Pardon Me But Isn't The Term "Sovereign Citizen" An Oxymoron? | |
Cerrianna
User ID: 1400401 United States 06/11/2011 02:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sovereign Quoting: Da Purple ChickenIndependent of, and unlimited by, any other; possessing, or entitled to, original authority or jurisdiction; as, a sovereign state; a sovereign discretion. Citizen A person, native or naturalized, of either sex, who owes allegiance to a government, and is entitled to reciprocal protection from it. Here it's an OxymorAn. In war nobody is right,it's just the ones that are left lie about it! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1383816 United States 06/11/2011 02:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1277766 United States 06/11/2011 02:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sovereign Quoting: Da Purple ChickenIndependent of, and unlimited by, any other; possessing, or entitled to, original authority or jurisdiction; as, a sovereign state; a sovereign discretion. Citizen A person, native or naturalized, of either sex, who owes allegiance to a government, and is entitled to reciprocal protection from it. Here it's an OxymorAn. True! True! All your morans are belong to us “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Horace bubba
User ID: 860324 Canada 06/11/2011 02:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1277766 United States 06/11/2011 02:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | To be truly sovereign, you would need to reside on land to which you hold allodial title. Allodial Title Allodial title is a real property ownership system where the real property is owed free and clear of any superior landlord. In this case, the owner will have an absolute title over his or her property. Property owned under allodial title is referred as allodial land. Allodial lands are the absolute property of their owner, and are not subject to any service or acknowledgment to a superior. In allodial lands there will not be any control by a superior landlord. “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423752 Portugal 06/11/2011 02:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The definition depends on what dictionary you consult. According to the Commercial code a non capitalized entity is a sovereign entity. A capitalized entity is subjected to its parent entity. When you use The word citizen ; or at the beginning of the sentence Citizen. Than you talk about a non-capitalized entity. CITIZEN is a capitalized entity. The difference is also more subtle than you project. A citizen is the source of its government. And Technically owns its government. A CITIZEN does not own its government, witch is usually a government "Under god" --> eg the pope and the Vatican. Yet the Vatican can not directly own that CITIZEN as its owned by the state. This because of Trias Politicas. Church and state are separated. The current Banking cartels with links to the Vatican seem to null the Trias Politicas. But thats also politics. As the politicians can easily make laws to outlaw banking sector out of the political arena for ties with the Vatican. Yet they don't. |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1277766 United States 06/11/2011 03:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | From The Law of Nations - 1. What is meant by the term nation or state. Nations or States are political bodies, societies of men who have united together and combined their forces, in order to procure their mutual welfare and security. .... 4. How nations or states are to be regarded. Since Nations are composed of men who are by nature free and independent, and who before the establishment of civil society lived together in the state of nature, such Nations or sovereign States must be regarded as so many free persons living together in the state of nature. Proof can be had from works on the natural law the liberty and independence belong to man by his very nature, and that they can not be taken from him without his consent. Citizens of a State, having yielded them in part to the sovereign, do not enjoy them to their full and absolute extent. But the whole body of the Nation, the State, so long as it has not voluntarily submitted to other men or other Nations, remains absolutely free and independent. 5. To what laws nations are subject. As men are subject to the law of nature, and as their union in civil society can not exempt them from obligation of observing those laws, since in that union they remain none the less men, the Nation, whose common will is but the outcome of the united wills of the citizens, remains subject to the laws of nature and is bound to respect them in all its undertaking. And since right is derived from obligation, as we have just remarked, a Nation has the same rights that nature gives to men for the fulfillment of their duties. Seems to me that our current governments are pretty f'd up and completely violate these principles. “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423481 United States 06/11/2011 03:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The definition depends on what dictionary you consult. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1423752According to the Commercial code a non capitalized entity is a sovereign entity. A capitalized entity is subjected to its parent entity. When you use The word citizen ; or at the beginning of the sentence Citizen. Than you talk about a non-capitalized entity. CITIZEN is a capitalized entity. The difference is also more subtle than you project. A citizen is the source of its government. And Technically owns its government. A CITIZEN does not own its government, witch is usually a government "Under god" --> eg the pope and the Vatican. Yet the Vatican can not directly own that CITIZEN as its owned by the state. This because of Trias Politicas. Church and state are separated. The current Banking cartels with links to the Vatican seem to null the Trias Politicas. But thats also politics. As the politicians can easily make laws to outlaw banking sector out of the political arena for ties with the Vatican. Yet they don't. For the OP, the moral to the story is: a) Don't rely on a single-source answer b) Do your research c) If you recognize corruption, stand up to it d) Question Authority If you are truly interested, here is some research for you: What is the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) and how does it promulgate the conduct of business/trade/commerce? What countries are under the UCC? What is the difference between Maritime Law and the Law of the Land? Is your local Law Enforcement a company or a public servant employed by local government? What is authority and how is authoritative power derived? |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1277766 United States 06/11/2011 03:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The definition depends on what dictionary you consult. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1423752According to the Commercial code a non capitalized entity is a sovereign entity. A capitalized entity is subjected to its parent entity. When you use The word citizen ; or at the beginning of the sentence Citizen. Than you talk about a non-capitalized entity. CITIZEN is a capitalized entity. The difference is also more subtle than you project. A citizen is the source of its government. And Technically owns its government. A CITIZEN does not own its government, witch is usually a government "Under god" --> eg the pope and the Vatican. Yet the Vatican can not directly own that CITIZEN as its owned by the state. This because of Trias Politicas. Church and state are separated. The current Banking cartels with links to the Vatican seem to null the Trias Politicas. But thats also politics. As the politicians can easily make laws to outlaw banking sector out of the political arena for ties with the Vatican. Yet they don't. For the OP, the moral to the story is: a) Don't rely on a single-source answer b) Do your research c) If you recognize corruption, stand up to it d) Question Authority If you are truly interested, here is some research for you: What is the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) and how does it promulgate the conduct of business/trade/commerce? What countries are under the UCC? What is the difference between Maritime Law and the Law of the Land? Is your local Law Enforcement a company or a public servant employed by local government? What is authority and how is authoritative power derived? I do know about all of that. Yet, by definition in The Law of Nations, one gives up some of their rights to become a citizen and thus are no longer completely sovereign. You can't be both. “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423481 United States 06/11/2011 03:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The definition depends on what dictionary you consult. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1423752According to the Commercial code a non capitalized entity is a sovereign entity. A capitalized entity is subjected to its parent entity. When you use The word citizen ; or at the beginning of the sentence Citizen. Than you talk about a non-capitalized entity. CITIZEN is a capitalized entity. The difference is also more subtle than you project. A citizen is the source of its government. And Technically owns its government. A CITIZEN does not own its government, witch is usually a government "Under god" --> eg the pope and the Vatican. Yet the Vatican can not directly own that CITIZEN as its owned by the state. This because of Trias Politicas. Church and state are separated. The current Banking cartels with links to the Vatican seem to null the Trias Politicas. But thats also politics. As the politicians can easily make laws to outlaw banking sector out of the political arena for ties with the Vatican. Yet they don't. For the OP, the moral to the story is: a) Don't rely on a single-source answer b) Do your research c) If you recognize corruption, stand up to it d) Question Authority If you are truly interested, here is some research for you: What is the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) and how does it promulgate the conduct of business/trade/commerce? What countries are under the UCC? What is the difference between Maritime Law and the Law of the Land? Is your local Law Enforcement a company or a public servant employed by local government? What is authority and how is authoritative power derived? I do know about all of that. Yet, by definition in The Law of Nations, one gives up some of their rights to become a citizen and thus are no longer completely sovereign. You can't be both. So, you are discussing the semantics? Within a system which has usurped "Law" by establishing "Policies ans Statutes", a "Sovereign Citizen" can move about unmolested by "Policies and Statutes" while living under the Law (Mans Law. Gods Law). Meaning that there are Two-systems in place. The system of Man and the Corporate system; where one is superimposed over the other. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1424155 Germany 06/11/2011 03:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Citizen is a compliment to the fact, nobody can leave the Herd grid. Is a matter of attention you cannot refuse. Citizenship thus is an organized form of paying attention in an intelligent way. To keep all threats out from the single partizipient wheras he is assumed to have in the other hand freedom of all his decisions. A citizen is regarded sovereign in his belief. Freedom of love. Freedom of doing buisness. Freedom of speech as well as freedom to get listen to. But no freedom to use enforcement. He is free to vote those who are in charge for exaktly that job, to cool down the fires of affect, and, because this is a quite difficult work, he has the comfort to control what they are doing. He is free from decisionsmaker above him because he has a saying all over he has a place. An no word is more worth than his own at his own place. He has even the sovereignity to pay bills or not. It is his private affair who doesn't bother a judge to patronize his decision. If such things could achieved you will have the sovereign citizen as a combination of words with a passable error tolerance. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1401788 United States 06/11/2011 03:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423481 United States 06/11/2011 03:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP! Have you, at any point in your query, questioned the information source, from which you derived the definitions? Do you know what documentation was used to derive the definitions given? What are those sources? What do the source documents say? Are they Corporate or Legal definitions? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423481 United States 06/11/2011 03:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why is it that these sovereign citizen people are so hyper smart and can figure out ways to ignore laws but cannot hold down a fucking job? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1401788Why is it that some religious freaks seem to think the Christian Work Ethic should be foisted upon the masses in order to bring them into Corporate Slave status? |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1150269 United States 06/11/2011 03:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Rome was the first to develop the concept of corporations - non-human entities with the rights of individuals. The Roman Catholic Church developed and established it further with the oldest corporation still in existence being the Benedictine Order. “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423971 United Kingdom 06/11/2011 03:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A "sovereign" individual, residing on land whose title belongs to another, has no rights while on said land as he is not a citizen. Quoting: Da Purple ChickenTo be truly sovereign, you would need to reside on land to which you hold allodial title. Allodial Title Allodial title is a real property ownership system where the real property is owed free and clear of any superior landlord. In this case, the owner will have an absolute title over his or her property. Property owned under allodial title is referred as allodial land. Allodial lands are the absolute property of their owner, and are not subject to any service or acknowledgment to a superior. In allodial lands there will not be any control by a superior landlord. Nobody owns any land, no matter how many bits of paper they have or what they imagine inside their deluded mind. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1401788 United States 06/11/2011 03:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why is it that these sovereign citizen people are so hyper smart and can figure out ways to ignore laws but cannot hold down a fucking job? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1401788Why is it that some religious freaks seem to think the Christian Work Ethic should be foisted upon the masses in order to bring them into Corporate Slave status? LOL christian work ethic?!??! You mean hire mexicans to do it? Enslave the local population to do the work? Put the work on your credit card? Paying your fucking rent does not equate to being a corporate slave loser. |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1150269 United States 06/11/2011 03:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP! Have you, at any point in your query, questioned the information source, from which you derived the definitions? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1423481Do you know what documentation was used to derive the definitions given? What are those sources? What do the source documents say? Are they Corporate or Legal definitions? The Law of Nations “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1277766 United States 06/11/2011 03:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, 2 idiots that can't understand what this thread is discussing and enter into an intelligent dialog, instead give it one star. LOL! “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1401788 United States 06/11/2011 03:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, 2 idiots that can't understand what this thread is discussing and enter into an intelligent dialog, instead give it one star. LOL! Quoting: Da Purple ChickenWhen most of the users are not even real why does the start system mean anything? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1422236 Poland 06/11/2011 03:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sovereign Citizen or Nation are stupid concepts that basically defy the natural order of the planet or the universe in general. Even those that pull the strings don't believe in this crap it's nothing more than a mind tool to make groups or individuals easier to manipulate. |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1277766 United States 06/11/2011 03:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, 2 idiots that can't understand what this thread is discussing and enter into an intelligent dialog, instead give it one star. LOL! Quoting: Da Purple ChickenWhen most of the users are not even real why does the start system mean anything? “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423481 United States 06/11/2011 03:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sovereign Citizen or Nation are stupid concepts that basically defy the natural order of the planet or the universe in general. Even those that pull the strings don't believe in this crap it's nothing more than a mind tool to make groups or individuals easier to manipulate. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1422236As does Corporatism, Fascism and various other -ism's as well. How many Chinese made products are in your home? |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1277766 United States 06/11/2011 03:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sovereign Citizen or Nation are stupid concepts that basically defy the natural order of the planet or the universe in general. Even those that pull the strings don't believe in this crap it's nothing more than a mind tool to make groups or individuals easier to manipulate. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1422236:anarkee: “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423481 United States 06/11/2011 03:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP! Have you, at any point in your query, questioned the information source, from which you derived the definitions? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1423481Do you know what documentation was used to derive the definitions given? What are those sources? What do the source documents say? Are they Corporate or Legal definitions? The Law of Nations If you cannot answer the questions, in the order in which they are asked, with a proper response, maybe you have earned the Two stars. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423481 United States 06/11/2011 03:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why is it that these sovereign citizen people are so hyper smart and can figure out ways to ignore laws but cannot hold down a fucking job? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1401788Why is it that some religious freaks seem to think the Christian Work Ethic should be foisted upon the masses in order to bring them into Corporate Slave status? LOL christian work ethic?!??! You mean hire mexicans to do it? Enslave the local population to do the work? Put the work on your credit card? Paying your fucking rent does not equate to being a corporate slave loser. I have my own business. I built it myself with the help of nature. I grow landscaping plants. Working at a job, for a company, IS voluntary slavery. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1401788 United States 06/11/2011 03:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Why is it that these sovereign citizen people are so hyper smart and can figure out ways to ignore laws but cannot hold down a fucking job? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1401788Why is it that some religious freaks seem to think the Christian Work Ethic should be foisted upon the masses in order to bring them into Corporate Slave status? LOL christian work ethic?!??! You mean hire mexicans to do it? Enslave the local population to do the work? Put the work on your credit card? Paying your fucking rent does not equate to being a corporate slave loser. I have my own business. I built it myself with the help of nature. I grow landscaping plants. Working at a job, for a company, IS voluntary slavery. Its just a fucking insult to anyone who has actually had to be a slave. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423390 Slovenia 06/11/2011 03:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The definition depends on what dictionary you consult. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1423752According to the Commercial code a non capitalized entity is a sovereign entity. OP, as you have noticed “sovrun” citizens live in they own alternative universe – which doesn’t have much to do with this one. PS: the Capital letters theory is one of their favorite myths. |
Da Purple Chicken
(OP) User ID: 1277766 United States 06/11/2011 03:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP! Have you, at any point in your query, questioned the information source, from which you derived the definitions? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1423481Do you know what documentation was used to derive the definitions given? What are those sources? What do the source documents say? Are they Corporate or Legal definitions? The Law of Nations If you cannot answer the questions, in the order in which they are asked, with a proper response, maybe you have earned the Two stars. If you can't follow the thread by reading my previous posts and responses, perhaps you're the one with the problem. Free thought is not subject or limited to others definitions and strict "rules". Answer this, using whatever definitions you'd like - how can one be sovereign and a citizen at the same time? “If we are peaceful, if we are happy, we can smile and blossom like a flower, and everyone in our family, our entire society, will benefit from our peace.” Thich Nhat Hanh, Being Peace "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you." - Job 12:7,8 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S. Thompson revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1423481 United States 06/11/2011 03:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1423481Why is it that some religious freaks seem to think the Christian Work Ethic should be foisted upon the masses in order to bring them into Corporate Slave status? LOL christian work ethic?!??! You mean hire mexicans to do it? Enslave the local population to do the work? Put the work on your credit card? Paying your fucking rent does not equate to being a corporate slave loser. I have my own business. I built it myself with the help of nature. I grow landscaping plants. Working at a job, for a company, IS voluntary slavery. Its just a fucking insult to anyone who has actually had to be a slave. What is your question? |