Solidarity Day with Cindy Sheehan, Monday August 15

I sympathize with this mother for the loss of her son, but the more I look at this it seems to be motivated more by a political agenda rather than a greiving mother.

Damned Right! We want Bush to account for what he´s done.

Thank you, LAS PLAGAS. Bush met with this woman two months after the death of her son. Her own husband and children proclaim that she has her own agenda.

"You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you’ll stop the terrorism."

This woman is clearly being used. When terrorists realize all they have to do is ambush a few U.S. soldiers or blow up a few trains/buses to get their way, look for an even larger increase in terrorism. Appeasement does not work--never has, never will.

You´re wrong Norseman. It´s Cindy´s estranged IN-LAWS that are bad mouthing her. Get your facts straight.

How to Silence Wingnuts about Cindy Sheehan

by STOP George

Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 13:44:03 PDT

The following is a series of blog posts that I made (along with the responses) at the Conservative Life blog.

The diary was about Ralph Nader´s intelligent response to Cindy Sheehan. You may see the diary entry and posts HERE.

---------------

SG:

To Ralph Nader:

Here! Here!

You speak for the majority of Americans who believe the Iraq war has not made us safer.

Thanks for publishing this letter, Conservative Life!

-------------

OP (other poster):

He may indeed may be the majority speaker for that section of the population (Americans who believe the

Iraq war has not made us safer), but that segment is a tiny minority of the population as a whole. The

rest of America thank President Bush and the men and women who have served to keep us free.

-------------

At that point, they were mine...

* STOP George´s diary :: ::
*

SG:

Sorry to burst your bubble:

Newsweek Poll

-------------

OP:

wooo.. a poll, with no citation or sample statistics. I feel humbled now...

NOT!

--------------

SG:

You do know how to search on "Google" don´t you?

Google Search

--------------

OP:

Why should I have to do your research, twit?

--------------

SG:

I just quoted and linked to a poll from Newsweek that shows that 64% of Americans think that the Iraq

war has not made us safer.

If you choose to stick your head in the sand, that´s your choice.

----------------

OP:

The lib´s quoting Newsweek! Laughing Laughing Hilarious!
Those are the scum bags that LIED about GrabAnArab Prison and pissing on the Koran at Club Gitmo! It´s

a yellow rag - even worse than the Enquirer!

What´s next, using the NY Slimes as a reference?

--------------------

SG:

It´s a scientifically sampled poll of AMERICANS. It is not an opinion piece. Sheesh!

Please feel free to show us another recent scientific poll (in the last couple of months) that shows us

that the majority of Americans think that the Iraq war HAS made us more safe.

------------------

OP:

Polls & surveys can be skewed any way the person or persons conducting them wish to.

-----------------

SG:

Then show me a recent "unskewed" version, please.

------------------

OP:

Princeton Survey Research Associates International (the third party doing the research) reported back

to me on this particular poll. Aparently only 15% of the people called actually completed the telephone

poll. Not a very statistically significant sample. Newsweek did not report THAT part of the statistics.

-----------------

SG:

Nice try. But the poll, regardless of what the response rate was, polled 1004 randomly selected

American adults. The margin of error is + or - 4%.

The "response rate" is irrelevant, since this is a RANDOM survey.

Again, show me a recent scientific poll (along with the response rate) that asks the same question but

produces a significantly different result.

----------------

OP:

You are an idiot. The responce rate is VERY important in a poll. If 1004 people are called and only 150

answer the questions it is a statistically meaningless poll because the sample size is too small for

the f score to be of any relevance.

As for research, you seem to not be able to do any so I went ahead and did your job. And even after I

did you still can´t recognize a red herring when given one.

---------------

SG:

1004 randomly selected Americans responded -- not just 150 as you have stated. That is why the margin

of error is + or - 4%.

---------------

OP:

It does not say 1004 responded, only that 1004 were interviewed. Big difference.

---------------

SG:

O.K. I´ll spell it out for you.

Go to any research firm and tell them you have a sample of 150 for a poll of this nature. Ask them what

the margin of error will be.

Hint: it will be significantly higher than + or - 4%.

---------------

OP:

No, jerk off, I´ll spell it out for you. They reported (in an email request) for this poll %15

completed the survey. If you want to believe those cooked numbers, go ahead.

--------------

OP:

SkiingKow,

Are you so dumb that you believe in the findings of polls?

The constant releasing of poll results are nothing but a sinister gimmick being used by such entities

as the news media and political organizations to influence and control the way we think, and to sway us

towards making the decisions that they want us to make.

---------------

SG:

O.K. I´ll try again (sigh).

According to your "email", the completion rate of 15% means that 6693 people were randomly called.

of those 6693, 1004 conducted the interview and responded to the questions asked.

If you want, why don´t you email them again and ask if the + or - 4% margin of error is attributed to a

sample of 1004 or 150.

My guess is that they will laugh at you.

-------------
-------------

POINT OF THIS DIARY: This Newsweek poll (along with others) means the DEATH for the wingnuts arguments that Cindy Sheehan represents the "fringe minority".

They cannot refute these polls which supports Cindy Sheehan.

They actually deleted my previous attempts to post these poll results.

This is their achilles heal!

As of posting this diary, I did not hear back from that guy who believes that only 150 people responded to that survey.

The last time I posted here, they hi-jacked my posts and the moderator put up out of context pictures in my own post!! (they even changed my avatar!! LOL!!!) (see here)

This diary will probably be toast soon, as was the other one I posted on.


BEHOLD! THE SILVER BULLET:

Display:

Permalink | 20 comments

Remember... (4.00 / 3)

With respect to Cindy Sheehan, wingnuts are the MINORITY.

by STOP George on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 13:47:58 PDT

with respect to the rest of america (none / 0)

wingnuts are always the minority. 30%-40% is a minority.

"Orthodoxy means not thinking- not having to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness." Syme from Orwell´s 1984

by jkennerl on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:22:04 PDT
[ Parent ]

Pearls before swine, SG. (4.00 / 2)

I appreciate your effort, but don´t you feel that it´s wasted on people who can´t think logically?

--
The neocons will not give us our country back. If we want it back, we´ll have to take it.
--Lila Garrett

by peacemonger on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 13:50:45 PDT

it is pointless (none / 0)

good retorts, stop george, but I agree it´s pointless. You know when I realized it?

When I read over at right-wing filthrag michnews.com that osama would be proud of cindy. How she´s disrespecting her own son, and the article just went on and on slandering her and basically painting her as a traitor.

I got all worked up, infurtiated, started a diary on it, then thought ´fuck it.´ Writing retorts doesn´t help. Ignoring them is the best way to go.

Political Cortex coming soon...
Yeah, I blog.

by georgia10 on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 13:57:03 PDT
[ Parent ]

My point for this diary... (4.00 / 3)

is that this Newsweek poll (along with others) means DEATH for their arguments that Cindy Sheehan represents the "fringe minority".

They cannot refute these polls which supports Cindy Sheehan.

They actually deleted my previous attempts to post these poll results.

This is their achilles heal!

by STOP George on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 13:57:44 PDT
[ Parent ]

True, (none / 0)

but Cindy would be just as important if the polls still supported this damned war.

--
The neocons will not give us our country back. If we want it back, we´ll have to take it.
--Lila Garrett

by peacemonger on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:13:41 PDT
[ Parent ]

I agree... (none / 1)

...but the wingnuts tactic now is to give the illusion that she is part of the minority. That is their cheif argument. To group her with "the fringe".

These polls overwhelmingly dispute that lie. It is the wingnuts that are part of the fringe -- and after seeing these polls, they damn well know it!

by STOP George on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:19:32 PDT
[ Parent ]

These wingnuts are so stupid (3.50 / 2)

They think God made the earth 600 years ago; humans (with our wobbly, imperfect knees) were created in the image of a perfect being.

There´s no way they can manage statistics 101. Of course, they quote polls when it suits them. Assholes

Wes Clark, Proud Democrat for President 2008

by Geronimo on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 13:52:01 PDT

yes, but this is the argument I use (none / 1)

To stop them dead when they start trying to rewrite reality.

I just say, "Well, there´s no arguing with you. You fundamentalists think the world was made 6,000 years ago and that dinosaurs and people roamed the earth together." I throw in something about Santa Claus and the Big Rock Candy Mountain for good measure. They immediately lose it and end up conceding my point. Usually. Sometimes they just storm off.

They really are like 10 year olds who want to believe in Santa Claus long after their friends have given up on it, you know?

by brainiacamor on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:40:58 PDT
[ Parent ]

polls are meaningless (none / 0)

Doesn´t matter which side you are on, all that a poll really shows is what the selected group of people stated.

It´s the same thing as believing the ad bs "Four out of Five Dentists prefer"...compared to what? If you ask five dentists "Which is better brand X toothpaste or not brushing at all"? What are they going to pick?

The way the people are selected can be skewed, the questions can be skewed and in general all polls are good for is starting conversation on a topic.

by psyche777 on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:03:51 PDT

We´ll see... (none / 1)

Something tells me we won´t be seeing ANY polls in the near future that shows that the majority of Americans believe that the Iraq war has made the world safer.

Keep in mind, the Newsweek poll is not the only one that gives these results.

by STOP George on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:11:33 PDT
[ Parent ]

Don´t blog with wingnuts (4.00 / 4)

Go out and talk with some ordinary people. There is a lot of buyers remorse about the last election that is beginning to happen. A lot of people worked up with fear and Republican propaganda last year are now asking how they could have been fooled so badly.

The wingnuts blogging are hiding in their basements because they know that opinion is moving. Leave them to their denial. The day is coming when they realize that they are irrelevant.

The revolution starts now--in your own back yard, in your own home town

by TarheelDem on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:04:34 PDT

After a lengthy e-mail correspondence yesterday (none / 1)

with a woman from one of the sites that is critical of Cindy Sheehan, I realized that there is absolutely no way to change their minds. She was perfectly pleasant, but every time I made a point she slid away from it and deflected the train of thought onto another idea. She also claimed to be a former Democrat who had voted for Clinton at one time-- maybe true, but I always take that claim with a grain of salt.

She gave me a link to some sites that purported to show a soldier hung in effigy, by people with whom Cindy Sheehan is allegedly "hanging out" (I believe it was actually an anti-war protest and of course I have no idea if Cindy Sheehan even knows these people), and all of the links were to right-wing sites, which she believes are 100% truthful.

So we broke off the conversation with the understanding that we were never going to agree. No matter what I said, there was an "answer." No matter what she said, I remained unconvinced. I don´t think it´s pointless to have the conversation, but for the true believers, it´s really just an exercise in defining your own ideas.

by gravie on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:05:58 PDT

She makes sense to me (none / 0)

I finally got off of my duff and bought "Don´t Think of an Elephant". Lakoff makes a big point that facts and figures aren´t really going to do much good in these arguments: if you tell them something that would break their worldview, they have to deflect.

It´s a survival technique: it´s much easier for her to assume you are wrong than to doubt her own beliefs.

That´s great that you could agree to disagree. I have a hard time with that. You have served the discourse well!

"what could possibly go wrong?"

by maskedand on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 15:27:07 PDT
[ Parent ]

To shut up a wingnut about Cindy, (none / 0)

just ask them how many of their kids are in Iraq, and how many have had children come home in a flag-covered coffin. That silences them because the answer is usually "none".

What happens when Bush takes Viagra? he gets taller. Robin Williams

by Demfem on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:06:34 PDT

Believe it or not... (none / 0)

They have answers for that.

But it really stings them when they are confronted with the fact that they are part of the minority.

by STOP George on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:13:32 PDT
[ Parent ]

to quote a great american: (none / 0)

"how far up your ass do these guys dicks have to be until you realize they are fucking you?!"

-Bill Hicks

It´s ok to be stupid if everybody else is.

by mkf on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:23:42 PDT

weirdness (4.00 / 3)

Ever notice how they try to disagree with a sort of pseudo-expert tone, like they know it all and everything they disagree with can just be dismissed out of hand. Then you engage them and the expertise and faux rationalism falls apart. I used to rumble with idiots like this all the time and invariably the pattern is repeated:

Idiot:
Me: That´s false for reason XYZ
Idiot:
Me: Your dismissal is illogical, here is why: . Also, X and Z have been ignored.
Idiot:

and so on....

Howard Dean has a posse

by Jett on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:26:31 PDT

I did this.... (4.00 / 2)

recently with a former friend who I went to college with. Actually the only wingnut that I know/knew well. Was a deadhead in school and a solid Dem until "9/11 changed everything" when he completely went off the deep end.

I didn´t know at first and when DSM first came out, I sent a link to some friends and included him in it. His response made me engage him (although I started by saying that I was very tempted to make a typical sarcastic comment) in how he thinks, why, where he is coming from, etc.

As I told him where I (and pretty much everyone else I know or associate with regularly) was coming from on 9/11, BushCo, Iraq, Veterans having benefits cut, lack or armor, you name it, it was always deflect, Clinton this, dismiss, you´re wrong and the PNAC is right (yes, he even defended them and the "new Pearl Harbor" statement).

After the first 5 emails or so, it became no real dialogue, ignore my points and questions and just start with the "moonbat, idiot, unamerica, move to France, Michael Moore...."

I tried to keep this up for the week, but after 3 days (and around 100 emails), I just told him that he was a total ass and he should just not reply to me anymore.

Couldn´t believe it. What a tool he turned out to be. And he is a pretty intelligent, well read guy too.

Set the gearshift for the high gear of your soul......

by clammyc on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:57:01 PDT
[ Parent ]

Here´s how to shut them up (none / 0)

Ask them "Have you had an immediate family member killed in this war?"

If they answer "no"

Tell them "You need to to STFU then".

by Chain on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 14:40:34 PDT

Permalink | 20 comments

Ask them "Have you had an immediate family member killed in this war?"

If they answer "no"

Tell them "You need to to STFU then".

This dumbass woman is described as a "peace activist" but her son evidently was smart enough to know that you don´t get peace by ignoring the need for military might. Freedom is not free and he volunteered, mind you, for this job, no one made him. Someone needs to cart her dumbass off the street, her son would be embarressed.

"Ask them "Have you had an immediate family member killed in this war?"

If they answer "no"

Tell them "You need to to STFU then"."

What do you tell them if they say "not in the war, but in London, England or New York City on September 11th, 2001"?

If you believe the official horse shit then tell them what you want....

The fight isn´t against arabs for their oil, its freedom against Muslims who are bent on killing everyone. Cindy Sheehan hasn´t grasped this basic fact.

HISTORY TEST

Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually happened!!!

Do you remember?

1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3.During the 1980´s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achilles Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to
rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill´s women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles
to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed
into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.
Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, I really don´t see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President´s security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone because of profiling.

Wul, you´re a

[link to www.whatreallyhappened.com]




August 13, 2005

YET MORE READER PHOTOS FROM CRAWFORD
Posted Aug 13, 2005 01:06 AM PST

Political Agenda!? You are God-damned right it is a political agenda.To get our people home,we should be willing to fire any Senator,Congressman,President, Vice President that stands in the way of the true will of the American people.Wake up and smell the bullshit!A political agenda sent our good people an this foolish hellride and by God we will bring them home with or witout the help of our alledged representatives.

Well said!

TTT

I have some questions for the bushtards:

Who determines who is an extremist?

How is this determination made?

How does one defend him/herself if said determination was made erroneously?