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**************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????

 
Bishop of Lugdunum
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**************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Irenaeus and Papias both denied that Jesus died on a cross. He claims that they both believed that Jesus lived to be an old man and died a peaceful death in bed. He uses this in his argument to prove the crucifixion is a myth and that Jesus in turn is purely mythological,

Saint Irenaeus (Greek: Εἰρηναῖος), (2nd century AD – c. 202) was Bishop of Lugdunum in Gaul, then a part of the Roman Empire (now Lyons, France). He was an early church father and apologist, and his writings were formative in the early development of Christian theology. He was a hearer of Polycarp,[1] who in turn was a disciple of John the Evangelist.
Irenaeus' best-known book, Adversus Haereses or Against Heresies (c. 180) is a detailed attack on Gnosticism, which was then a serious threat to the Church, and especially on the system of the Gnostic Valentinus.[2] As one of the first great Christian theologians, he emphasized the traditional elements in the Church, especially the episcopate, Scripture, and tradition.[2] Irenaeus wrote that the only way for Christians to retain unity was to humbly accept one doctrinal authority—episcopal councils.[3] Against the Gnostics, who said that they possessed a secret oral tradition from Jesus himself, Irenaeus maintained that the bishops in different cities are known as far back as the Apostles — and none of them were Gnostics — and that the bishops provided the only safe guide to the interpretation of Scripture.[4] His writings, with those of Clement and Ignatius, are taken to hint at papal primacy.[2] Irenaeus is the earliest witness to recognition of the canonical character of all four gospels.[5]
Irenaeus is recognized as a saint by the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod,[6] and the Episcopal Church (United States). His feast day is on June 28 in the Roman Catholic calendar of saints,


[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Since both Papais and Irenaeus believed that Jesus lived to an old age and died at home in bed, the Gospels we have today could not possibly be the same as what they knew or referred to.




Father Papias
falls into what would by the Orthodox be regarded as "some" error,
in disbelieving and denying the early crucifixion and resurrection
of Jesus Christ -- evidently not then a belief; for he assures us,
on the authority of what "the disciples of the Lord used to say in
the old days," that Jesus Christ lived to be an old man; and so
evidently died in peace in the bosom of his family, as
explicitly written by Bishop Irenaeus.


[link to www.mountainman.com.au]



Here's the quote from Harpur on Irenaeus from his book on pages 157. :

The good bishop claims that Jesus was not crucified at the age of thirty-three but passed through every age and lived on to be an "oldish man," a claim that he says is testified to by Church "elders" and was bequeathed to them directly from John.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Yh, he did not die on the cross, he was healed in the cave and went to india then all over the world.


[link to tjresearch.info]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
So the new testament story is not the truth
Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
of course its fake. the jews wrote that bullshit to govern and control the masses.
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
pearls before swine
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Irenaeus
 Quoting: Bishop of Lugdunum 1196215


That reminds me of a Nuclear acquiring Terrorist State.... chuckle
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Back in the 80's I was listening(on audio tape) to a friends oracle given by a deep trance channeler named Babbit, from Massachusetts.
Simplified version here, Jesus wasn't on the cross, he had a brother( word used in the sense of having a spiritual affinity with each other) his name was Jesup.
This was supposedly agreed upon before their incarnation, and at the time of the crucifixion Jesup's cells were breaking down due to haven been on earth, and having had incarnated from the outer dimensions.
Then it said that yes, Jesus was involved with many woman, but basically Mary M was his love, and Jesup was with (married?) to Judy of the Essenes, Joseph of Arimathea's daughter.
Supposedly they, including Jesus even indulged in the so-called "wackey weed" of the day,(pot) and were very passionate in relation to the opposite sex.
it then went on about Jesus's travels and life, which I've forgotten!

??????
Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
of course its fake. the jews wrote that bullshit to govern and control the masses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196267













bump




I THINK WE ARE ON TO SOMETHING HERE




THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS SAY


JESUS WAS NOT CRUCIFIED


HE LIVED TILL OLD AGE.


WTF


SOME ONE MADE UP QUITE A STORY
mathetes

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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Irenaeus and Papias both denied that Jesus died on a cross. He claims

Here's the quote from Harpur on Irenaeus from his book on pages 157. :


 Quoting: Bishop of Lugdunum 1196215

OP I guess you mean an author makers these claims


Please show where in Irenaeus and Papias writings these claims are?


Because they never make these claims...prove me wrong by a citation in their works,not some goofy writer making things up
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
I THINK WE ARE ON TO SOMETHING HERE




THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS SAY


JESUS WAS NOT CRUCIFIED


HE LIVED TILL OLD AGE.


WTF

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196954


He died and was resurrected. Don´t you know the Gospels a bit?

Yes, there is more to His life than just the Gospels. He fulfilled all the biblical Prophecies.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
So the new testament story is not the truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196215

Jesus dies on the Cross and rose after the third day.

He lives.

satan wants the world to be confused and deny the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose of this you ask.
satan will unleash the anitchrist into this world soon and the more people satan can have living in the dark mentally, the more souls satan can take to hell with him.
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
So the new testament story is not the truth

Jesus died on the Cross and rose after the third day.

He lives.

satan wants the world to be confused and deny the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose of this you ask.
satan will unleash the anitchrist into this world soon and the more people satan can have living in the dark mentally, the more souls satan can take to hell with him.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196960
Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
So the new testament story is not the truth

Jesus died on the Cross and rose from the "dead" after the third day.

He lives.

satan wants the world to be confused and deny the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose of this you ask.
satan will unleash the anitchrist into this world soon and the more people satan can have living in the dark mentally, the more souls satan can take to hell with him.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196960
Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
So the new testament story is not the truth

Jesus died on the Cross and rose from the "dead" after the third day.

He lives.

satan wants the world to be confused and deny the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose of this you ask.
satan will unleash the anitchrist into this world soon and the more people satan can have living in the dark mentally, the more souls satan can take to hell with him.



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196960

The more people deny Jesus Christ is the Son of God


the less people will believe who the Antichrist really is.

satan wants the world to follow his counterfit, the antichrist and take the Mark. Those who take the Mark, will be lost forever and will go with satan into the Lake of Fire.
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Irenaeus and Papias both denied that Jesus died on a cross. He claims

Here's the quote from Harpur on Irenaeus from his book on pages 157. :



OP I guess you mean an author makers these claims


Please show where in Irenaeus and Papias writings these claims are?


Because they never make these claims...prove me wrong by a citation in their works,not some goofy writer making things up
 Quoting: mathetes




Here you go



this wonderful passage in Irenaeus


So, likewise, he was an old man for old men … Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while he still fulfilled the office of a teacher … those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. … Some of them [i.e., those who teach this, PS], moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2:22:4-6)


Irenaeus, insisted that his tradition that Jesus didn't die until he was in his fifties, was the result of accurate and direct apostolic instruction


Irenaeus is one of the main sources of how the early church thought, isn't it scary? Jesus lived to be fifty? This early witness to gospel authorship clearly wasn't talking about any gospel that YOU have ever read. It makes you wonder whether anything else the church fathers said was similarly way out in left field.

Irenaeus insisted his doctrine that Jesus lived into his fifties, not dying in his thirties, came by direct apostolic succession. That's an example of how the early Fathers "carefully preserved" their oral traditions
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Irenaeus and Papias both denied that Jesus died on a cross. He claims

Here's the quote from Harpur on Irenaeus from his book on pages 157. :



OP I guess you mean an author makers these claims


Please show where in Irenaeus and Papias writings these claims are?


Because they never make these claims...prove me wrong by a citation in their works,not some goofy writer making things up




Here you go



this wonderful passage in Irenaeus


So, likewise, he was an old man for old men … Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while he still fulfilled the office of a teacher … those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. … Some of them [i.e., those who teach this, PS], moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2:22:4-6)


Irenaeus, insisted that his tradition that Jesus didn't die until he was in his fifties, was the result of accurate and direct apostolic instruction


Irenaeus is one of the main sources of how the early church thought, isn't it scary? Jesus lived to be fifty? This early witness to gospel authorship clearly wasn't talking about any gospel that YOU have ever read. It makes you wonder whether anything else the church fathers said was similarly way out in left field.

Irenaeus insisted his doctrine that Jesus lived into his fifties, not dying in his thirties, came by direct apostolic succession. That's an example of how the early Fathers "carefully preserved" their oral traditions
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196954

satan is the father of lies and satan has those all throughout history who work for satan to lie for him as well.

Dont believe everything. satan loves to deceive humans.
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Irenaeus and Papias both denied that Jesus died on a cross. He claims

Here's the quote from Harpur on Irenaeus from his book on pages 157. :



OP I guess you mean an author makers these claims


Please show where in Irenaeus and Papias writings these claims are?


Because they never make these claims...prove me wrong by a citation in their works,not some goofy writer making things up




Here you go



this wonderful passage in Irenaeus


So, likewise, he was an old man for old men … Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while he still fulfilled the office of a teacher … those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. … Some of them [i.e., those who teach this, PS], moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2:22:4-6)


Irenaeus, insisted that his tradition that Jesus didn't die until he was in his fifties, was the result of accurate and direct apostolic instruction


Irenaeus is one of the main sources of how the early church thought, isn't it scary? Jesus lived to be fifty? This early witness to gospel authorship clearly wasn't talking about any gospel that YOU have ever read. It makes you wonder whether anything else the church fathers said was similarly way out in left field.

Irenaeus insisted his doctrine that Jesus lived into his fifties, not dying in his thirties, came by direct apostolic succession. That's an example of how the early Fathers "carefully preserved" their oral traditions

satan is the father of lies and satan has those all throughout history who work for satan to lie for him as well.

Dont believe everything. satan loves to deceive humans.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196960




You are right about that


this "new testament" is the greatest fiction

deception he has come up with yet


The early church fathers have a completely different story


wtf ?
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
What a false presentation of Irenaues by the OP. It is clear he has not read Irenaeus: Irenaeus talks about the death of Christ often. The OP is a moron who doesn't get how out of text eisigesis.
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Irenaeus and Papias both denied that Jesus died on a cross. He claims

Here's the quote from Harpur on Irenaeus from his book on pages 157. :



OP I guess you mean an author makers these claims


Please show where in Irenaeus and Papias writings these claims are?


Because they never make these claims...prove me wrong by a citation in their works,not some goofy writer making things up




Here you go



this wonderful passage in Irenaeus


So, likewise, he was an old man for old men … Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while he still fulfilled the office of a teacher … those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information. … Some of them [i.e., those who teach this, PS], moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2:22:4-6)


Irenaeus, insisted that his tradition that Jesus didn't die until he was in his fifties, was the result of accurate and direct apostolic instruction


Irenaeus is one of the main sources of how the early church thought, isn't it scary? Jesus lived to be fifty? This early witness to gospel authorship clearly wasn't talking about any gospel that YOU have ever read. It makes you wonder whether anything else the church fathers said was similarly way out in left field.

Irenaeus insisted his doctrine that Jesus lived into his fifties, not dying in his thirties, came by direct apostolic succession. That's an example of how the early Fathers "carefully preserved" their oral traditions

satan is the father of lies and satan has those all throughout history who work for satan to lie for him as well.

Dont believe everything. satan loves to deceive humans.




You are right about that


this "new testament" is the greatest fiction

deception he has come up with yet


The early church fathers have a completely different story

wtf ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196954

Watch yourself; lest you be deceived.

There are trying times at hand; coming into this world at a very fast rate now.

satan has many who haved worked for him throughout the ages. satan wants one thing...

Your soul.
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
And again David says: They looked upon me: they parted my garments among them, and upon any vesture they cast lots.For at His crucifixion the soldiers parted His garments as they were wont; and the garments they parted by tearing; but for the vesture, because it was woven from the top and was not sewn, they cast lots, that to whomsoever it should fall he should take it.

Irenaeus, Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching 80

FAIL
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
So the new testament story is not the truth

Jesus died on the Cross and rose from the "dead" after the third day.

He lives.


satan wants the world to be confused and deny the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose of this you ask.
satan will unleash the anitchrist into this world soon and the more people satan can have living in the dark mentally, the more souls satan can take to hell with him.



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196960

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Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
this "new testament" is the greatest fiction

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196954


No, it´s just not the whole story yet this does not make it less true.
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Back in the 80's I was listening(on audio tape) to a friends oracle given by a deep trance channeler named Babbit, from Massachusetts.
Simplified version here, Jesus wasn't on the cross, he had a brother( word used in the sense of having a spiritual affinity with each other) his name was Jesup.
This was supposedly agreed upon before their incarnation, and at the time of the crucifixion Jesup's cells were breaking down due to haven been on earth, and having had incarnated from the outer dimensions.
Then it said that yes, Jesus was involved with many woman, but basically Mary M was his love, and Jesup was with (married?) to Judy of the Essenes, Joseph of Arimathea's daughter.
Supposedly they, including Jesus even indulged in the so-called "wackey weed" of the day,(pot) and were very passionate in relation to the opposite sex.
it then went on about Jesus's travels and life, which I've forgotten!

??????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1169288



This is complete crap bud!


satan wants the world to be confused and deny the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose of this you ask.
satan will unleash the anitchrist into this world soon and the more people satan can have living in the dark mentally, the more souls satan can take to hell with him.


This is exactly why one should not delve into these things as they mislead.....NOT INFORM. These things are the work of lies from the great liar himself.
UndercoverAlien

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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Saint Irenaeus should get the facts straight. Jesus WAS crucified, but survived and escaped to Indian Kashmir, to join his old Essene masters. The Gnosticism has NOTHING to do with the "Christian/Catholic church" made up by the Council of Nicea. The Gnosticism is 100% based in the ancient school of mysteries of Atlantis, Egypt and Babylon.
Jesus doctrine was built with parts of Hinduism, Buddhism, ancient Judaism and Esoteric occultist mysteries.
He lived, aged and died on India and is buried in Rozabal. There are ancient documents reporting his presence and there's a footprint of his wounded feet in the tomb. Every single Indian, knows that.
"Do or do not. There is no try." (Yoda)
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Saint Irenaeus should get the facts straight. Jesus WAS crucified, but survived and escaped to Indian Kashmir, to join his old Essene masters. The Gnosticism has NOTHING to do with the "Christian/Catholic church" made up by the Council of Nicea. The Gnosticism is 100% based in the ancient school of mysteries of Atlantis, Egypt and Babylon.
Jesus doctrine was built with parts of Hinduism, Buddhism, ancient Judaism and Esoteric occultist mysteries.
He lived, aged and died on India and is buried in Rozabal. There are ancient documents reporting his presence and there's a footprint of his wounded feet in the tomb. Every single Indian, knows that.
 Quoting: UndercoverAlien


Another idiot.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Saint Irenaeus should get the facts straight. Jesus WAS crucified, but survived and escaped to Indian Kashmir, to join his old Essene masters. The Gnosticism has NOTHING to do with the "Christian/Catholic church" made up by the Council of Nicea. The Gnosticism is 100% based in the ancient school of mysteries of Atlantis, Egypt and Babylon.
Jesus doctrine was built with parts of Hinduism, Buddhism, ancient Judaism and Esoteric occultist mysteries.
He lived, aged and died on India and is buried in Rozabal. There are ancient documents reporting his presence and there's a footprint of his wounded feet in the tomb. Every single Indian, knows that.


Another idiot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196930


How do I know?

First, Irenaeus was against Gnostics.
Second, Indians don't believe the crap he is telling. "Every single Indian"? Tell that to the Malabars.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Introduction
St. Irenaeus (c. 125-191 CE) was Bishop of Lyons in the first half of the second century CE, and a very early Father of the Church.

He was around only a century or so after the supposed Jesus Christ, and wrote a number of works aimed at forging unity amongst early Christians, who couldn't agree on such trivial matters as how many Gods there were; who formed the world; what the world was made from; whether Jesus was actually a real person; who the apostles were; whether God could be derived from words or forumlae; what happened after death; and that sort of thing.

Irenaeus is notable in that he is the first known author to refer to the four New Testament gospels by their current names. He was also one of the very first Christians to argue that Jesus Christ was son of God, and a real historical figure.


Did Irenaeus say that Jesus was fifty?
Quite by accident, I came across the apologetic page How Old is Jesus According to St. Irenaeus? This discusses, and claims to refute, claims that Irenaeus said Jesus was around fifty years old when he died. Intrigued, I checked out Irenaeus Against Heresies for myself.

Chapter 22 is headed as follows:

"Chapter XXII.-The Thirty Aeons are Not Typified by the Fact that Christ Was Baptized in His Thirtieth Year: He Did Not Suffer in the Twelfth Month After His Baptism, But Was More Than Fifty Years Old When He Died."

In it, Irenaeus argued forcefully - from the apostlistic tradition of John - that Jesus taught for many years more after his baptism than the twelve months attributed in the Gospels. He attacks any alternative view as a "heresy". He says (with my emphasis):

"...but they mentioned a period near His real age, whether they had truly ascertained this out of the entry in the public register, or simply made a conjecture from what they observed that He was above forty years old, and that He certainly was not one of only thirty years of age. For it is altogether unreasonable to suppose that they were mistaken by twenty years, when they wished to prove Him younger than the times of Abraham. For what they saw, that they also expressed; and He whom they beheld was not a mere phantasm, but an actual being of flesh and blood. He did not then wont much of being fifty years old..."
Wingedlion

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12/16/2010 08:21 AM
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
So the new testament story is not the truth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1196215



either that or your source is lying, I think the overall consenses is that the gospel writers got it right, and Jesus died on the cross. It is a central theme and to deny it is to deny historical accounts of the eyewitnesses who were actually there. If they had lied or deceived then thousands of martyrs would never have laid down their life for a lie, and the farther away from an event you get, the farther away from the truth you get. This so called quote was written 200 years after the fact...could you give valid arguments of the life of John Adams and refute eyewitness accounts of his life...he died over 200 years ago.
"Glory is what happens when faith overcomes adversity."
Anonymous Coward
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Israel
12/18/2010 12:43 PM
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
So the new testament story is not the truth



either that or your source is lying, I think the overall consenses is that the gospel writers got it right, and Jesus died on the cross. It is a central theme and to deny it is to deny historical accounts of the eyewitnesses who were actually there. If they had lied or deceived then thousands of martyrs would never have laid down their life for a lie, and the farther away from an event you get, the farther away from the truth you get. This so called quote was written 200 years after the fact...could you give valid arguments of the life of John Adams and refute eyewitness accounts of his life...he died over 200 years ago.
 Quoting: Wingedlion






The source is one of the earliest Church fathers, he is by Catholics considered a saint.


After further looking at his writings, it is clear Irenaeus did know of the crucifixion , be Irenaeus

claims Jesus lived to a old age, unlike the story in the new testament.


Irenaeus was the first to give names to the Gospels.





As far as what you said :

the farther away from the truth you get. This so called quote was written 200 years after the fact...



Irenaeus is of the earliest teachers known of the new testament. If you cant trust him who of the later church leaders can you believe ?

The earliest manuscripts appeared in his day.


THIS ALL SUPPORTS THE THEORY THAT THE NEW TESTAMENT IS

ROMAN FICTION

So the new testament story is not the truth
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2010 12:48 PM
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
Why argue? It can never be known for sure what happened.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
12/18/2010 12:49 PM
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Re: **************Jesus was not crucified wrote Saint Irenaeus, he Died a old man ---the Gospels we have are fictional ?????????????????????????????
jesus fake his death report

yes, i heard that in a bar last night





GLP