporting the wicked will not work. If you suck so bad as a human that your family, church, and
neighbors (the people that know you) don’t want to help you, the you probably need the type of feedback
living on the street will provide.

There is no easy answer. The powerful will always exploit the weak and the evil will try to suck up to them. The best system at least
gives individuals the chance to escape both groups and defend themselves if they must.
Koelbren  (OP)

User ID: 1907778
Spain
09/28/2011 05:32 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I also 100% agree that we need a truely FREE currency with out a parasitic middle man piggy backing on it (wall street/the banksters). That in itself would solve much of societies problems.Probably with in just a decade or so.

Perhaps if we liberated money from the vampires and the pigs we could see some posative things happen. What if money was a constitutionally protected social institution? What if no matter what, the state could not legally do anything to harm "the currency".

I would be for a free more open society without bankers and intrest and debt. That would be fantastic. what we have now is total slavery.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1127413


Freeing our currencies from interest would create a golden age, people would be better off and probably tensions would subside, there would be more will to help others, we could find ways to free ourselves from repetitive machine work and become inspired to dwell upon philosophical issues.

It's true that bankers and their debt slavery are the cancer of this world, they are the root of all evil. Life without them wouldn't be perfect but it would be a lot friggin better!.

But yeah I started a very popular thread a while ago about that subject and everyone overwhelmingly agreed, those fuckers must go.
 Quoting: Koelbren


Agreed!
We should start another thread to discuss this more in depth. Eliminating the bankers ability to charge intrest and and print money would easily solve a lot of today's issues.

The question is, what Kind of problems could we foresee in that, what steps could we take to avoid those problems and how do we printer this meme in an easier more easy to grasp manner?

I mean it's a pretty cut and dry solution but it's gotta be "sold" to people.


Liberate the money!!!! No interests!No fiat! No state or private control mechanisms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1127413


Thread: Banking - the Greatest Scam on Earth (Great concise presentation, must watch and share!)

Check that one.

I don't think we need to sell anything to the people, the problem is getting rid of the bankers. I think short of nuking them out of existence, those bastards will linger on forever.
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Koelbren  (OP)

User ID: 1907778
Spain
09/28/2011 05:33 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Nothing will work for an immoral people.

The system is not the problem, its us.

(Sorry to be so preachy but it is the truth)

Forcing people to be decent at gun point will not work. The wicked always seem to end up holding the guns.

Supporting the wicked will not work. If you suck so bad as a human that your family, church, and
neighbors (the people that know you) don’t want to help you, the you probably need the type of feedback
living on the street will provide.

There is no easy answer. The powerful will always exploit the weak and the evil will try to suck up to them. The best system at least
gives individuals the chance to escape both groups and defend themselves if they must.
 Quoting: AnonyMouse Howard


Interesting perspective, I mostly would agree.
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/28/2011 05:34 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Western liberal (in the classical sense) republican style democracy, with a middle eastern style currency system. Usury IS punishable by beheading over there. it should be the same over here.
AnonyMouse Howard

User ID: 2209573
United States
09/28/2011 05:35 AM

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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
One more point.

Technology has done more to free men then all the politicians and governments combined in all of history.
If you want to change the world, be a scientist.
melIssa J

User ID: 1497920
New Zealand
09/28/2011 05:37 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Don't fix was isn't broken.
Heal the world.. forget and forgive. x
Koelbren  (OP)

User ID: 1907778
Spain
09/28/2011 05:42 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I thought this thread was gonna be a big failure but I am glad I did it, I find very interesting to read what you folks think.

I find that the prospect of currency without interest is extremely popular, and it's funny how there's no one speaking about it anywhere in the MSM or politics nowadays (except maybe Ron Paul who wishes to get rid of the Fed but he never mentioned anything about this matter, someone should actually ask him).
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
anon
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09/28/2011 05:46 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
if it is about anything other than love,
it is doomed to failure.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1914802
Greece
09/28/2011 05:50 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Don't fix was isn't broken.
 Quoting: melIssa J


LOL, tell that to the people pulling their kids from the rubble of their house, bombed by the war machine.

tell that to the millions of animals living in deplorable conditions until they are ruthlessly slaughtered so some FAT STUPID USELESS FUCK can eat some of that and throw the rest away.

tell that to the millions of people killed, maimed, or otherwise hurt yearly by the Pharmaceutical Industry.

I suggest you start with some reading here: [link to whale.to]

THE FUCKED UP SHIT WE FIND OURSELVES IN RIGHT NOW CANNOT BE CALLED A "SYSTEM" OR EVEN A "SYSTEMIC FAILURE". IT ONLY CAN BE CALLED A "CHAOTIC FAILURE".

Now, do we need a better system? Some of us do - those with consciousness developed to a certain level.

But majority of us don't - they need the current system to keep destroying them and make them suffer -- as that's invariably the one single thing that can make their own consciousness evolve. Give them abundance and for the rest of their lives their will sit in front of a TV, feeling like the kings of animal kingdom and the universe. No, we still do need this fucked up system.

Maybe things will need to get really bad and the conscious ones will prepare and survive, and the sleepers will simply die off, but you can't kill the soul, so they will come back to learn, and they need the appropriate environment to do so.
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
09/28/2011 05:51 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Sovereign Collectives are the method of social organization that humanity is moving toward. The problem with the past is that the organizational structure (none of them) have been compatible with human nature. To overcome this, one must make a list of what brings us happiness and security and fit the model around that.

Capitalism is great because it allows for a wide range of freedom, but due to its construct, it is also open to abuse and infiltration. Communist states are very efficient and secure, but everyone must conform. Socialist states, no matter the degree, attempt to blend the two which has to this point ended up in excessive taxation, combined with a lack of freedom.

Sovereign Collectives would establish small and completely autonomous groups of people with a designated space of land under their complete control. The collective (about the size of a county) would join together to establish its own laws and rules under a miniature form of republic. There would be no higher authority pertaining to what happens within the collective than the rules of that collective. They would be free to form whatever living arrangements, society, money systems, working arrangements or social structures that fit the needs of its people.

People who no longer like the rules of the collective are free to attempt to change the opinions of the voters within the collective, or move to another collective that is more suitable for them. State bodies would be created for the sole purpose of facilitating trade between collectives and for infrastructure projects. National structures would serve the states in wider trade arrangements and for national defense purposes only. If all nations adopt a purely defensive posture, there would be no need for large standing armies and war would be a thing of the past. There could however be skirmishes between collectives, but history has shown this to be infrequent.

This is not a new idea, and people have lived this way for centuries before the history of world power consolidation began. The theory is that through decentralization, people can become more free without the over arching need for multiple levels of power structures and large decision making authorities that attempt to fit all individuals into the same box.

People are unique, and their governing structures need to be just as unique. Until we match these two needs, we will always be in a struggle between freedom and those who think that it is somehow their birthright to control the masses.

No individual has the right to own or control another, as long as common human rights are observed. We are all created with unalienable rights granted by our creator, and are all equal in his/her eyes. The attempt to deny this fact by some individuals, is the basis to all of our problems in modern society.

The funny thing is that this can all be done legally and without any bloodshed by forming sovereign collectives and filing the proper UCC documentation. This would essentially fire your government for a particular area and set up a "reservation type" area for your collective to call home. I am sure that current national governments would not like to see their revenues slip away, but if this process was done in mass, they would have no way to stem the tide.

This is the way that society will eventually move, it is just a matter of how long and what kind of struggle we will need to put ourselves though before we can get there.

peace
 Quoting: DexMichaels

Sounds like communism to me...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1350471


You sir, is ignorant!

If I remember correctly there was a similar system in IceLand, before the Chritianisation came. And there was no real king.

I guess if you want to have a non governmental system, but still be able to create consensus on different things the people would have to get together and decide on a representative. That represends their view aka defends their views in regional assemplies ... and so on.
Koelbren  (OP)

User ID: 1907778
Spain
09/28/2011 05:53 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Don't fix was isn't broken.
 Quoting: melIssa J


LOL, tell that to the people pulling their kids from the rubble of their house, bombed by the war machine.

tell that to the millions of animals living in deplorable conditions until they are ruthlessly slaughtered so some FAT STUPID USELESS FUCK can eat some of that and throw the rest away.

tell that to the millions of people killed, maimed, or otherwise hurt yearly by the Pharmaceutical Industry.

I suggest you start with some reading here: [link to whale.to]

THE FUCKED UP SHIT WE FIND OURSELVES IN RIGHT NOW CANNOT BE CALLED A "SYSTEM" OR EVEN A "SYSTEMIC FAILURE". IT ONLY CAN BE CALLED A "CHAOTIC FAILURE".

Now, do we need a better system? Some of us do - those with consciousness developed to a certain level.

But majority of us don't - they need the current system to keep destroying them and make them suffer -- as that's invariably the one single thing that can make their own consciousness evolve. Give them abundance and for the rest of their lives their will sit in front of a TV, feeling like the kings of animal kingdom and the universe. No, we still do need this fucked up system.

Maybe things will need to get really bad and the conscious ones will prepare and survive, and the sleepers will simply die off, but you can't kill the soul, so they will come back to learn, and they need the appropriate environment to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1914802


That was a very esoterically charged post, I thoroughly enjoyed it, thanks for chiming in.

hf
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1350471
United States
09/28/2011 05:55 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
One more point.

Technology has done more to free men then all the politicians and governments combined in all of history.
If you want to change the world, be a scientist.
 Quoting: AnonyMouse Howard


Science has made our world better?

I beg to differ. As a scientist myself, i have repeatedly seen every technological advancement ever devised used to control, exploit, kill and oppress the human race. Though their intentions may be positive, the results of any major technological advancement seldom are in the long run.

From the first time a monkey picked up a rock and threw it at another monkey, every such technological innovation has always lead to suffering, there is simply no exception. The human race was better off living like the native Americans did, only taking or wanting what they needed to be happy and healthy, and only developing that technology that was necessary to do so. We live in a prison of our own making.

You can't fart without someone knowing what you had for dinner any more, and science is responsible.

The smart scientist keeps his work to himself in this day of age, less it be used to dishonor his name.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 05:56 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 05:57 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Sovereign Collectives are the method of social organization that humanity is moving toward. The problem with the past is that the organizational structure (none of them) have been compatible with human nature. To overcome this, one must make a list of what brings us happiness and security and fit the model around that.

Capitalism is great because it allows for a wide range of freedom, but due to its construct, it is also open to abuse and infiltration. Communist states are very efficient and secure, but everyone must conform. Socialist states, no matter the degree, attempt to blend the two which has to this point ended up in excessive taxation, combined with a lack of freedom.

Sovereign Collectives would establish small and completely autonomous groups of people with a designated space of land under their complete control. The collective (about the size of a county) would join together to establish its own laws and rules under a miniature form of republic. There would be no higher authority pertaining to what happens within the collective than the rules of that collective. They would be free to form whatever living arrangements, society, money systems, working arrangements or social structures that fit the needs of its people.

People who no longer like the rules of the collective are free to attempt to change the opinions of the voters within the collective, or move to another collective that is more suitable for them. State bodies would be created for the sole purpose of facilitating trade between collectives and for infrastructure projects. National structures would serve the states in wider trade arrangements and for national defense purposes only. If all nations adopt a purely defensive posture, there would be no need for large standing armies and war would be a thing of the past. There could however be skirmishes between collectives, but history has shown this to be infrequent.

This is not a new idea, and people have lived this way for centuries before the history of world power consolidation began. The theory is that through decentralization, people can become more free without the over arching need for multiple levels of power structures and large decision making authorities that attempt to fit all individuals into the same box.

People are unique, and their governing structures need to be just as unique. Until we match these two needs, we will always be in a struggle between freedom and those who think that it is somehow their birthright to control the masses.

No individual has the right to own or control another, as long as common human rights are observed. We are all created with unalienable rights granted by our creator, and are all equal in his/her eyes. The attempt to deny this fact by some individuals, is the basis to all of our problems in modern society.

The funny thing is that this can all be done legally and without any bloodshed by forming sovereign collectives and filing the proper UCC documentation. This would essentially fire your government for a particular area and set up a "reservation type" area for your collective to call home. I am sure that current national governments would not like to see their revenues slip away, but if this process was done in mass, they would have no way to stem the tide.

This is the way that society will eventually move, it is just a matter of how long and what kind of struggle we will need to put ourselves though before we can get there.

peace
 Quoting: DexMichaels

Sounds like communism to me...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1350471


You sir, is ignorant!

If I remember correctly there was a similar system in IceLand, before the Chritianisation came. And there was no real king.

I guess if you want to have a non governmental system, but still be able to create consensus on different things the people would have to get together and decide on a representative. That represends their view aka defends their views in regional assemplies ... and so on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 983237


Collectives are a form of community communism, so fuck off.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 05:58 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2210707


yeah, and fuck both of them with a pointy stick and hang 'em from the nearest tree.
melIssa J

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09/28/2011 05:59 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I'm seroius, without the lol
Heal the world.. forget and forgive. x
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09/28/2011 06:02 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Don't fix was isn't broken.
 Quoting: melIssa J


LOL, tell that to the people pulling their kids from the rubble of their house, bombed by the war machine.

tell that to the millions of animals living in deplorable conditions until they are ruthlessly slaughtered so some FAT STUPID USELESS FUCK can eat some of that and throw the rest away.

tell that to the millions of people killed, maimed, or otherwise hurt yearly by the Pharmaceutical Industry.

I suggest you start with some reading here: [link to whale.to]

THE FUCKED UP SHIT WE FIND OURSELVES IN RIGHT NOW CANNOT BE CALLED A "SYSTEM" OR EVEN A "SYSTEMIC FAILURE". IT ONLY CAN BE CALLED A "CHAOTIC FAILURE".

Now, do we need a better system? Some of us do - those with consciousness developed to a certain level.

But majority of us don't - they need the current system to keep destroying them and make them suffer -- as that's invariably the one single thing that can make their own consciousness evolve. Give them abundance and for the rest of their lives their will sit in front of a TV, feeling like the kings of animal kingdom and the universe. No, we still do need this fucked up system.

Maybe things will need to get really bad and the conscious ones will prepare and survive, and the sleepers will simply die off, but you can't kill the soul, so they will come back to learn, and they need the appropriate environment to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1914802

I agree, there are some instances where I think we should feed people to animals instead of the other way around.

One of the major failings of a technological society is that it allows the least fit to reproduce , and they usually do in the most numbers. What you end up with is what we have now, a slave society where the slaves don't even know they're slaves because they're too fucking stupid to realize it.
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09/28/2011 06:07 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I'm seroius, without the lol
 Quoting: melIssa J


I assure you, so am I.
When there is a popular uprising to restore our government to a republic and force it to operate only within the constraints of it's original Constitutional mandate, I will be there. The Constitution may not be perfect, and it isn't but I assure you, it is better than what we have now which essentially a hidden nobility class that is feeding parasitically off of the people.

The Constitution set up a system where the government coined the money and was forbidden from the practice of usury, that would be a big step in the right direction. this is why the banksters have created the false meme through the media that people that support the Constitution are nutcases, marginalizing them as terrorists and malcontents, I guess the idea of restoring law terrifies them. IT SHOULD
Anonymous Coward
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Greece
09/28/2011 06:10 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I'm seroius, without the lol
 Quoting: melIssa J


wasn't meant against you. In fact you are right. Don't fix what's not broken.

I believe the current state of the (human) societal system is a direct reflection of the level of the evolution of (human) consciousness, globally. (Although because of the system dynamics, there are huge inequalities, globally, but how do we know the less advanced /or more suffering-needy/ souls are not being born at the worse places.)

I believe the system will change fluidly, and by those who control it, as we keep evolving as species.

Sudden revolutions or forced changes will only make things worse.
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Greece
09/28/2011 06:11 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Don't fix was isn't broken.
 Quoting: melIssa J


LOL, tell that to the people pulling their kids from the rubble of their house, bombed by the war machine.

tell that to the millions of animals living in deplorable conditions until they are ruthlessly slaughtered so some FAT STUPID USELESS FUCK can eat some of that and throw the rest away.

tell that to the millions of people killed, maimed, or otherwise hurt yearly by the Pharmaceutical Industry.

I suggest you start with some reading here: [link to whale.to]

THE FUCKED UP SHIT WE FIND OURSELVES IN RIGHT NOW CANNOT BE CALLED A "SYSTEM" OR EVEN A "SYSTEMIC FAILURE". IT ONLY CAN BE CALLED A "CHAOTIC FAILURE".

Now, do we need a better system? Some of us do - those with consciousness developed to a certain level.

But majority of us don't - they need the current system to keep destroying them and make them suffer -- as that's invariably the one single thing that can make their own consciousness evolve. Give them abundance and for the rest of their lives their will sit in front of a TV, feeling like the kings of animal kingdom and the universe. No, we still do need this fucked up system.

Maybe things will need to get really bad and the conscious ones will prepare and survive, and the sleepers will simply die off, but you can't kill the soul, so they will come back to learn, and they need the appropriate environment to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1914802


That was a very esoterically charged post, I thoroughly enjoyed it, thanks for chiming in.

hf
 Quoting: Koelbren


Thank you.

hf
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 06:12 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Don't fix was isn't broken.
 Quoting: melIssa J


LOL, tell that to the people pulling their kids from the rubble of their house, bombed by the war machine.

tell that to the millions of animals living in deplorable conditions until they are ruthlessly slaughtered so some FAT STUPID USELESS FUCK can eat some of that and throw the rest away.

tell that to the millions of people killed, maimed, or otherwise hurt yearly by the Pharmaceutical Industry.

I suggest you start with some reading here: [link to whale.to]

THE FUCKED UP SHIT WE FIND OURSELVES IN RIGHT NOW CANNOT BE CALLED A "SYSTEM" OR EVEN A "SYSTEMIC FAILURE". IT ONLY CAN BE CALLED A "CHAOTIC FAILURE".

Now, do we need a better system? Some of us do - those with consciousness developed to a certain level.

But majority of us don't - they need the current system to keep destroying them and make them suffer -- as that's invariably the one single thing that can make their own consciousness evolve. Give them abundance and for the rest of their lives their will sit in front of a TV, feeling like the kings of animal kingdom and the universe. No, we still do need this fucked up system.

Maybe things will need to get really bad and the conscious ones will prepare and survive, and the sleepers will simply die off, but you can't kill the soul, so they will come back to learn, and they need the appropriate environment to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1914802

I agree, there are some instances where I think we should feed people to animals instead of the other way around.

One of the major failings of a technological society is that it allows the least fit to reproduce , and they usually do in the most numbers. What you end up with is what we have now, a slave society where the slaves don't even know they're slaves because they're too fucking stupid to realize it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1350471


Very true.





GLP