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How did Jesus' death wash away our sins? | |
Not of this World
 User ID: 1472787  United States07/28/2011 08:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you seek with a true heart, you will find the truth. Otherwise.. Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed." John 6:27-58 You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. -James 4:4 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. -Galatians 6:7 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. -Colossians 2:8 Rev 13:9-10 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; (Betraying your family and friends) he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. (Guns!) Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1485849  Canada07/28/2011 08:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God used to be quite happy with animal sacrifices. He used to content himself smelling the burned flesh, but like all psychos, he graduated to human sacrifice. First he had people just cut bits of their bodies off, but I guess that was not enough, so he moved in to full blown slaughter and cruel death like cruxifixion. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 498151 United States07/28/2011 08:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I assure you, I know exactly what you are saying. I have heard the buzzwords more than I can count. I understand what happened according to the doctrine. But I don't understand how one begot the other. How does his death, in a real, logical explanation, actually cause God to forgive my sins? I hope you understand the question I am asking. I am trying to piece together exactly what happens at the moment of Jesus' death that just flips some spiritual switch in the world and now sins are actually things that you can get rid off. Quoting: ScrodiddlesIt is a mystery. The one act spans the ages. It moves both forward and backward in time. Just know that the justice of God is satisfied. Former disobedience (before he died and rose)was tolerated because of what he was to do. Lives are changed now and future disobedience is forgiven (with true repentance) because of what was done. |
| Scrodiddles
(OP) User ID: 1122076 United States07/28/2011 08:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God is both righteous and He is just. We all have sin, which requires justice (in the same way that heinous crimes have a consequence and punishment...a judge in court would not be serving justice if he were not to sentence a crime that was committed...justice would not be served, and he would be a corrupt and immoral judge). God is not unjust or immoral. God is Just. BUT God is also righteous and loving, so the payment of sin, which is death, was taken by Christ. Christ received death not just physically, but spiritually. In the moment that Christ was on the Cross, the spiritual wrath of God was placed on Christ. He experienced the agony of God's wrath for the sins committed by man. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394404God Himself took the punishment that is required for justice to be served, while simultaneously committing the most loving and self-sacrificial act imaginable. Christ lived a perfect and sinless life, what we are incapable of doing, and was completely blameless...and yet had the sins of man imputed upon Him, while His righteous was imputed on us. The balance was then paid. Once imputed with His righteousness, we are now seen as blameless before God. His sinlessness, through His act of atonement, was transferred to us, it is credited to our account because the payment was made for justice to be served. This does not give us a license to sin, or to continue doing what we are doing scott-free....once you realize the magnitude of the act performed on our behalf, you will no longer want to sin, and will respond with praise and gratitude at the realization of your redemption, and how undeserving you are of it...and how merciful and sacrificial it was for Him to pay the price for you when He didn't have to, for no other reason than out of love for His own children. Many parents would take a sacrifice for their children...and what God did is infinitely greater. He took the punishment for all the sins of man. Yes, but, as I have said, I am well aware of everything you just said. I have read the same book many times. It is spelled out very clearly in that book but, when it comes to actually explaining what changed, there is no answer. There are just metaphors of his blood and how clean we are now. But in terms of actually saying "Jesus died and his soul left his body with such force that it created a void so intense that all of the energy vibrating at the same frequency was sucked in, inescapably. The only energy that matches the void's vibration is Sin. Hence we are all washed of our sins. I understand that explanation is lofty and laughable, but to be honest, it is a better attempt than the Bible ever made. I am in search of Truth, but still emptying my cup. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1194370 United States07/28/2011 08:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is a mystery. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 498151The one act spans the ages. It moves both forward and backward in time. God has told us the ending from the beginning. God made a simple law in the garden. Of any fruit of the tree they (Adam and Eve) could eat, but of one tree they could not eat. Eve was tempted to engage in spiritual fornication with satan. Adam was not tempted but, in his love for his wife, he fell with Eve and (because of the law) they were promised death (spiritual). So he paid the price for his love. His wife. He paid that price to free her from the law and penalty of death (spiritual). He gave his life to save and to free her from the penalty. Christ is [a type of] Adam and his spiritual bride is [a type of] Eve. He died to pay the penalty in the garden. peace, |
| Needles Eye
User ID: 1480101 United States07/28/2011 08:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God used to be quite happy with animal sacrifices. He used to content himself smelling the burned flesh, but like all psychos, he graduated to human sacrifice. First he had people just cut bits of their bodies off, but I guess that was not enough, so he moved in to full blown slaughter and cruel death like cruxifixion. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849If you do not accept the sacrifice that God Himself made for mankind, then you will die in your sins, and be required to pay to the uttermost. I pray that God grants your wicked soul the light of His redemption in Jesus Christ. The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1394404 United States07/28/2011 08:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God is both righteous and He is just. We all have sin, which requires justice (in the same way that heinous crimes have a consequence and punishment...a judge in court would not be serving justice if he were not to sentence a crime that was committed...justice would not be served, and he would be a corrupt and immoral judge). God is not unjust or immoral. God is Just. BUT God is also righteous and loving, so the payment of sin, which is death, was taken by Christ. Christ received death not just physically, but spiritually. In the moment that Christ was on the Cross, the spiritual wrath of God was placed on Christ. He experienced the agony of God's wrath for the sins committed by man. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394404God Himself took the punishment that is required for justice to be served, while simultaneously committing the most loving and self-sacrificial act imaginable. Christ lived a perfect and sinless life, what we are incapable of doing, and was completely blameless...and yet had the sins of man imputed upon Him, while His righteous was imputed on us. The balance was then paid. Once imputed with His righteousness, we are now seen as blameless before God. His sinlessness, through His act of atonement, was transferred to us, it is credited to our account because the payment was made for justice to be served. This does not give us a license to sin, or to continue doing what we are doing scott-free....once you realize the magnitude of the act performed on our behalf, you will no longer want to sin, and will respond with praise and gratitude at the realization of your redemption, and how undeserving you are of it...and how merciful and sacrificial it was for Him to pay the price for you when He didn't have to, for no other reason than out of love for His own children. Many parents would take a sacrifice for their children...and what God did is infinitely greater. He took the punishment for all the sins of man. Amen Brother!! Sister  ;) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1486641 United States07/28/2011 08:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am actually being sincere here. I was raised in a Southern Babtist home and have read the bible a fair share of times, but I am at a total loss when it comes to understanding how Jesus dying on the cross translates into me being forgiven for my "sins". Quoting: ScrodiddlesAnd please don't just post scripture that just states it matter-of-factly as if I should ignore that we live in a world where things have to correlate. So they torture him, place him on a cross, and then wait for him to die. He passes away, is reborn and then ascends to heaven. Now I get forgiven if I have impatient thoughts? How does that work? Did he die, go to heaven and flip on a breaker switch, resurrect on earth to check if it worked and then just strolled on back to heaven? What happened during his death that made our sins forgivable? It's like a father bursting through the door and telling his son that cursing is now allowed in the house because he hit a deer on the way home. How in the world is it connected? Well, you know how one can be a better judge of things if thye experience things themselves? It's like that. Jesus, a man who basically is God, can closely "appreciate" the human condition and idiosyncrasies and identify them well enough so that he can remove them. He's more surgeon than judge, cutting away the guilt and shame each person has repressed, hidden and denied over the years to become hypocrites. But as he cuts away it's often thought of like washing away, and this is done on judgement day, so he's not thought of as a surgeon. But, being that he was once a human being makes him better able to spot and cut out what people ignore. See, now this answer is the closest thing to rational I have heard yet. The idea that he came here to basically understand our condition actually sits better in a realm of spiritual logic then the "His blood is your gateway" ideology. But, the last part of your statement lends to the idea that Jesus was training to become the ultimate judge of our sins. I have read the bible enough to know that he made absolutely no indication that he was here for that. Jesus is the Word of God, the third person of the Godhead. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Before the world was even created the plan of Salvation was in place. There's one thing God can never be - Surprised. The second person (the Word) who created all things, knew man would fall before He created him. He would be the Savior, who would come into the world to pay the price of man's rebellion, which is death. All this He foreknew. Why did He choose such a brutal death? Look at the cross. Nothing in the history of man ever has or ever will better contrast the love of God, against the wickedness of man. And in spite of our wickedness, God loves us. The blood He poured out was the Divine Sacrifice that allowed Divine Justice to be met. Jesus death is all about reconciling man to God. If you believe Jesus is who He said He is, and accept that He died in YOUR PLACE, turn from sin, and follow Him, then you have become a child of the Living God, heir to salvation, redeemed to live eternally with all the saints and holy angels, and God Himself in bliss, joy, and love. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1454000 United States07/28/2011 08:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God is both righteous and He is just. We all have sin, which requires justice (in the same way that heinous crimes have a consequence and punishment...a judge in court would not be serving justice if he were not to sentence a crime that was committed...justice would not be served, and he would be a corrupt and immoral judge). God is not unjust or immoral. God is Just. BUT God is also righteous and loving, so the payment of sin, which is death, was taken by Christ. Christ received death not just physically, but spiritually. In the moment that Christ was on the Cross, the spiritual wrath of God was placed on Christ. He experienced the agony of God's wrath for the sins committed by man. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394404God Himself took the punishment that is required for justice to be served, while simultaneously committing the most loving and self-sacrificial act imaginable. Christ lived a perfect and sinless life, what we are incapable of doing, and was completely blameless...and yet had the sins of man imputed upon Him, while His righteous was imputed on us. The balance was then paid. Once imputed with His righteousness, we are now seen as blameless before God. His sinlessness, through His act of atonement, was transferred to us, it is credited to our account because the payment was made for justice to be served. This does not give us a license to sin, or to continue doing what we are doing scott-free....once you realize the magnitude of the act performed on our behalf, you will no longer want to sin, and will respond with praise and gratitude at the realization of your redemption, and how undeserving you are of it...and how merciful and sacrificial it was for Him to pay the price for you when He didn't have to, for no other reason than out of love for His own children. Many parents would take a sacrifice for their children...and what God did is infinitely greater. He took the punishment for all the sins of man. Yes, but, as I have said, I am well aware of everything you just said. I have read the same book many times. It is spelled out very clearly in that book but, when it comes to actually explaining what changed, there is no answer. There are just metaphors of his blood and how clean we are now. But in terms of actually saying "Jesus died and his soul left his body with such force that it created a void so intense that all of the energy vibrating at the same frequency was sucked in, inescapably. The only energy that matches the void's vibration is Sin. Hence we are all washed of our sins. I understand that explanation is lofty and laughable, but to be honest, it is a better attempt than the Bible ever made. I can see you're all still trying to rationalize the theoretical "Mechanics of Forgiveness". We can go round and round about this, but Jesus didn't come to die for our sins. So if you do figure out the physics of forgiveness, it belies the original premise... (the latter) |
| Scrodiddles
(OP) User ID: 1122076 United States07/28/2011 08:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Book of Judas? Thats not part of the King James bible. Satan has many ways of convincing you and helping you to adhere to philosophy and "extra" books of the bible. Quoting: Not of this WorldIf you seek with a true heart, you will find the truth. Otherwise.. Please don't throw the baby our with the bath water. I mentioned the Gospal of Judas out of passing. It is irrelevant to my original question. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not the type to find one thing you suspect in error and use it to dismiss everything else that may precede it. That is a very derailing argument method. Pretend I didn't mention any other piece of literature and please do me the honor of answering my question. I am really entertaining all explanations here. I happen to love what Jesus taught and the only thing that keeps me out of church is my ignorance towards the whole "Died for our sins" thing. I am in search of Truth, but still emptying my cup. |
| Daniel's Seventieth Seven User ID: 1071051 United States07/28/2011 08:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Good question OP... Deep question. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370Perhaps his death released his seed. In a spiritual sense. Consider the following passage... John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [link to godsview.com] Bump... 23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. :) |
| Celia D.
User ID: 1473141 United States07/28/2011 08:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I assure you, I know exactly what you are saying. I have heard the buzzwords more than I can count. I understand what happened according to the doctrine. But I don't understand how one begot the other. How does his death, in a real, logical explanation, actually cause God to forgive my sins? I hope you understand the question I am asking. I am trying to piece together exactly what happens at the moment of Jesus' death that just flips some spiritual switch in the world and now sins are actually things that you can get rid off. Quoting: ScrodiddlesIt is a mystery. The one act spans the ages. It moves both forward and backward in time. Just know that the justice of God is satisfied. Former disobedience (before he died and rose)was tolerated because of what he was to do. Lives are changed now and future disobedience is forgiven (with true repentance) because of what was done. Are cave men included in this act? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1240056 United States07/28/2011 08:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Scrodiddles
(OP) User ID: 1122076 United States07/28/2011 08:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I assure you, I know exactly what you are saying. I have heard the buzzwords more than I can count. I understand what happened according to the doctrine. But I don't understand how one begot the other. How does his death, in a real, logical explanation, actually cause God to forgive my sins? I hope you understand the question I am asking. I am trying to piece together exactly what happens at the moment of Jesus' death that just flips some spiritual switch in the world and now sins are actually things that you can get rid off. Quoting: ScrodiddlesIt is a mystery. The one act spans the ages. It moves both forward and backward in time. Just know that the justice of God is satisfied. Former disobedience (before he died and rose)was tolerated because of what he was to do. Lives are changed now and future disobedience is forgiven (with true repentance) because of what was done. You will forgive me when I say that my experience has lead me to never "Just Know" something. It is not wise to take something so profound and just run with it. Especially when those that espouse it as the truth can't actually explain it. I never buy a product that doesn't have instructions and, as far as I can tell, the bible is lacking instructions on a very large part of it's teachings. I am in search of Truth, but still emptying my cup. |
| Needles Eye
User ID: 1480101 United States07/28/2011 08:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 498151 United States07/28/2011 08:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Scrodiddles
(OP) User ID: 1122076 United States07/28/2011 08:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God used to be quite happy with animal sacrifices. He used to content himself smelling the burned flesh, but like all psychos, he graduated to human sacrifice. First he had people just cut bits of their bodies off, but I guess that was not enough, so he moved in to full blown slaughter and cruel death like cruxifixion. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849If you do not accept the sacrifice that God Himself made for mankind, then you will die in your sins, and be required to pay to the uttermost. I pray that God grants your wicked soul the light of His redemption in Jesus Christ. I am just quoting this so that you have a chance to re-read it. There is nothing godly in using prayer as a weapon. And those words were not spoken with true hope that the person you wrote them too will have redemption. They were daggers. I am in search of Truth, but still emptying my cup. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1457831 United States07/28/2011 08:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God is both righteous and He is just. We all have sin, which requires justice (in the same way that heinous crimes have a consequence and punishment...a judge in court would not be serving justice if he were not to sentence a crime that was committed...justice would not be served, and he would be a corrupt and immoral judge). God is not unjust or immoral. God is Just. BUT God is also righteous and loving, so the payment of sin, which is death, was taken by Christ. Christ received death not just physically, but spiritually. In the moment that Christ was on the Cross, the spiritual wrath of God was placed on Christ. He experienced the agony of God's wrath for the sins committed by man. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1394404God Himself took the punishment that is required for justice to be served, while simultaneously committing the most loving and self-sacrificial act imaginable. Christ lived a perfect and sinless life, what we are incapable of doing, and was completely blameless...and yet had the sins of man imputed upon Him, while His righteous was imputed on us. The balance was then paid. Once imputed with His righteousness, we are now seen as blameless before God. His sinlessness, through His act of atonement, was transferred to us, it is credited to our account because the payment was made for justice to be served. This does not give us a license to sin, or to continue doing what we are doing scott-free....once you realize the magnitude of the act performed on our behalf, you will no longer want to sin, and will respond with praise and gratitude at the realization of your redemption, and how undeserving you are of it...and how merciful and sacrificial it was for Him to pay the price for you when He didn't have to, for no other reason than out of love for His own children. Many parents would take a sacrifice for their children...and what God did is infinitely greater. He took the punishment for all the sins of man. Yes, but, as I have said, I am well aware of everything you just said. I have read the same book many times. It is spelled out very clearly in that book but, when it comes to actually explaining what changed, there is no answer. There are just metaphors of his blood and how clean we are now. But in terms of actually saying "Jesus died and his soul left his body with such force that it created a void so intense that all of the energy vibrating at the same frequency was sucked in, inescapably. The only energy that matches the void's vibration is Sin. Hence we are all washed of our sins. I understand that explanation is lofty and laughable, but to be honest, it is a better attempt than the Bible ever made. God became a man and conquered satan so that anyone who really wants can be set free from satans grasp. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1454000 United States07/28/2011 08:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Needles Eye
User ID: 1480101 United States07/28/2011 08:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God used to be quite happy with animal sacrifices. He used to content himself smelling the burned flesh, but like all psychos, he graduated to human sacrifice. First he had people just cut bits of their bodies off, but I guess that was not enough, so he moved in to full blown slaughter and cruel death like cruxifixion. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849If you do not accept the sacrifice that God Himself made for mankind, then you will die in your sins, and be required to pay to the uttermost. I pray that God grants your wicked soul the light of His redemption in Jesus Christ. I am just quoting this so that you have a chance to re-read it. There is nothing godly in using prayer as a weapon. And those words were not spoken with true hope that the person you wrote them too will have redemption. They were daggers. I truly prayed for the individual that posted it. What I spoke was the truth, all who do not accept the sacrifce of Jesus Christ will be damned, that's the truth, and it would be unloving to say anything otherwise. Edited to add: I am also a wicked soul apart from Jesus Christ, and His righteous sacrifice. Last Edited by Needles Eye on 07/28/2011 08:20 PM The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1454000 United States07/28/2011 08:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Washing away of sins" ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 498151An old expression. Cleansing. To be made pure. Coming to teach Ascension Mechanics was his way to "wash away our sins". He didn't do it, but it would be done by OUR doing; learning the teachings of the Kryst. The only time I'll ever agree with the line; as an expression only. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 498151 United States07/28/2011 08:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You will forgive me when I say that my experience has lead me to never "Just Know" something. It is not wise to take something so profound and just run with it. Especially when those that espouse it as the truth can't actually explain it. I never buy a product that doesn't have instructions and, as far as I can tell, the bible is lacking instructions on a very large part of it's teachings. Quoting: ScrodiddlesNothing to forgive here. What do want to hear as an explanation that will satisfy you? Yes, search the depths of God. But also realize that you don't have to fully comprehend something to be a functional part of it. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 498151 United States07/28/2011 08:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| EvilBugger
User ID: 1466774  Australia07/28/2011 08:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is a weak & pathetic argument to think that if you commit a sin, it is ok because supposedly some bugger who died 2000 years ago will allow you to escape punishment & judgement. What a load of bollocks. If you commit any sin you are the one who is responsible and will have to face the subsequent consequences. Confessing your sins on Sunday then doing sinful acts during the week is like a vortex whose depth is never ending. I throw idiots on the bbq...™ Best Idiot Idiom so far: You are about as far from the truth as can be ! thats why you are a EvilBugger Quoting: AC1457060 - Zionist shill |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1371470 United States07/28/2011 08:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | To answer your question for others; Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371470That one man Adam fell to death the one man Christ rose from death. The old covenant was full of sacrifice of animals for the forgiveness of sin, the Jews could not keep the covenant internally or in their heart. The New Covenant is in the belief of that one that was killed for telling the Truth..Jesus Christ, his one death was a last sacrifice for all, and if one believes he is God's Son and he rose from the dead, eternal life is the result. You really lost me there. I don't understand how the death or rising of individuals changes the rules of the after life. At that point it just seems like God changes his mind at will and people being sacrificed becomes pointless. You reveal yourself with your question, you already had an answer to your question before you posted it. Why are you asking lowly me ask God, why did mankind decide to mate with non-humans? It pissed God off.....that is the knowledge of Good and Evil.....mixing our DNA with that of another forbidden DNA, thus we fell from the Tree of Life! The result is death....from the fall.....life results from the one dead man rising...victory over our fall....! It all seems to come back to god being a spoiled, demanding, fickle, temper-tantrum prone child doesn't it? You really think any of this is for God? I believe his patience has seen many generations of rough bolders rounded over by gentle and sometimes violent river washing's into smooth river rock. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1485849 Canada07/28/2011 08:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | God used to be quite happy with animal sacrifices. He used to content himself smelling the burned flesh, but like all psychos, he graduated to human sacrifice. First he had people just cut bits of their bodies off, but I guess that was not enough, so he moved in to full blown slaughter and cruel death like cruxifixion. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1485849If you do not accept the sacrifice that God Himself made for mankind, then you will die in your sins, and be required to pay to the uttermost. I pray that God grants your wicked soul the light of His redemption in Jesus Christ. Stupid psycho ass did not ask me if I wanted him to sacrifice for me, then he demands payment. What a dipshit. If that's the way he behaves then I want nothing to do with him. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 498151 United States07/28/2011 08:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: ScrodiddlesYou will forgive me when I say that my experience has lead me to never "Just Know" something. It is not wise to take something so profound and just run with it. Especially when those that espouse it as the truth can't actually explain it. I never buy a product that doesn't have instructions and, as far as I can tell, the bible is lacking instructions on a very large part of it's teachings. I believe in gravity that is invisible and yet I see it working around me and in me everyday, but I cannot fully explain it. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1475638 United States07/28/2011 08:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Listen, I honestly don't know if this has been explained already. To be honest, after reading the first page and seeing all the "non-answers" and the just complete ignorant criticism of Christianity, I just let it be. I assumed it would be more productive to contribute a duplicate point than to read the lack of insight. To answer the OP, Essentially you were enslaved to Satan. Slaves in the sense that we were controlled by our inability to abstain from of our ever-increasing wickedness. The system of sacrifice from the beginning was that you must shed blood to save blood. So, in order to be freed from this slavery you had to have another life die to take your penalty. This was primarily practiced in the sacrifices of animals. It of course, was not very practical because...well..you're going to sin again. However, because the second Yahweh is an eternal being who is not bound by "time", his sacrifice was eternal. It was of high value pertaining to the usury set by Satan. So, while we can continue sinning and willfully reject the eternal sacrifice given for our sins, all others in God's eyes are...perfect. God's reality sees us under the sacrifice not bound by time. Now, OP...I have a question for you. How have you not heard this or understood this in the past? This is basic 101 Christianity. You can read Romans 6 for a basic summary. |
| fairflight
User ID: 1071336 United States07/28/2011 08:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | To answer your question for others; Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1371470That one man Adam fell to death the one man Christ rose from death. The old covenant was full of sacrifice of animals for the forgiveness of sin, the Jews could not keep the covenant internally or in their heart. The New Covenant is in the belief of that one that was killed for telling the Truth..Jesus Christ, his one death was a last sacrifice for all, and if one believes he is God's Son and he rose from the dead, eternal life is the result. You really lost me there. I don't understand how the death or rising of individuals changes the rules of the after life. At that point it just seems like God changes his mind at will and people being sacrificed becomes pointless. Christ died, as the ultimate sacrifice, to cover the 'fall of man' which brought about mortality/physical death. Each one of us that has been born has received a body that is the house of his spirit. At death, the spirit and body are separated. The sacrifice paid the penalty of required justice for the 'Fall to mortality' and each of us 'will' receive resurrection because of this selfless act of sacrifice. It covered the penalty of required justice which is an eternal principle. It does not mean that we can sin and not worry about it. All we are promised is resurrection, the uniting of body and spirit, forever. Where we spend that forever, is a different deal entirely. If we wish to gain exaltation, to be joint heirs with Christ in Gods kingdom, then we need to understand that we have work to do. One needs to learn what those requirements are and apply them to their lives. Christ said, if you love me, keep my commandments. He said many other things as did his prophets. We need to search these out, learn what they are and follow them. None of us are perfect, because we are all in a fallen state of mortality, but we can gain knowledge of God and his requirements and apply them to the best of our ability, so that we can receive mercy (covered also by Christs sacrifice but only when we have faith AND works) to make up for the rest. It is work!!! It is not free, and deliberate sin without repentence will, by necessity, require the law of justice to be paid by each of us, which caused even the Son of God to bleed from every pore in Gethsemane. One needs to: Believe repent receive baptism keep the commandments (need to know what they are to do this) If we do these things, then we receive the law of mercy and our sins are covered by the sacrifice of the Son of God. So much more....but these are the basics. Last Edited by fairflight on 07/28/2011 08:34 PM "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. ALL truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself." |
| Needles Eye
User ID: 1480101 United States07/28/2011 08:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is a weak & pathetic argument to think that if you commit a sin, it is ok because supposedly some bugger who died 2000 years ago will allow you to escape punishment & judgement. What a load of bollocks. If you commit any sin you are the one who is responsible and will have to face the subsequent consequences. Confessing your sins on Sunday then doing sinful acts during the week is like a vortex whose depth is never ending. Quoting: EvilBuggerI don't think any Christian would say that it's "ok" to commit sin because Jesus paid for it. It's not "ok". Jesus paid a HEAVY price for it, and every sin we commit just adds to that burden. If sin were "ok" to commit, God would not have sent His only begotten Son to pay for it. It's not and never will be "ok". The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. |
