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Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 02:41 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Our versions of capitalism, socialism, communism all "magically" come with central banking(by design). Central banking is what you must escape. Stop using money, and stop unchecked greed.
Thoreau

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09/28/2011 02:42 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
The Secret of Oz is a very good film by the way.
Thoreau

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09/28/2011 02:44 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Our versions of capitalism, socialism, communism all "magically" come with central banking(by design). Central banking is what you must escape. Stop using money, and stop unchecked greed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1218376


The thing is you need some medium for exchange that everyone can agree to and use to avoid the inefficiencies of barter.
Koelbren  (OP)

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09/28/2011 02:45 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Here is what I think. By the way I voted for FMC. I believe If we had a free market with almost no taxation and regulation and most importantly no debt based currency printed by private banks we would all be so prosperous that what system we have would be irrelevent because very very few people would want to change something that works so well for them. Then through advances in technology we could eliminate scarcity and menial/dangerous/hard labor type jobs and live in a world that is sort of free market capitalism with pockets of venus project and voluntary communes.
 Quoting: Thoreau


Good point.

That's a factor people don't take into account when bashing Ron paul's policies. They say "but without social programs how will we pay for our medicine?". They forget that by getting rid of the fed, liquidating the debt, bringing back industry and creating real wealth through a real monetary system that works for the people instead of private bankers and speculators, the people would actually have the money to pay for their own lives.

That was the goal of this whole thing, but people seem to have forgotten about it and have grown accostumed to being filthy poor and dependant on government welfare.
 Quoting: Koelbren


Great posts, +1 karma for you bro!
I used to be quite a hardcore anarcho-capitalist but watching films like "the money masters" and ,what is that other movie bill still did? Oh yes The Secret of Oz, Have made me believe that perhaps there should be a state to coordinate large " common good" projects that is funded by the printing of money by the state "spending into circulation" rather than borrowing from international bankers with all the citizens lives and property as collateral.
 Quoting: Thoreau

This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Koelbren  (OP)

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09/28/2011 02:46 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Our versions of capitalism, socialism, communism all "magically" come with central banking(by design). Central banking is what you must escape. Stop using money, and stop unchecked greed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1218376


We don't need to stop using money, we need to stop using debt based currencies.

Anyways monetary policy is just one aspect of the whole and the most agreeable one I'd say, most people want debt free money (even those who don't know about the whole issue). it's the banks who push for central banking and debt based currencies.

The problem comes with wealth redistriburion, regulations and basically one segment of the population pushing their rights and vision of things onto another.
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Thoreau

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09/28/2011 02:49 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Thx, I already got you for the vid. and five stars of course. I am going to book mark this thread and show some friends. You very succinctly and eloquently stated in your first posts many things I have tried to get others on board with.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 02:50 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Everything in life is bartering. Give and take. Y'all are so very, very close.
Koelbren  (OP)

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09/28/2011 02:52 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Thx, I already got you for the vid. and five stars of course. I am going to book mark this thread and show some friends. You very succinctly and eloquently stated in your first posts many things I have tried to get others on board with.
 Quoting: Thoreau


I tried to make my first post as impartial as I could, but I am glad I got something across with it.

wink

I am truly not convinced of anything TBH. Here where I live things are not bad, but then we couldn't say we are free in any way either. There's so many contradictions and idealism blinds reason. I am waiting for someone to show me something that just makes sense, Ron Paul almost does that for me, but not 100%.
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 02:52 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I don't think you understand politics at all, PAULTARD.

You toss off statements as if they were fact that are simply not true.
No more patience for you.

granny
Koelbren  (OP)

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09/28/2011 02:54 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Btw so far free market capitalism is the clear winner.

That's quite telling there, I guess regardless if FMC is not perfect, people just don't want anything to do with any of the others, and who can blame them.
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Koelbren  (OP)

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09/28/2011 02:54 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I don't think you understand politics at all, PAULTARD.

You toss off statements as if they were fact that are simply not true.
No more patience for you.

granny
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2187156


ROFL relax grandma, join the convo, throw your 2cents, don't be a bitch.
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Burt Gummer

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09/28/2011 02:58 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I don't think you understand politics at all, PAULTARD.

You toss off statements as if they were fact that are simply not true.
No more patience for you.

granny
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2187156


He's from Spain.....and look where they are economically.

Nuff said.
Daikirai

User ID: 1528322
Netherlands
09/28/2011 02:59 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
We need this!

[link to www.thevenusproject.com]



Capitalism doesn't work... too much predatory profit only crap.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2186627


As far as I see the Venus project falls into the global government category. As much that they can try to sell you an utopia, you would have to eventually force it onto the people who don't agree with it to make it work.
 Quoting: Koelbren


Thats BULLSHIT.
If you are not even open to this, you are not ready for change, thus why the hell open this topic?

And yes, Resource Based Economy works only in a world with truthfull, loving people.
Chi pecora si fa, il lupo se la mangia
Koelbren  (OP)

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09/28/2011 03:03 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
We need this!

[link to www.thevenusproject.com]



Capitalism doesn't work... too much predatory profit only crap.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2186627


As far as I see the Venus project falls into the global government category. As much that they can try to sell you an utopia, you would have to eventually force it onto the people who don't agree with it to make it work.
 Quoting: Koelbren


Thats BULLSHIT.
If you are not even open to this, you are not ready for change, thus why the hell open this topic?

And yes, Resource Based Economy works only in a world with truthfull, loving people.
 Quoting: Daikirai


You just made my argument, this world is not inhabited by ALL truthful, loving people, thus to make your system work you need to show me either how to magically turn everyone into truthful loving people or you have to kill the rest.

Neither way is viable/feasible.
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Koelbren  (OP)

User ID: 1907778
Spain
09/28/2011 03:04 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I don't think you understand politics at all, PAULTARD.

You toss off statements as if they were fact that are simply not true.
No more patience for you.

granny
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2187156


He's from Spain.....and look where they are economically.

Nuff said.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Yeah because I represent my whole country, great argument

tard
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 03:43 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Framing money vs barter is an ancient 'trick' that fools the simple minded.

Money is a very old outdated tech, and there are a thousand ideas that are better.

For instance make a point system instead, if you produce what others actually need(math guys forecast the numbers) you get points, then trade points with your thumb or card for goods. If you want a normal phone, go to a nearby factory and work for a couple of hours, or take care of some kids, then you get the points. If you want your phone to have fucking unicorns on it with rainbows coming out of their asses, then upload the design online, and work for one more hour - easy, now you're still special :).

Limit everyone's account, so no person can cheat others and get like 1000 cars they don't use, while others starve. There's a billion other ways to do it.
Burt Gummer

User ID: 2004886
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09/28/2011 03:47 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I don't think you understand politics at all, PAULTARD.

You toss off statements as if they were fact that are simply not true.
No more patience for you.

granny
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2187156


He's from Spain.....and look where they are economically.

Nuff said.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Yeah because I represent my whole country, great argument

tard
 Quoting: Koelbren


No....that's not the issue.
Your political perspective is skewed due to your country, it's media, politicians...etc......all more Socialist than the USA ever was....or will be.
UNE_SAISON_EN_ENFER

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09/28/2011 04:02 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
When do we, people get it ? It's not the system which is important but who rules it. And unless the humanity dont get rid of these Psychophats in Power nothing will change even if you find the best system of the universe.

And when i say psychophats i mean it, it's not just a metaphoric term to describe the bad guys. And if they control the system (like they do for thousands of years) the ssytem gets pathologic and so the people in that system (like we are all now).
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
sigh

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09/28/2011 04:27 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. ~ Lucy Parsons

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
sigh

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09/28/2011 04:28 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
When do we, people get it ? It's not the system which is important but who rules it. And unless the humanity dont get rid of these Psychophats in Power nothing will change even if you find the best system of the universe.

And when i say psychophats i mean it, it's not just a metaphoric term to describe the bad guys. And if they control the system (like they do for thousands of years) the ssytem gets pathologic and so the people in that system (like we are all now).
 Quoting: UNE_SAISON_EN_ENFER



Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Last Edited by sigh on 09/28/2011 04:28 AM
DexMichaels

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09/28/2011 04:28 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Sovereign Collectives are the method of social organization that humanity is moving toward. The problem with the past is that the organizational structure (none of them) have been compatible with human nature. To overcome this, one must make a list of what brings us happiness and security and fit the model around that.

Capitalism is great because it allows for a wide range of freedom, but due to its construct, it is also open to abuse and infiltration. Communist states are very efficient and secure, but everyone must conform. Socialist states, no matter the degree, attempt to blend the two which has to this point ended up in excessive taxation, combined with a lack of freedom.

Sovereign Collectives would establish small and completely autonomous groups of people with a designated space of land under their complete control. The collective (about the size of a county) would join together to establish its own laws and rules under a miniature form of republic. There would be no higher authority pertaining to what happens within the collective than the rules of that collective. They would be free to form whatever living arrangements, society, money systems, working arrangements or social structures that fit the needs of its people.

People who no longer like the rules of the collective are free to attempt to change the opinions of the voters within the collective, or move to another collective that is more suitable for them. State bodies would be created for the sole purpose of facilitating trade between collectives and for infrastructure projects. National structures would serve the states in wider trade arrangements and for national defense purposes only. If all nations adopt a purely defensive posture, there would be no need for large standing armies and war would be a thing of the past. There could however be skirmishes between collectives, but history has shown this to be infrequent.

This is not a new idea, and people have lived this way for centuries before the history of world power consolidation began. The theory is that through decentralization, people can become more free without the over arching need for multiple levels of power structures and large decision making authorities that attempt to fit all individuals into the same box.

People are unique, and their governing structures need to be just as unique. Until we match these two needs, we will always be in a struggle between freedom and those who think that it is somehow their birthright to control the masses.

No individual has the right to own or control another, as long as common human rights are observed. We are all created with unalienable rights granted by our creator, and are all equal in his/her eyes. The attempt to deny this fact by some individuals, is the basis to all of our problems in modern society.

The funny thing is that this can all be done legally and without any bloodshed by forming sovereign collectives and filing the proper UCC documentation. This would essentially fire your government for a particular area and set up a "reservation type" area for your collective to call home. I am sure that current national governments would not like to see their revenues slip away, but if this process was done in mass, they would have no way to stem the tide.

This is the way that society will eventually move, it is just a matter of how long and what kind of struggle we will need to put ourselves though before we can get there.

peace
Dex
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 04:33 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
The idea of money itself is not neccessarilly inherently flawed as some here have insinuated. It streamlines the economic environment making trading easier by eliminating the need to find a person who has what you want and is willing to trade it for what you produce.

In the 1800's and before in the united states, most communities were completely self sufficient and almost everything that was used was also produced there within the community, but obviously that has radically changed.

The native Americans had a form of money called in the English vernacular "wampum', it was more or less a belt made of bead work.

This is why native americans valued beads, because they could literally make money out of them to trade with each other and even white traders in many instances. What gave the money value was the time it took to make it, and the material that went into making it. It actually had a value to them as art and craft work, and because of the cost and difficulty in obtaining the materials. A REAL CURRENCY MUST HAVE THESE SAME INTRINSIC QUALITIES OF VALUE.

So to be the solution to the problem is simple, money must have a real, fixed value that cannot be manipulated. Private institutions that loan money at interest could NOT use a system of fractional reserve banking, they would have to have actual assets to loan in the first place, and not a fluid currency that can be made to be worth whatever they decide. The current system is not unlike legalized counterfeiting.



As you know , in our not so distant past history, our government and the governments of many countries minted coins made from precious metals, the metals themselves gave the money value.

Of course the central bankers did away with this system because the currencies value could not be manipulated simply by flooding or withholding money from entering the economy, the so called hidden tax as Ron Paul calls it.

A FRN no matter the face value is worth no more than 2 cents. It is simply a promise to pay, a promise that is not kept since it's value is continuously decreasing. An interesting point to make here is that back when gold and silver were going through the roof, I pointed out to the metaltards that an ounce of gold has always bought a Winchester model 1894 rifle throughout it's history,because the manufacturer originally marketed the rifles for 20 dollars, and at the time 20 dollars was enumerated by a coin made from an ounce of gold.

..that is until the gold and silver bubbles when an ounce could buy three rifles. It is easy to see that an ounce of gold has not actually increased in value at all, it is the perception of that falsehood that creates demand for it, that coupled with a manipulation of the confidence in the fiat dollar..


Many have correctly pointed out that there is not enough gold and silver in the world to create a real currency, so this system is unworkable in a world economy that has grown so large that there isn't enough precious metal in the world to make enough coins to make a functional economy. They say we MUST have transactions that don't actually transfer anything of wealth, and I say to that HORSESHIT.

Coins can be made from anything of intrinsic value; copper, silver, gold platinum, even porcelain. The value of the materials and the difficulty in manufacturing the coins should give them real value that does not change.

Now, as for the international bankers running this massive scam, they should be punished as the criminals and cretins they are, they have created a system in which the people are simply slaves and they are the masters. They have started wars, killed billions of people, and led us to a situation where the world is on the brink of total economic collapse and probably World war 3. There has to be something better than them and if we were smart we would hang them tonight.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 04:35 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
We should find a new alternative (explain your position)


My Position:

The greatest flaw in the current model is the measure of success called "Growth".

Put Simply: Thanks to this catastrophic goal, We have out-"Grown" both our habitat and our ruling families tactics for control.

Both the population and the system are now beyond reigning in with the classic approaches of "feast then famine".

The feast is over and thanks to greed, Growth, and overpopulation, all that will remain is famine. VOLUNTARY population reduction by the altering of our reproductive and land development practices.

One inherent catalyst is that countries currently reward people to breed.

We need to incentive people, particularly the drug-addicted, un-educated and nomadic or migratory people to NOT conceive human life when all logic and self-responsibility suggests otherwise.

Put frankly, we need to enter into voluntary business negotiations (contracts, grants, or cash) with all parasitic pockets of society in exchange for their fertility.

Example: there are needle exchanges (for heroin addicts) that act as a go between with clinics that will award addicts a one-time cash settlement (with which they are free to go and score smack) in exchange for having their tubes tied.

Lighter criminal sentencing for those who agree to surgical sterilization.

I also propose revocable college grants (tuition, room and board) for those who hold off on conceiving until after graduation. Get pregnant? Lose that subsidy and due back in full, at interest asap.

We must stop rewarding people for migration and reproduction with funds that did not exist until the need produced itself for the only sake of fabricating a need for more funds. They should only be rewarded by society by not burdening anybody at all, the system, their neighbors, life, and the planet.

The greatest societies should not be measured by their tax-paying or, consuming or spending power but by their sustainability might.

Every culture, language, history, and legacy should be preserved where they are and not blended into the oblivion of the multicultural failure of an experiment.

If through irresponsible breeding practices you strain or outgrow your own environment, then your culture should contract and not be prevented from doing so with U.N. intervention.

Cultures with the most premature instances of fertility should be labeled "at risk" and treated as such with an urgency in reproductive abatement.

All of this should be voluntary. Those who violate this arrangement with one another and all life on the planet should be left to wallow, unassisted, in their poverty, and high mortality rate.

Before you label this as heartless or draconian, don't forget the alternative: If we don't depopulate ourselves...

someone else is about to.
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 04:35 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Sovereign Collectives are the method of social organization that humanity is moving toward. The problem with the past is that the organizational structure (none of them) have been compatible with human nature. To overcome this, one must make a list of what brings us happiness and security and fit the model around that.

Capitalism is great because it allows for a wide range of freedom, but due to its construct, it is also open to abuse and infiltration. Communist states are very efficient and secure, but everyone must conform. Socialist states, no matter the degree, attempt to blend the two which has to this point ended up in excessive taxation, combined with a lack of freedom.

Sovereign Collectives would establish small and completely autonomous groups of people with a designated space of land under their complete control. The collective (about the size of a county) would join together to establish its own laws and rules under a miniature form of republic. There would be no higher authority pertaining to what happens within the collective than the rules of that collective. They would be free to form whatever living arrangements, society, money systems, working arrangements or social structures that fit the needs of its people.

People who no longer like the rules of the collective are free to attempt to change the opinions of the voters within the collective, or move to another collective that is more suitable for them. State bodies would be created for the sole purpose of facilitating trade between collectives and for infrastructure projects. National structures would serve the states in wider trade arrangements and for national defense purposes only. If all nations adopt a purely defensive posture, there would be no need for large standing armies and war would be a thing of the past. There could however be skirmishes between collectives, but history has shown this to be infrequent.

This is not a new idea, and people have lived this way for centuries before the history of world power consolidation began. The theory is that through decentralization, people can become more free without the over arching need for multiple levels of power structures and large decision making authorities that attempt to fit all individuals into the same box.

People are unique, and their governing structures need to be just as unique. Until we match these two needs, we will always be in a struggle between freedom and those who think that it is somehow their birthright to control the masses.

No individual has the right to own or control another, as long as common human rights are observed. We are all created with unalienable rights granted by our creator, and are all equal in his/her eyes. The attempt to deny this fact by some individuals, is the basis to all of our problems in modern society.

The funny thing is that this can all be done legally and without any bloodshed by forming sovereign collectives and filing the proper UCC documentation. This would essentially fire your government for a particular area and set up a "reservation type" area for your collective to call home. I am sure that current national governments would not like to see their revenues slip away, but if this process was done in mass, they would have no way to stem the tide.

This is the way that society will eventually move, it is just a matter of how long and what kind of struggle we will need to put ourselves though before we can get there.

peace
 Quoting: DexMichaels

Sounds like communism to me...
John Connor

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09/28/2011 04:39 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
gr8 ?

what works? i got something you need..why should i give it to you? because you need it! How should we do this? Do you have something I need? NO? Maybe? idk..what if i don't need it ...then you don't get what you need? hmmm suspect for sure..let my people get back to your people and we can see if this worx!

wait..if you don't get what i have you will die? oh no..how sad...maybe well idk i still ..whoops you're dead? i am sorry..next!

think bout that b4 you decide a system!
John Connor
Burt Gummer

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09/28/2011 04:43 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
The native Americans had a form of money called in the English vernacular "wampum', it was more or less a belt made of bead work.

This is why native americans valued beads, because they could literally make money out of them to trade with each other and even white traders in many instances. What gave the money value was the time it took to make it, and the material that went into making it. It actually had a value to them as art and craft work, and because of the cost and difficulty in obtaining the materials. A REAL CURRENCY MUST HAVE THESE SAME INTRINSIC QUALITIES OF VALUE.
...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1350471


...and therein lies the problem.

You have FIAT/FRACTIONAL currency based on "bank to bank IOU's"...and that is how MORE money is created by it being loaned out again and again....over and over.

If you did not have this ability....the economy would not be the powerhouse it is. (used to be anyway)
You would not have capital in the amounts necessary to finance many projects. The physical money would not be there to be loaned out.

SO....
The question then is.....who do you get the best of both worlds...but leave the constant bubbles for FIAT/FRACTIONAL RESERVE LENDING behind?

1dunno1

Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 09/28/2011 04:45 AM
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 04:51 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
I like the Resource Based Economy from Zeitgeist II

Zeitgeist II: The Return of Zeitgeist
Anonymous Coward
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09/28/2011 04:59 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
What if we looked at it from a biological stance?

Maybe we need diverse economic and social systems in order to adapt to particular environmental situations? It used to be that social and political systems arrose because of environment. Famines, wars, natural disasters couple with tribalistic instict.....What are the main factors now?

When we take into account the diverse nature of group psychology, and I mean over generations, economic cycles and environmental and technological factors, we'd see that these systems cycle in and out of implementation. Maybe they are a natural rhythmic pattern in human development? From Freedom to tyranny. You could almost look at it as a social organism inhaling and exhaling.

I think until we establish how to look at the society as one organism,and learn to see society in generational terms, we'll never figure out how to manage our societies properly.

There just has to be a balance in whatever system is imimented.
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09/28/2011 05:03 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
Koelbren  (OP)

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09/28/2011 05:05 AM
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Re: Political/economic systems brainstorm thread: Are we in need of a *new* system or should we stick with the old ones?
The native Americans had a form of money called in the English vernacular "wampum', it was more or less a belt made of bead work.

This is why native americans valued beads, because they could literally make money out of them to trade with each other and even white traders in many instances. What gave the money value was the time it took to make it, and the material that went into making it. It actually had a value to them as art and craft work, and because of the cost and difficulty in obtaining the materials. A REAL CURRENCY MUST HAVE THESE SAME INTRINSIC QUALITIES OF VALUE.
...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1350471


...and therein lies the problem.

You have FIAT/FRACTIONAL currency based on "bank to bank IOU's"...and that is how MORE money is created by it being loaned out again and again....over and over.

If you did not have this ability....the economy would not be the powerhouse it is. (used to be anyway)
You would not have capital in the amounts necessary to finance many projects. The physical money would not be there to be loaned out.

SO....
The question then is.....who do you get the best of both worlds...but leave the constant bubbles for FIAT/FRACTIONAL RESERVE LENDING behind?

1dunno1
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Some form of agency that estimates the size and needs of the economy and prints the amount of currency needed for it's proper functioning, FREE OF INTEREST? I'd guess that was what the American congress was suppossed to do in the first place wasnt it?
This is the fate of man. He must strive for that which he cannot attain. He must believe in that which he cannot prove. He must seek that which he cannot find. He must travel a road without knowing his destination. Only thus can the purpose of life be fulfilled.

For I tell you, God will not do things you are too apathetic to do for yourselves.





GLP