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Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

 
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Have had 2 mortgages on homes which were sold and "paid off". Of course, they were not actually "paid off" just added to the big debt clock in times SQUARE. Both were fanny/Freddy before the big drop. I saw it all getting ready to crash and got out of both houses just before it all went down.

Both were before I knew anything about 12 USC 411 or the scam of fractional reserve lending, promissory notes, federal reserve debt etc.
I currently have no mortgage.
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
[link to en.m.wikipedia.org]

Holy S|~|*t! Title 12 USC is the "trading with the enemy act"!! I never knew that till reading this thread!!

Why would banking be federally regulated as "trading with the enemy"??
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
2014 New Years bump!
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
...

Do they call it a usage fee.... tax??
They call it an income... tax.

The tax IS income for those who collect it.

Burton's legal Thesaurus:
CAPITALIZE--> Utilize for profit/manipulate/take advantage of.
Utilize for profit = Incorporate for income.

Through name capitalization, creating a trade/Business name from our name, we have been "incorporated" into the Corporation, and the the Corporation harvests our energy and labor in the form of fiat currency for their profit.

My understanding....
the term "usage fees", is also known as "interest", collected when the "Lender" turns homeowner's credit over to fiat currency, attaches usage fees (interest) then pretends to give Homeowner something valuable for a loan.
But they gave the Homeowner an illusion, not a loan.

They cannot attach 'usage fees' to homeowner's credit.
But they can attach usage fees to "their" fiat currency.

My understanding is...
they also have a hidden lien on "their" fiat currency, which in turn, places a lien on everything purchased with their fiat currency.


But regardless whether or not homeowner's credit is turned over to fiat currency, the value for both credit and fiat, comes from the same place--> Homeowner's energy and labor.

The retail/commercial Banks "sell" the homeowner fiat currency that has no value.
When they collect usage fees they attached to the negative value fiat, they collect fiat from homeowners Bank Account with *positive* value (fiat or cash, backed by homeowner's energy/labor)
 Quoting: Don ald


There are so many problems with your post. Read the damn thread and learn something because you are lost at sea without a rudder. Every single line of what you posted has a fallacy in it that has been disproven in court cases and flys in the face of law, reason and common sense.

It's not "income" for he Federal reserve nor the Fed Government. The Federal government gets unlimited credit issued from the Fed member banks, the Federal Government needs your ignorant ass to endorse that debt onto yourself and your estate so IT does not have to pay it back in goods and services at FACE VALUE. The use fee income tax simply discharges the INTEREST on the principle of the debt, it is not INCOME of anything but new debt dumped right back onto treasury accounts then cycled back onto endorsers of the debt via open endorsements on checks, loans and fractional reserve deposits.

Please stop spamming this thread with your misconceptions and debunked 40 year old title 26 bullshit. Read the thread, your arguments have been destroyed already.

Redemption from the Federal reserve debt peonage is written in black and white in 12 USC 411 and the results are proof of concept.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47330867
It is income tax, not taxed income.

The tax being collected IS income.
You added the word "usage" in front of income but say mine is fallace?
Disproven in court cases? Legal Courts?
I would not expect what I shared to be "approved" at a "legal" court, thats why folks must learn to ask the right questions, then ask retail commercial banks and other financial institutions 'directly'.

*Fiat currency printed out of thin air BEFORE working = *purchasing* power (acts like credit, they can print the fiat currency but cannot print it's value.

*Fiat currency employees/laborers obtains AFTER working =Buying power. (Buying power, backed by employees energy and labor).

We labor to back what they print and spend.
They use folks like a credit card.
There is no denying someone must work FIRST to 'create' a paycheck which they "cash in" for the fiat currency.
The fact that someone must work FIRST, indicates their energy and labor IS the value backing the fiat.The fact the Federal Government (or whoever) collects fiat currency AFTER employees work, also proves the fiat currency is backed by workers energy and labor.
It sounds like you are stuck on "legal law" and cannot "see" the natural law.

But that is my opinion.

I am here to learn, so I ask you to break down each line in my post you consider to have fallace, without adding words to terms such as "usage income tax"...

Make it easier to understand what you are conveying
Instead of saying each line has fallace, point out the fallace in each line.

The Fed gets "unlimited credit" because the employees and laborers are backing the Feds unlimited credit with their own energy and labor.

Did you know that homeowners are giving Fanny Mae a loan of credit?
This credit is backed by homeowner's energy and labor, just like the credit used to *purchase* homeowners house.

Banks such as Wells Faro are retail/commercial (Business banks collecting mortgages (dead pledges) from homeowners. What is homeowner pledging?
Homeowner is pledging their credit.
Where else do you think the credit for the Fed is coming from?
Do homeowners know they are pledging 15 to 30 years worth of credit to Fanny Mae, so Fanny Mae can have homeowners credit changed into fiat currency so Fanny Mae can invest it?

Fiat currency doesn't back itself, and is unlikely to get help from the printer.
 Quoting: Don ald


You back the fiat currency via your use of it and acceptance via direct or indirect ENDORSEMENT.

Since you claim you are here to lean, READ THE THREAD.

Look up "naked endorsement" look up "naked contract" (the back of any paycheck) clearly marked "for official use only"!!

Look up how any check is nothing more than an instrument for YOU the endorser to accept the existing Liability to pay the face value of the debt in goods and services.

The cases I posted about have all been addressed in the previous pages of this thread which you clearly have not even tried to read.

Do not come here with your lost horizons, cracking the code nonsense, it does not work and gets endorsers put in prison.

Redemption as written in 12 USC 411 does exactly what it supposed to do, redeems me from the Federal debt system of peonage while making it possible for me to continue to live in a home, have rights restored, control my own COURT OF RECORD, and end fractional reserve lies and debt.

Results are what I care about, nothing more or less. Read the thread.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47330867
Results? How many people have used this remedy? And didn't get bank accounts levy or property taken away?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
[link to www.dailypaul.com]

Rod Class has now received FOUR Administrative Rulings that prove what many of us have felt to be truth: What you think is government; what you think are legitimate Government Officials/Senators/Congressman/Policeman/Governors/Tax Collectors, etc. are nothing more than private contractors, extorting money from American Citizens and failing to pay off the public debt as they are instructed to do by the 1933 bankruptcy.

They are treating us as if we are paid government employees; enforcing their own internal rules-regulations-codes, and statutes on the average Citizen, as well as conveniently forgetting to send us our weekly/monthly government employment check.

I've been preaching this for the last year + with no avail on this forum. Perhaps now, people will begin to listen and take action.

In these radio shows, Rod explains his Administrative Rulings from the various Judges; explains the con, and shows you, where in their very own US Codes the above aforementioned information is spot on.

There are a few shows you need to listen to, and here are some bullet points of those shows:

1. All BAR attorneys are prohibited from representing John Q. Public; can only represent gov't officials and employees within their own agencies, their BAR Charter says so.

2. Any Judge that prohibits you from representing yourself or hiring a defense other than a BAR attorney, are in fact, committing a felony on the bench in violation of the Taft-Hartly Act (running a closed union shop) and the Smith Act (overthrow of Constitutional form of Gov't)

3. Anytime an BAR attorney represents someone in a case against you, you can now claim that person is incompetent; a ward of the state, with no standing to sue.

4. Any and all tax collectors, police officers, sheriffs dept's, DOT, tag agencies, BAR attorneys, Judges, Highway Patrol, supposed elected officials, are nothing more than private contractors, who can now be brought up on fraud charges for impersonating a public official while receiving federal funding.

5. Any and all home, vehicle, credit card loans are supposed to be discharged through the Treasury window, in compliance with the 1933 bankruptcy laws. These scumbags are double dipping and never discharging the debt like they are supposed to. They are embezzling the funds and pocketing them for themselves.

6. Every person sitting in prison today was railroading by a BAR attorney who's first allegiance is to the State; who had no lawful authority to represent them; who worked in concert with the State to perpetrate a fraud upon it's victims.

Click on the link to read more
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
...


There are so many problems with your post. Read the damn thread and learn something because you are lost at sea without a rudder. Every single line of what you posted has a fallacy in it that has been disproven in court cases and flys in the face of law, reason and common sense.

It's not "income" for he Federal reserve nor the Fed Government. The Federal government gets unlimited credit issued from the Fed member banks, the Federal Government needs your ignorant ass to endorse that debt onto yourself and your estate so IT does not have to pay it back in goods and services at FACE VALUE. The use fee income tax simply discharges the INTEREST on the principle of the debt, it is not INCOME of anything but new debt dumped right back onto treasury accounts then cycled back onto endorsers of the debt via open endorsements on checks, loans and fractional reserve deposits.

Please stop spamming this thread with your misconceptions and debunked 40 year old title 26 bullshit. Read the thread, your arguments have been destroyed already.

Redemption from the Federal reserve debt peonage is written in black and white in 12 USC 411 and the results are proof of concept.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47330867
It is income tax, not taxed income.

The tax being collected IS income.
You added the word "usage" in front of income but say mine is fallace?
Disproven in court cases? Legal Courts?
I would not expect what I shared to be "approved" at a "legal" court, thats why folks must learn to ask the right questions, then ask retail commercial banks and other financial institutions 'directly'.

*Fiat currency printed out of thin air BEFORE working = *purchasing* power (acts like credit, they can print the fiat currency but cannot print it's value.

*Fiat currency employees/laborers obtains AFTER working =Buying power. (Buying power, backed by employees energy and labor).

We labor to back what they print and spend.
They use folks like a credit card.
There is no denying someone must work FIRST to 'create' a paycheck which they "cash in" for the fiat currency.
The fact that someone must work FIRST, indicates their energy and labor IS the value backing the fiat.The fact the Federal Government (or whoever) collects fiat currency AFTER employees work, also proves the fiat currency is backed by workers energy and labor.
It sounds like you are stuck on "legal law" and cannot "see" the natural law.

But that is my opinion.

I am here to learn, so I ask you to break down each line in my post you consider to have fallace, without adding words to terms such as "usage income tax"...

Make it easier to understand what you are conveying
Instead of saying each line has fallace, point out the fallace in each line.

The Fed gets "unlimited credit" because the employees and laborers are backing the Feds unlimited credit with their own energy and labor.

Did you know that homeowners are giving Fanny Mae a loan of credit?
This credit is backed by homeowner's energy and labor, just like the credit used to *purchase* homeowners house.

Banks such as Wells Faro are retail/commercial (Business banks collecting mortgages (dead pledges) from homeowners. What is homeowner pledging?
Homeowner is pledging their credit.
Where else do you think the credit for the Fed is coming from?
Do homeowners know they are pledging 15 to 30 years worth of credit to Fanny Mae, so Fanny Mae can have homeowners credit changed into fiat currency so Fanny Mae can invest it?

Fiat currency doesn't back itself, and is unlikely to get help from the printer.
 Quoting: Don ald


You back the fiat currency via your use of it and acceptance via direct or indirect ENDORSEMENT.

Since you claim you are here to lean, READ THE THREAD.

Look up "naked endorsement" look up "naked contract" (the back of any paycheck) clearly marked "for official use only"!!

Look up how any check is nothing more than an instrument for YOU the endorser to accept the existing Liability to pay the face value of the debt in goods and services.

The cases I posted about have all been addressed in the previous pages of this thread which you clearly have not even tried to read.

Do not come here with your lost horizons, cracking the code nonsense, it does not work and gets endorsers put in prison.

Redemption as written in 12 USC 411 does exactly what it supposed to do, redeems me from the Federal debt system of peonage while making it possible for me to continue to live in a home, have rights restored, control my own COURT OF RECORD, and end fractional reserve lies and debt.

Results are what I care about, nothing more or less. Read the thread.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47330867
Results? How many people have used this remedy? And didn't get bank accounts levy or property taken away?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 169265


you should read the thread. NOT 1 court case has been filed, not 1 frivolous filing claim has been made by the IRS, not one account levied.

In fact, the exact opposite has happened, the IRS has actually stopped actions against people once their demands per 12 USC 411.

For sanitized documents you can go to [link to www.savingtosuitorsclub.net]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
bumphf
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Still one of the best threads ever on the subject of freedom from government intrusion into our lives and wresting control from the hands of the pirates.
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02/09/2014 08:38 PM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Bump!!
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Still one of the best threads ever on the subject of freedom from government intrusion into our lives and wresting control from the hands of the pirates.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47330867

Has this thread helped you personally?
Anonymous Coward
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bump
talkstory

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bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2720400

Thanks for the bump. rken
talkstory
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Okay can anyone share real stories now that they're using this remedy?
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2014 11:46 AM
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Still one of the best threads ever on the subject of freedom from government intrusion into our lives and wresting control from the hands of the pirates.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47330867

Has this thread helped you personally?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2720400


Yes it has. A full year of demand for redemption in lawful money just ended for a friend of mine. The tax return is filed and the return after interest will be nearly 10 thousand dollars!

Those are real world results. Of course the check from the I "R" S will be demanded redeemed in lawful money per 12 USC 411.

Some are enjoying over 7 years of returns and or exemption (their choice) from entanglements of the IR.S.

Saving to the suitors forum has plenty of people posting their lawful money events and results.

Congratulations to all!!!!
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Thank you for the resply.
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
bumphf For the true remedy .. May it reach all who need it with speed ...
ku commando
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bump
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
bumpyodayeahsure
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bump
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Bump for April 15th tax return deadline! And thank you IRS for a fat return check this year, I will be sure and demand it be redeemed in lawful money per 12 USC 411 again this year.

I know it's not allot, but it's a few thousand dollars you will not get and a little more power taken from the money changers.
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bump
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Bump for April 15th tax return deadline! And thank you IRS for a fat return check this year, I will be sure and demand it be redeemed in lawful money per 12 USC 411 again this year.

I know it's not allot, but it's a few thousand dollars you will not get and a little more power taken from the money changers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47330867


How many returns have you received?
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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
TIS THE SEASON

bump
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bump
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Bump for the month
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cool videos
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Did anyone get audited yet?
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Bump
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bump
Jknoph

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Re: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
The Goal (for the 99%) is to DISAMBIGUATE the Three Income Taxes, Not Abolish Them

The group that would benefit most from abolishing either of the three income taxes is the 1%, and if they have to pay any income tax, they’d prefer the currency-regulating income tax established in Springer v. U.S. (1880), which is the income tax most of us are dealing with today (though we tend not to recognize the Springer origins of the tax).


The 1% favor the “Springer income tax” because in recent decades they've succeeded in destroying the progressivity of the tax (which is now around 40% on the top income bracket, but used to be as high as 94%), substantially reduced the rates on capital gains (to about 15%-20%, below half the top bracket rate), and created key loopholes that entirely exempt some unearned income.


In this Doc, I’d like to experiment with labeling the 3 income taxes by the Supreme Court cases which Constitutionalized the tax. Hopefully, this will make the distinction between the three income taxes easier to understand, rather than trying to explain them from discussions about the 16th Amendment, which is always how the 1% want to frame the discussion, i.e., that the 16th Amendment is the cause of the problem and we’d all be better off without it.


As I often warn so-called tax protesters, abolishing the 16th Amendment would make matters much worse, and would do nothing except except exempt taxation of landlords, lenders, employers and speculators.



THE “SPRINGER INCOME TAX”


I often call this the “currency-regulating income tax” or the “legal tender privilege income tax,” but the tax is basically derived from England’s 1799 income tax, which was used by the Crown to support the Bank of England as it came off the coin standard.


The U.S. version was first levied 1862-1872. William Springer, an attorney, challenged the tax on his 1865 law practice earnings (along with some interest income) in Springer v. U.S. (1880), but lost. He rested his case on the argument that the income tax on his wages was a direct tax on his personal property, and needed to be apportioned under the Direct Tax Clauses (which meant Congress couldn't collect the tax; only levy it against the states).


The Supreme Court did not explain themselves very well, but essentially held that since the target of the tax was on Springer’s use of currencies not issued and controlled exclusively by the peoples’ Congress (the U.S. “sovereign”), the tax was ruled to be indirect on Springer’s wages.


In effect, because Springer received his wages in currencies not under Congress’s direct and exclusive control, his "wages as personal property" (which could only be levied under the Direct Tax Clauses) was converted into “wage income” (which could easily be levied under the Indirect Tax Clause).


The word “income” was not yet in the Constitution when Springer lost his case, but nevertheless the Court in 1880 considered the tax on Springer’s income to be an indirect “income duty” or “income excise tax” under Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1 (the Indirect or Uniformity Clause).

[link to en.wikipedia.org]



THE “POLLOCK INCOME TAX”


As I just mentioned, one of the problems with the Springer case was that in addition to “wage income” he also earned some interest income, so in addition to money "incoming" to Springer from national banks and their (legal tender) notes, money was also coming from Springer’s savings, his personal property.


Some pro-Georgist Congressmen accentuated the difference between the two income taxes in the 1894 income tax by adding a tax on landlord rental income, where land was the personal property of the landlord, from which the rental income was derived. The Supreme Court struck down this 1894 income tax in Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan (1895), and because of this, I will refer to taxes on income derived from property sources as “Pollock income taxes.”


I sometimes refer to this income tax as the “property income tax” or “tax on property income” or “tax on income derived from property,” but since Pollock is the case that really highlighted this kind of income tax, I think it’s most appropriate to use that case name.


Incidentally, as many of you know, it was the ruling in Pollock that led to the need for the 16th Amendment, though it's hard to tell by simply reading the Amendment.


Unfortunately, the 16th Amendment was worded in such a way that makes it appear to have authorized all income taxes in the U.S., when really all it did was eliminate the idea that rental or interest income might be a direct tax on land, labor or capital.


Another common misconception advanced about the 16th Amendment is that it simply blocks us from considering the source of the income, and that all income essentially comes from the same source.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]



THE “STONE TRACY INCOME TAX”


To further prove the point that the 16th Amendment was not the origin of all three U.S. income taxes, in 1909 Congress levied an income tax on corporate privilege, where the corporation’s net income was used to measure the benefit enjoyed while exercising the state-granted privilege.


In Flint v. Stone Tracy Co. (1911) the corporate officers, directors and shareholders challenged the tax and made the same argument that Springer tried to make, i.e., that any tax on the corporation was a direct tax on property, and therefore a violation of the Direct Tax Clauses, which required Congress to apportion such tax liability among the states.


I sometimes refer to this as the “corporate privilege income tax” or “tax on income derived from corporation privilege.”


The Supreme Court disagreed, and essentially used the same argument used by the Springer Court, which is that since the tax is targeting the privilege only, and using income only to measure the benefit under the privilege, the tax is indirect on property, not a direct tax on property ownership, like for example, taxing one’s house, car, bicycle, etc.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]



ONE FINAL DISTINCTION


The final point I’d like to make in this Doc is that there are only two classes of income taxes, (1) those derived from property sources, and (2) those not derived from property (i.e., government-granted privilege).


This is an important distinction to keep in mind because with "taxes on income not derived from property sources," the income is simply used to measure the benefit. In other words, the income is really not the prime target, but only used to give the government some reasonable way to fairly tax the (corporate or legal tender) privilege holder (or not tax the privilege holder if there was a loss).


Anyway, the Springer and Stone Tracy income taxes are in the class of income taxes that are NOT derived from the property sources of land, labor or capital, but the Pollock income tax IS in that class.



So, for example, even if a tax patriot were to totally avoid the corporate and legal tender privileges, income tax liability could still arise under the "Pollock income tax" if there was evidence that the individual was acting like a landlord, lender, employer or speculator. These human actors create, respectively, the following kinds of income: rental income, interest income, profits from hiring labor, capital or land gains.





GLP