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Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.

 
XinTexas
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05/24/2011 02:34 PM
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Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Good luck folks. Hope you're not in Oklahoma right now.

Last Edited by XinTexas on 05/24/2011 04:36 PM
Don't bother calling me a Neocon. I'm a card-carrying Libertarian.
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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain
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05/24/2011 02:36 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
or just let nature take its course??????????????
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 02:37 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
well i live in wichita, so whatever were going to do we better figure the shit out quick
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 02:38 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas


I think you are grossly underestimating the total energy in a tornado and the total amount of energy needed to counter it.
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05/24/2011 02:38 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
gods vacuum cleaners 5a
XinTexas  (OP)

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05/24/2011 02:38 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.


Last Edited by XinTexas on 05/24/2011 04:34 PM
Don't bother calling me a Neocon. I'm a card-carrying Libertarian.
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A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 02:40 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
There's no such thing as an original thought.
XinTexas  (OP)

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05/24/2011 02:43 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I think you are grossly underestimating the total energy in a tornado and the total amount of energy needed to counter it?

I think you are grossly underestimating how easy it would be to make an area of sub-zero air a mile wide.

Last Edited by XinTexas on 05/24/2011 02:45 PM
Don't bother calling me a Neocon. I'm a card-carrying Libertarian.
----------
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes. - Mark Twain
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas


Sounds cool to me! (The snow on the dance floor)
I'll reserve the scientific comments to the more knowledgeable bunch.
hf
Rambaldi

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05/24/2011 02:52 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I've often wondered this same exact thing. There must be a way to implement such an idea.

It's probably just a cost issue, but it would save millions (of people AND dollars) in the long run.
"There is no spoon."
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 02:52 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Even testing your idea would be extremely difficult, OP. Positioning a huge container of liquid nitrogen directly in the path of a tornado and then releasing it at the right moment would be a logistical nightmare.
t3h3nd15n34r

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05/24/2011 03:06 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
From wikipedia: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

A typical thunderstorm has 10^15 juoles of energy. Google finds that a typical tornado has about 10,000 kW-hours, or about 36 billion joules. A kg of liquid nitrogen contains 97 watt-hours of energy (from [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Counteracting equivalently the energy of the tornado means you would need roughly 103,000 kg of liquid nitrogen. That assumes 1) 100% efficiency, 2) the tornado will not get any more energy from the thunderstorm, 3) other various factors.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:10 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I tornado isn't just the length of the visual you see coming down from the clouds to the ground. That part is just its tip.

A tornado is a several miles long rolling drum.
SnakeAirlines

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05/24/2011 03:11 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
OPie needs to lay off the crack pipe...
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
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05/24/2011 03:11 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas


It may have an effect, but you would need an incredible amount of refrigerant to make it work, and still have it be mobile.

Oh, and you dont have a theory, you have a hypothesis. Theory is the graduating point, the point at which a well tested and evidence hypothesis ascends to become the best explanation that fits the observation.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:13 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
You might be onto something there. They could easily install some type of laser guidance system on it just like the military missiles have.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:14 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas


Patent it and get funding! hf
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:15 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Perhaps a super-heavy lift launch vehicle can be used to target a tornado with the liquid nitrogen?

I figure 50,000kg to LEO is worth the 108,000kg to a relatively short distance away.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:18 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas


It may have an effect, but you would need an incredible amount of refrigerant to make it work, and still have it be mobile.

Oh, and you dont have a theory, you have a hypothesis. Theory is the graduating point, the point at which a well tested and evidence hypothesis ascends to become the best explanation that fits the observation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


Sounds like this could be deployed and rolled out the back of a c-130. One some big ass parachutes, does its business and lands safely. Could probably load a dozen of these things in the back and kill all the big twisters.

ohyeah
Hero Protagonist

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05/24/2011 03:19 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
What if the tornado sucked up the bomb? I can hear the warning now, "Please take cover, this is a tornado warning, and it is has a bomb."
"Take a chance while you still got a choice" Bon Scott
Once I was nothing, then I became everything
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:20 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas


It may have an effect, but you would need an incredible amount of refrigerant to make it work, and still have it be mobile.

Oh, and you dont have a theory, you have a hypothesis. Theory is the graduating point, the point at which a well tested and evidence hypothesis ascends to become the best explanation that fits the observation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


Sounds like this could be deployed and rolled out the back of a c-130. One some big ass parachutes, does its business and lands safely. Could probably load a dozen of these things in the back and kill all the big twisters.

ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1066161


I was actually just thinking about that, but then it comes to efficiency. You are going to have boil-off before the LN hits the storm, which means you will have to drop more than needed. And without precisely calibrating it, you might have to drop a lot more.

The reason i bring this up is pertains to the effect of dropping massive amounts of LN onto people and structures.

I am pretty sure the effect of blast freezing people is going to be worse than the tornado.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:21 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
What if the tornado sucked up the bomb? I can hear the warning now, "Please take cover, this is a tornado warning, and it is has a bomb."
 Quoting: Hero Protagonist


Sounds like the next hijack plot by al-qaida.
Hero Protagonist

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05/24/2011 03:27 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
What if the tornado sucked up the bomb? I can hear the warning now, "Please take cover, this is a tornado warning, and it is has a bomb."
 Quoting: Hero Protagonist


Sounds like the next hijack plot by al-qaida.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


Yeah, cause in case you haven't heard it was an inside job, done from the tomato plant conspiracy, in which TTPTB(The Tomato Plants That Be) engineered a program devised to make people take them "inside." And that is all my uncle will permit me to say on the matter.
"Take a chance while you still got a choice" Bon Scott
Once I was nothing, then I became everything
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:29 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
What if the tornado sucked up the bomb? I can hear the warning now, "Please take cover, this is a tornado warning, and it is has a bomb."
 Quoting: Hero Protagonist


Sounds like the next hijack plot by al-qaida.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1343060


Yeah, cause in case you haven't heard it was an inside job, done from the tomato plant conspiracy, in which TTPTB(The Tomato Plants That Be) engineered a program devised to make people take them "inside." And that is all my uncle will permit me to say on the matter.
 Quoting: Hero Protagonist


damned
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:31 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
The basic principle of what happens is it's moist warm air rising really fast in a spiral into cold dry air. Tornadoes don't blow, they suck air upwards and take all kinds of shit with it. Like entire towns at this point.
So let's say you were to have a very large tank of liquid nitrogen. Highly pressurized. Include some explosives and make that tank where it could be launched or remotely flown about 500 feet off the ground right in front of that thing and then detonate it. The air temperature at the bottom, where it's sucking all of that warmer air upwards, would drop to damn near nothing.
I've installed what they call "cold blast systems" in nightclubs. Usually just a 5 second blast of CO2 over the dance floor and the temperature drops 20 degrees instantly. It literally makes snow out of the existing moisture in the air on contact and it snows over the dance floor. It's really nice effect if you have never seen one in action.
That's what gave me this idea. Pressurized CO2 ain't nowhere near as cold as Nitrogen would be. So...BOOM! And you would be spitting a massive amount of ice cubes and cold air into it thus stopping the process.
Even if these things cost a million bucks to produce, it would be nowhere near the cost of the damage we're seeing now.
So tell me what's wrong with my logic here? That would have to work right?
 Quoting: XinTexas


The cost of predictability can be very high.

Ask Gordon Brown about the UK economy ;)
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:32 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Haven't they tried something similar by dropping it into the center of hurricanes?
Showme123

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05/24/2011 03:33 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I was thinking "anti vortex" type technology would be really cool to develop. If you think about surfaces that resist a vortex suction, like a dimpled, uneven surface. I know that tornados do not like forests that have trees over 80 feet tall, they diffuse the cyclone action. Maybe a technician from DYSON vacuums could reverse engineer the "anti vortex" technology.

Even a huge tank in the ground that sucks in the whole storm. Go DYSON!

afro

Last Edited by Showme123 on 05/24/2011 03:34 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
Haven't they tried something similar by dropping it into the center of hurricanes?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1329422


Similar. They were trying to cause a second eyewall to form so that it would collapse the first one and weaken the storm.

But then they found out that the eyewall replacement cycle was a natural process of hurricanes and stopped the experiments.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:35 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I think we take it from the top down. Shoot a air to air missile into the thunderhead and disrupt the system. It would have to be a strong missile or several missles detonated at once....
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I was thinking "anti vortex" type technology would be really cool to develop. If you think about surfaces that resist a vortex suction, like a dimpled, uneven surface. I know that tornados do not like forests that have trees over 80 feet tall, they diffuse the cyclone action. Maybe a technician from DYSON vacumms could reverse engineer the "anti vortex" technology.afro
 Quoting: Showme123


Honestly, i think it has more to do with the trees not allowing a stable vortex to form by interrupting airflow patterns or something. I read something about it about a year or so ago, but cant remember what.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2011 03:36 PM
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Re: Nevermind. I don't know why I even bothered.
I think we take it from the top down. Shoot a air to air missile into the thunderhead and disrupt the system. It would have to be a strong missile or several missles detonated at once....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1329125


There are always nukes.

But then there might be radioactive tornadoes flinging fallout over large areas, and that would be incredibly bad.





GLP