For those who doubt the apostle paul

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I think the point is you were assuming Peter did not have wisdom to see Judas therefore he would not have wisdom to see Paul. I say, none of his disciples had 'wisdom' until the bringer of wisdom came on the scene. Consider how they mostly floundered about until Pentecost. Trying to do things which were contrary to the Holy Spirit guidance.

UNTIL they received the Holy Spirit. Then the lights went ON.

Now Peter makes it clear in his epistle:

2 PETER 3:

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

[link to godsview.com]

He is not mincing words here. He knows Paul. He knows Pauls mission and purpose and he knows Pauls wisdom. He also knows that there were and would be those who oppose Pausl writings. Surely the Holy Spirits knows. Did The Holy Spirit inspire such direct comments. I know what my answer is. But I will let you decide yours.

I can appreciate personal revelations. I have had a few myself. And they are for me.

Paul had personal revelations. Scripture tells us so. So many that he needed to be buffeted to remain humble. He experienced chastening from a messenger of the LORD to keep him in check. Don't we all at times.

But personal revelations cannot be contrary to scripture, or If they are, I would SERIOUSLY question the power which provides them. Because God does not author confusion.

I wish you well.

Blessings and prayer to you,

the really long posts arent worth addressing.

they are a tactic, you copied and pasted.

brainiac.

and not only did you copy and paste, but you did it in a way a moron could see thats its a blitz.

people do these sorts of things cause they know they are incorrect, and then the clause, if your wrong on just one thing, then i win.......

which doesnt mean you win, it means you have answers for those questions.

so the true purpose is so you can exalt yourself.

unless your lying and dont know the answers

if so, then how would you know the answers were correct???

Wow!


Your intellect certainly has a familiar shine to it:)






:)

How snotty and unkind Ac.

There is no need to take the time to read your long
writing. You're no authority on Paul. You just want to
slam him.

God performed miracles through Paul, that is quite
enough evidence.

Five sentences found in Scripture.


Acts Of Apostles 14:8 This same heard Paul speaking. Who looking upon him, and seeing that he had faith to be healed,


Acts Of Apostles 28:8 And it happened that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever, and of a bloody flux. To whom Paul entered in; and when he had prayed, and laid his hands on him, he healed him


Acts of Apostles 19:11 And God wrought by the hand of Paul more than common miracles. 12 So that even there were brought from his body to the sick, handkerchiefs and aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the wicked spirits went out of them.

Hello 1441822,

I was hoping you would return to engage in the discussion. It is getting late here and I am getting sloppy (my last post was a mess! - lol!)

LORD willing, I will return tomorrow and spend more time digesting your original post and make efforts to address your thoughts. Perhaps others will also.

Have a nice evening all and thanks OP and other for your contributions and for reading mine.

Have a nice evening all.

In his Love.

peace,

How you going to explain eyewitness to Paul's multiple miracles?

This is a great thread to read... and i'm not even a religious person.... But the way that AC1052634 put out his argumentation is great....

I would like to read how Paul defenders adress every one of his points... but sadly enough... that don't seems to happen anytime soon....... well... maybe i got better luck next time i guess

For sure fabian01,

But dont despair, It seems you found what you were looking for in the illuminati bible blueprint video. You should be good over there.

peace,

???????????
Paul wrote two thirds of the new testament and you say
"I've had my doubts about Paul"? Be very cautious
about how you speak of God's anointed. Better to be
silent if you can't discern the anointed men of God.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up , and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe . 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness , giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear ? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved , even as they.

funny, here we have Peter saying the same things......

1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them(the apostles) that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation , lest by any means I should run , or had run , in vain.

i swear! 14 years he preached!!! without conferring with anyone!

6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were , it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they(the apostles) who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

but his gospel was perfect and complete for gentile christians...... so said all the apostles, in the conference.

wow, he must of had God's Holy Spirit there!

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage

hmmm, even paul is worried about "false bretheren"

as i said, you remove one, they all will fall.

galatians would be an excellent book for everyone fighting against paul. provided you could actually understand what its saying.

three reasons why jews wanted to keep the law

12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised ; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised , that they may glory in your flesh.

three reasons why neither jews or gentiles should keep the law

14 But God forbid that I should glory , save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 17 From henceforth let no man trouble me : for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. 18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen

NO.. that thread only have a nice video... but nothing like the argumentation on this one.... argumentation that seems to be death right now on this thread.... as i said before, better luck next time

Stop in tomorrow. There will be pizza and soda pops. lol!

peace,

Imagine facing Our Lord? Notice, I bumped it up even
and not a word about the 3 miracles of Paul.

They're silly.

Here's another. To deny the Lord's Day is Sunday
to honor Jesus's Resurrection. The Sabbath has been
changed. The first Christians changed it. God even
prophesied it would be changed and that He was displeased
with the Sabbath.

Like Paul didn't know what day he was talking about...
The "first day of the week" is Sunday.

Wow this thread doesn't seem so holy to me, why don't you just follow JESUS teachings, its so simple

ROFL. Yeah right, it's easy to understand, no possible way to misinterpret anything. And luckily we don't have a super intelligent army of beings with supernatural power hell bent on causing as much confusion and misdirection as possible... oh wait a second.

The enormity of depth in the meaning of the holy bible, Jesus/ Yahushua's parables etc. is so huge I know hardly a thing, except that it's not simple

I didn't mean Jesus teachings are simple, I meant follow Jesus and no one else simple

You know for a thread about the gospel, there's too much idiot this, fool that, sarcasm, rudeness, disrespect, judgement etc and these type of threads are all similar, no wonder why atheists look at these threads and shakes their heads. If someone has a different belief from you you could have a good debate about it, if you can't get through to them leave it it ain't gonna kill you, nobody has 100% truth don't let your ego convince you otherwise.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I think the point is you were assuming Peter did not have wisdom to see Judas therefore he would not have wisdom to see Paul. I say, none of his disciples had 'wisdom' until the bringer of wisdom came on the scene. Consider how they mostly floundered about until Pentecost. Trying to do things which were contrary to the Holy Spirit guidance.

UNTIL they received the Holy Spirit. Then the lights went ON.

Now Peter makes it clear in his epistle:

2 PETER 3:

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

[link to godsview.com]

He is not mincing words here. He knows Paul. He knows Pauls mission and purpose and he knows Pauls wisdom. He also knows that there were and would be those who oppose Pausl writings. Surely the Holy Spirits knows. Did The Holy Spirit inspire such direct comments. I know what my answer is. But I will let you decide yours.

I can appreciate personal revelations. I have had a few myself. And they are for me.

Paul had personal revelations. Scripture tells us so. So many that he needed to be buffeted to remain humble. He experienced chastening from a messenger of the LORD to keep him in check. Don't we all at times.

But personal revelations cannot be contrary to scripture, or If they are, I would SERIOUSLY question the power which provides them. Because God does not author confusion.

I wish you well.

Blessings and prayer to you,


I'm glad we can have a reasonable discussion, seems out of place on GLP

I've considered what you are saying and see you're point. I agree Peter gained the power of the holy spirit and spoke of Paul as a beloved brother. Peter was a 'top shelf' apostle and could perform miracles and not to be easily deceived.

Consider what I'm saying as a hypothetical -
1. Satan comes up with a plan to hijack the new testament and Christianity by having his agent (a Pharisee no less who we were warned about)write most of the NT and set up essentially some of the back bone teachings of the last couple of thousand years.
2. God not only new the plan from the beginning but uses this to bring about the famine for the word of God foretold in Amos.
3. Not only that, but God also turns Paul's (Baalam) curses to blessings by having him reveal inspired spiritual truths.
4. Not only that, but he leaves several TESTS within the scriptures themselves. I don't want to write a novel on this, but probably the best example is:

PAUL
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
JAMES
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If the five points above were true, would God let Peter discern Paul as an infiltrator and ruin the plan, or would he instead let Peter see Paul's blessings and allow prophecy and His will to be fulfilled? This is where I sit.

With regards to receiving revelations personally, you can keep them to yourself which is fine, but I believe for me, that which was given freely, I will pass on freely also. The way it happened has happened to me three times in my life. And yes I respect that the enemy is exceptional in his craft of creating lies and deception, and there's no doubt in my mind he has influenced dreams of mine to influence the way I feel about certain people in my life. But the revelation of the famine was very different, and delivered in close study of the word while praying to the Most High God of Israel, I my faith and belief was that it was a special gift from heaven, not hell.

As I said it had happened three times - woe to me should I ignore such an amazing gift, very humbling since I've spent 35 of my 38 years as an atheist and have never gone to church in my life, EVER. (excluding to attend a wedding or funeral). In fact I'm 38 today - but hey, praise Yah we Christians need to honour the creator not the creature

You're right, but this thread was created to provoke discussion on this controversial topic, and as I said previously it testifies to the 'hotness' of our faith that we be fired up on this one way or the other!

If it's doing your head just leave the thread no harm done

Yep, I did have my doubts about paul in the past, and I"m not afraid to say it, because that's being honest.

God gave me a brain, and I use it. I use it to examine everything, every scripture, every writing to see if it's true or not.

I've come to the conclusion that Paul was correct after much study and examination.

If you have a problem with that, it's your problem, not mine.

I'm far from perfect, and I sin everyday, but one thing about me is that I'm honest. And guess what? God loves me, faults and all.

I get so sick and tired of some people around here that try to find fault with everything I say, they pick apart a post and try and find fault with it.

Get a hobby or something.

Dude. Paul misquoting moses is not a major issue. Do you remember everything you learned when you were younger ?. The human brain deteriorates with age.

God bless you.

I don't see how people can say Paul is not a Christian. He seem like one to me. You have to remember that just because people are Christian doens't mean that they are perfecdt. He gave his opinions and they were infused with the Holy Spirit. That is what you are supposed to glean from reading his letters, not that you have to agree with everything he says like it is the law of Leviticus.

Peopel think the Bible is a law book. Law is only part of the book. It is also history, poetry, musings, song, speculation, prophesy, and opinion. If you want to take everylie in it like it came literally from the mouth of God himself, you will be misled.

You need to approach the Bible with humility and an open mind.

correction of typo

How can I doubt him, who is he?

Thank you! God bless you too!

AC1052634 - your posts bring up many excellent points. As a 10 year Aspiring Overcomer, I would have great difficulty challenging these very points.

I've struggled with Paul's bypassing the Apostles, treatment of women, setting up church hierarchy, and Romans 13 submission to governments but by Paul's own admission, is that only an EARNEST of Holy Spirit is dispensed upon the new believers Eph 1:14, not a full stroke like churchians seem to fling around.

I'm not ready to throw Paul under the chariot yet - as he too may have simply been a BABY CHRISTIAN.

Which?

The one of his without scripture references?

The one he copied from Jeff Ward and can't defend because it has scripture references?

or this one where you can smell the smoke coming out of his ears?....











:)

There's a video?



:)

Have you even read Rev 2?

Does it say which apostles (plural) are false?

Are you suggesting that they were all false?





?