For those who doubt the apostle paul

Paul was a Jew, also a Christian BOUNTY HUNTER WHO HUNTED CHRISTIANS! Yeah, why would he lie about a vision that changed Christianity into a pagan religion..WAKE UP (OP) stop being a sheep and do some research....Paul = Corrupted Christianity

That's a fine theory, OP, but it is just a theory. The reason you believe it is because it scratches your current particular itch. In 6 months, or 2 years, or 10 years you will have a different theory.

.
.
.
B
U
M
P
.
.
.
....:)

why am i not surprised :)

because God protects His word.





.)

Nobody takin your bait?


We could always argue about something else:)

It is your thread....





:::

hmmm, no.

I am your huckleberry OP.

I will 100% engage you in debate regarding the false Apostle Paul!

I have a few rules.

#1 You must refute ANY and ALL points I raise regarding Paul.

#2 The burden of proof is upon you.

#3 If at ANY TIME I can show even one time that:

A. Paul lied.
B. Paul misquoted Moses.
C. Paul misquoted the Tanakh.
D. Paul undermined the Authority of the 12.
E. Paul taught the opposite of Jesus

You will at once, and without hesitation declare both privately and in public, Paul to be a false prophet!

To Begin I will discuss your post which will be left in black, with my replies in red.


But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said , Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained , was it not thine own ? and after it was sold , was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down , and gave up the ghost : and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose , wound him up , and carried him out , and buried him. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done , came in . 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said , Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold , the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out . 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost : and the young men came in , and found her dead, and, carrying her forth , buried her by her husband.

can anybody understand what this is saying???

it basically says Peter has authority.....

can anyone else see what else it is saying???

that through the Holy Spirit, Peter could discern things.

First of all your entire concept that Peter has authority destroys your own argument.

Paul himself attempts to undermine the authority of Peter in the book of Galatians when he writes TO THE ENTIRE REGION of Galatia and attempts to make Peter look like a hypocrite over the issue of Food. While Paul the moron of Tarsus, says in the very letter that anyone who is circumcised "Christ will profit them nothing.

Paul being the biggest hypocrite to ever walk the planet earth then has Timothy circumcised for "Fear of the Jews"!

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Ah here we have the typical christian argument, and a perfect example of why I do not care much for christians.

Why you ask? Because you are liars who only quote a numbered soundbyte called a "verse" that seems to enforce your religious dogma.

You failed to state several things here regarding 2 Peter chapter 3.

#1 It is well know that 2 Peter is a forgery and that Peter never wrote this. Even church history records that even during the time which this letter began to circulate (Which was way after the real Peter was dead), the people then considered this to be a forgery!

Now I realize that as a christian this utterly terrifies you, and you will rationlize this away and just think what a bad person I am (For dare telling you the truth). Almost all of the MOST CONSERVATIVE SCHOLARS ADMIT 2 PETER IS A FORGERY, ONLY THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL (BRAINWASHED) SCHOLARS DENY IT A FORGERY! Peter did not even spell his name correctly!

#2 For the sake of argument we are going to assume for a moment that 2 Peter is legit, and go over a few things.

A. You failed to quote the entire section showing because it shows you to be full of shit. You only quoted 1 sentence taken out of context to reinforce your religious dogma!

B. Historically both Martin Luther and John Calvin wanted 2 Peter removed from Scripture BECAUSE THEY FELT IT WAS WRITTEN AS A CONDEMNATION OF PAUL!

C. You failed to mention the context of 2 Peter 3. "Peter" or the anonymous author was warning about false prophets. IN FACT VERSE 17 SAYS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT LEARNED IN THE SCRIPTURES (THE TANAKH, ONLY THEY EXISTED) DESTROY THEMSELVES WITH PAUL AND USE PAUL AS A EXCUSE FOR LAWLESSNESS!

So in reality 2 Peter chapter 3 is a warning about the stuff Paul writes and "Peter" warns Paul's letters will destroy people and make them forsake the law of Moses!

DO YOU KNOW OF ANY RELIGIONS THAT ARE BASED UPON PAUL'S LETTERS THAT FORSAKE THE LAW OF MOSES?

If Peter has the ability to discern, and paul is a false apostle, then why does Peter call him "beloved brother Paul"??

Why doesn't "Peter" here call Paul an Apostle? Once again this is a WARNING about the things Paul writes, not some hype about Paul!

Again, if Paul is false, why then does Peter go with Paul to Rome???

There is NO ACCOUNT IN SCRIPTURE OF PETER EVER GOING TO ROME WITH PAUL.

In fact, Peter's tomb has been found in ISRAEL, proving the roman church fairy tells about Peter to be false!

Not to mention, ALL THE WRITINGS OF PETER THAT WERE NOT VOTED INTO CANNON, SHOW PAUL TO BE THE ACTUAL ENEMY OF THE 12 APOSTLES! THIS IS BACKED UP BY THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS!

the answer is simple, its because Paul wasnt a false apostle!

Yes Paul was, he admits it in his own letters that he was rejected as a false Apostle by all of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey). In fact this is where John presided over at one time, and these are the very "Churches" that Jesus wrote to in Revelations!

Jesus reveals much in his letters

#1 None of these churches (Besides Ephesus) were established by Paul! NONE OF THEM!

#2 Paul admits via his own letters to Timothy that he was rejected as a false Apostle as Ephesus. JESUS BRAGS ON EPHESUS FOR REJECTING FALSE APOSTLES!

#3 Jesus rebukes churches who were eating meat sacrificed to idols! Paul in his very letters teaches that this is ok to do!

To preach or teach otherwise is rebellion unto the Lord and his authority, because that is the authority Peter and all the Apostles worked under.

Actually the real Apostles rebuke Paul in their own letters.

#1 James is a direct refutation of Paul. James specifically says a man is NOT saved by faith alone! It is well known via church history that Paul was James enemy. James was Jesus BROTHER who was head of the churches and the Apostles after Jesus died.

#2 Jude, another brother of Jesus, is a direct refutation of Pauline filth, as Jude points out the people who were turning "Grace into a license to sin". Sin as defined by the Torah and the Apostle John in 1 John 3:4 is "TRANSGRESSION OF THE TORAH" aka breaking the Torah. Now just who in first century Judea was preaching "grace and faith alone" as a license to not keep the law of Moses?

#3 1 John is a direct refutation of Paul of Tarsus. John reveals several things

a. John tells us "Let no man fool you, he who practices righteousness is righteous" WHAT MAN IN FIRST CENTURY JUDEA WAS TELLING PEOPLE THEY WERE RIGHTEOUS VIA A SIMPLE "FAITH THOUGHT" ABOUT JESUS!

B. John tells us that the spirit of Anti-Messiah went out from among them and was at large. John also tells us to test the spirits, and that anyone who says Jesus was not 100% human was the spirit of anti-christ John says anyone who says Jesus did not "Come in the flesh" in your English Bible.

Paul twice in his letters teaches the exact opposite and says Jesus only came in the "likeness of Flesh"

C. John tells us that anyone who does not keep the commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in them.

D. John tells us that we correctly love our neighbors and love YHWH if we KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!


16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest , as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

And this is why I do not like Christians, because you sir, forgot to quote verse 17! (because it destroys your argument!)

AND STICK TO THE STORY LINE!!!

The Gentiles were storming the gates of heaven getting in.

The Jews were the ones having problems understanding!

Actually Christian, Jesus himself told the Samaritan woman that THE JEWS HAD IT RIGHT ALL ALONG. Jesus rebuked only certain rabbinical classes which used the TALMUD or the so called "Oral Torah".

The Talmud adds or subtracts thousands of man made laws and traditions. The TORAH FORBIDS THIS!

thats why paul was successful and Peter wrote this, Peter was ministering to whom???? the Jews.

Uh no Paul was not successful, Paul admits via his own letters that he was rejected everywhere as a false Apostle!

In fact history shows us that those who quoted Paul were considered heretics and marcionites! American Protestant christianity is nothing but modern day Marcionism where everything Jesus taught is ignored and Paul is the god.

Paul also admits via his own letters extreme jealousy of the "Chief Apostle", whom Paul mocks as "Those that seemed to be pillars" (Jesus said they were pillars!) Paul also goes on extensive rants in 2 Corinthians where he admits he is tormented by a fallen angel, and Paul admits the Corinthians have left him for the "Super Apostles". Paul later admits AND THREATENS TO KILL THE CORINTHIANS FOR ASKING FOR "PROOF THAT CHRIST SPEAKS IN ME"

Paul also undermines the very same Apostles in Galatians, and admits that PAUL preaches another gospel!

works do not produce faith, works are a product of Faith!!

There is no concept of the pagan concept of "Faith" in the Hebrew Scriptures. The true word is "Emunah" which entire books could be written about. In short it means a trust and reliance upon the Creator because you follow his eternal instructions. There is no concept of "Emunah" that is not a action in keeping Torah.

Paul in fact lies about what Moses said in Galatians. Paul also based his bullshit in Hab 2:4. No hebrew text on planet earth says "The Just shall live by faith"

The text say "The Just/Righteous shall live by their EMUNAH their FAITHFULNESS to the Creator" aka they keep the commandments and just like Duet. says it is accounted to them as righteousness. In context these are just people who keep the Creators commandments who are SCARED because of the events in the world around them. YHWH is saying "Trust me guys"

I trust you will not commit intellectual suicide and try and deny or argue emotionally the points I have raised.

I could list hundreds more! Paul of Tarsus is a Liar, and his letters are utter filth, and you have been brainwashed that they are the "word of God" because a bunch of child molesting pagan heathens who caused the dark ages and killed millions voted them into your Bible!

blah

I am guessing you are trying to refute my post from last night on the apocrypha thread.

Ask yourself, please.


Does God change?
No.we agree


Does God lie?
No.agree


Did God allow the serpent in his own perfect garden (Eden)?
Yes.i have no idea what a serpent has to do with this particular conversation, judas did fulfill that serpent if thats what you are driving at.


Does God test His people?
Yes.sure God tests his people, but if this is the way you want to look at things Mr. Catholic, then lets play!


Do you think you are better than Adam and Eve or anyone else He tested?


Paul is a liar, plain and simple. The faster you figure it out and get over it, the faster you can form a real relationship with God.

this is a good point, but if we play it your way, then peter is a liar as well, and apparently peter has no authority, or the Holy Spirit much less the ability to discern, and by the way, this alludes you outright calling Jesus himself a liar! For it was Jesus himself that told the Apostles he would send the Holy Spirit to guide them into ALL TRUTHS!

it is by the Holy Spirit the Peter can discern the intents of people, much like the story above, it is with the Holy SPirit which Peter had authority, referr to the story above again!

It is with that same Holy SPirit Peter has that he would have outted Paul if indeed he was there amoung them as a false Apostle, NOT calling him "our beloved brother" but would have told him to die as he did the people in the story above.

peter was not a soft man given into being nice, quite the contrary, he carried a sword and was prone to react dangerously, remember the roman guards ear??? remember the 2 people in the story above??

the truth of the matter is, your disillusioned. and are preaching and teaching a lie.




Revelation 2:2-5

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.