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Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know

 
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 02:52 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.


Is that the entire defense to Israel barring items from entering into Gaza?
 Quoting: Epic_Fool


Israel bars items that could be used to manufacture weapons to be used by Hamas and Islamic Jihad against it. If you don't like the blockade, talk to Hamas about dropping their insane STATED goal to destroy Israel and turn it into a killing field..
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 02:53 PM
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bump

Great thread GOG!
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 02:53 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know

Opinion
Christian Science Monitor


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 690458

hmm

...and?
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 02:55 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
bump

Great thread GOG!
 Quoting: ~GAIA~


Thanks pal!

It needs to be said, and repeated, and repeated.

Hamas (and Turkey) CANNOT be allowed to gain a PR victory from this PLANNED provocation..
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 02:57 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.


Is that the entire defense to Israel barring items from entering into Gaza?


Israel bars items that could be used to manufacture weapons to be used by Hamas and Islamic Jihad against it. If you don't like the blockade, talk to Hamas about dropping their insane STATED goal to destroy Israel and turn it into a killing field..
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat

Better put a Link to that STATED goal of Hamas Son, or you are a liar.
Anubis

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06/04/2010 03:00 PM

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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Israel bars items that could be used to manufacture weapons to be used by Hamas and Islamic Jihad against it. If you don't like the blockade, talk to Hamas about dropping their insane STATED goal to destroy Israel and turn it into a killing field..
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat


what about Israel pulling back to 1967 borders and stopping the continual push of settlements?
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 03:23 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.


Is that the entire defense to Israel barring items from entering into Gaza?


Israel bars items that could be used to manufacture weapons to be used by Hamas and Islamic Jihad against it. If you don't like the blockade, talk to Hamas about dropping their insane STATED goal to destroy Israel and turn it into a killing field..

Better put a Link to that STATED goal of Hamas Son, or you are a liar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 992162


OK, flotillatard - here y'go!

Hamas Principles
The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."


Link to full document
[link to www.mideastweb.org]

Jackass - you don't even know what you are supporting..

j1mmy
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 03:41 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Hamas was created by Mossad. If you're going to have an enemy, best to be in charge of it.

[link to www.wariscrime.com]
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 03:47 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Hamas was created by Mossad. If you're going to have an enemy, best to be in charge of it.

[link to www.wariscrime.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 968278

If you think Israel is running Hamas, you're an even bigger jackass than I thought..
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 04:24 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
CAN WE PLEASE HAVE SOME COMMON SENSE HERE FOR A MINUTE????

First of all, NEITHER side is 100% right and BOTH sides
(Palestine AND Israel) have serious flaws.

Palestine is ruled by Hamas and is reknowned for wanting
Israel wiped off the planet. Regardless of their reasons why, that cannot and must not happen. Yes, the conditions their citizens live in is desperate, but violence (eg,...rocket launches) solves nothing.

Israel is ruled by Benjamin Netanyahu, who, in my opinion,
is a loose cannon and that's about as complimentary as I get about him and his cohorts. On the one hand, Israel has a perfect right to protect his citizens from harm's way
but, on the other hand, he has no right to blockade off a whole section of the country and try to build on land that,
by treaty, is Palestinian territory.

Could the aid ships have docked at an Israeli port and let
Israel transport the stuff into Gaza? SURE! But if you think for one moment that even half of it would have gotten to Gaza, you're kidding yourself. SO MUCH of the aid that was sent is, apparently, not permitted to go into Gaza...including paper and chocolate? Last time I checked,
paper or chocolate made for very poor weaponry.

SO, what's the solution? Not an easy one, that's for sure...but whatever solution is chosen, it CANNOT involve rubbing the other guy out!! Too many innocents...children,
women, and honest to goodness citizens who may not even agree with the Gaza blockade themselves! Same on the other side. Not everyone in the Gaza strip is Hamas!

One idea is to get some international arbitrator to work out a plan where materials are allowed into Gaza and strictly supervise it.
The only other solution is to kick both regimes to the curb...get rid of Netanyahu and Hamas and, assuming there are some fairminded folks left on either side, (here's hoping there are!), get some kind of fair government in there.

Regardless of what solution is found, if there be any (BIG IF THERE!), wiping one side or another off the globe is lunacy in its purest state and says more about those wanting to wipe people out than it says about the recipients of such treatment.

Sorry for the long post....that's just what I think.
IscopeU

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06/04/2010 05:09 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Let me react on the facts here.

Fact 1. Hamas was democratically chosen, u know, by election.


Well then, it was pretty stupid of Gazans to elect an organization that was planning to lob endless rockets over the Israeli border, and then use them as human shields..

Wasn't it?


The flotillatards were used as cannon fodder by Hamas also - useful idiots...
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat


You have said in this thread, in more then 6 reactions. less then i type in one post.

You can call me a lot of things, tard is not one of them.

I like to think of tards as people that need to copy paste their opinion and lack the ability to speak more then two sentences.

That said,

Hamas has been voted to power for a reason. The same reason Fatah was in power. Freedom and land for the Palestinians. And with Palestinians i mean the people that occupied the land of Palestine when the British left. These include all religions and ethnicities.
And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the maps and figure out that there is almost no Palestine left. Israel has taken it all, far more then was originally given to them.
The Israeli border you talk about, is not a border at all. The attacks on Jewish settlements almost all occur in Palestine land. Because that is what a settlement is, it is a Jewish village only for jews on Palestine land. Not bought, not bargained for, but taken or stolen is a better word.
There are Israeli roads throughout the west bank, completely dividing all the land. All with checkpoints, and all inside Palestine.
[link to justwars.files.wordpress.com] West bank
[link to www.poica.org] Gaza
Israel is not even supposed to be there in the first place.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. There will be no peace between Israel and Palestine until all the checkpoints are gone, the land is given back and the settlement let non-jews in. Maybe then, maybe then will the Palestine be able to forget all the shit that is done to them. But that's never gonna happen, is it?

So don't give me your shit about lobbing rockets over the borders. Rockets and attacks are almost always done in settlements or inside Palestine areas. Talk about ignored facts, there is one staring you in the face.

I look forward to your one sentence reply that will make you look even more stupid then you already portrait yourself in this thread. I hope you sleep well at night.
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“Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.” (-Sumerian clay tablet, 2800 BCE)
IscopeU

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06/04/2010 05:20 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Twist the truth all you want, you fucking commie rat bastard.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 989893


truth = truth.

And it usually requires some thinking and a little bit of effort to figure it out. Usually copy-pasting an opinion is not the way to find it. Neither is calling me fucking commie rat bastard.

The only thing i did was adding information that you can look up, but that the media won't give to you. At least, not over in America. I don't blame you for only knowing half of the story, because that is all you hear.

It is ridiculous however to claim that you have the whole truth because you obviously have not. And only 10 seconds of googling will prove that point. Or do you even lack the mental capacity to google?
[link to video.godlikeproductions.com] The weird video corner.

“Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.” (-Sumerian clay tablet, 2800 BCE)
IscopeU

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06/04/2010 05:27 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Plastic and Nitrous Oxide make one of the best rocket propellants known.
 Quoting: Evil Twin


*scribbles notes*

*demonic laugh*
[link to video.godlikeproductions.com] The weird video corner.

“Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.” (-Sumerian clay tablet, 2800 BCE)
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 05:38 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Once, they have shown a video of a father seemingly trying to protect his young child from being shot by IDF

I remember at the time when i saw the video i felt an incredible amount of rage towards Israel.

And recently, i have seen pretty convincing facts that it was staged. I have seen that video (if i come by the link again ill post it) after i have seen one of the flotilla attack video.

Now.... i would not be surprise at all that if in fact some innocent "activist" got killed in the process that they were indeed killed by those who are crying foul at this very moment.

Obviously this was all planned out by whoever wants to stop the blockade.

More aid and maybe televise all the aids that goes in gaza to show that they do get all they need to survive.

Cause right now they push that they arent getting close to enough.

I would also like to be convinced that they are not getting slowly killed.

I also respect that some items may not be accepted, a list of the items would be great to have also.
Anubis

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06/04/2010 05:39 PM

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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
[link to www.globalresearch.ca]

Hamas was created by Mossad
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 05:44 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat

In 1946, who was the Israeli government defending themselves against? Wait, there wasn't an Israeli government nor Israeli nation at all in 1946. Which means in 1946 it was Palestine who had two choices: try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop.

As you've said, there is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to. It would appear in 2010 Palestine still hasn't learned to shrug its shoulders.


If you think Israel is running Hamas, you're an even bigger jackass than I thought..
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat

Anyone who expects Palestine to submit must not be a reasonable and fair-minded person. It's difficult to take such people seriously.
sandpiper

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06/04/2010 05:50 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Hamas was created by Mossad. If you're going to have an enemy, best to be in charge of it.

[link to www.wariscrime.com]

If you think Israel is running Hamas, you're an even bigger jackass than I thought..
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat

Iran is funding Hamas, You are supporting Iran? Terrorist? Hamas is internationally know as terrorist. Grizzled Old Goat, I thank GOD for your words of truth. There is so much delusion all over the world, but then that does show up at this time, just like the bible said it would, and has been for some time.
If you break my wings, I will just find a cloud and learn to fly again. The Lord will catch you when you fall or teach you to fly! May the footprints I leave lead you to BELIEVE.
IscopeU

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06/04/2010 06:16 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Once, they have shown a video of a father seemingly trying to protect his young child from being shot by IDF

I remember at the time when i saw the video i felt an incredible amount of rage towards Israel.

And recently, i have seen pretty convincing facts that it was staged. I have seen that video (if i come by the link again ill post it) after i have seen one of the flotilla attack video.

Now.... i would not be surprise at all that if in fact some innocent "activist" got killed in the process that they were indeed killed by those who are crying foul at this very moment.

Obviously this was all planned out by whoever wants to stop the blockade.

More aid and maybe televise all the aids that goes in gaza to show that they do get all they need to survive.

Cause right now they push that they arent getting close to enough.

I would also like to be convinced that they are not getting slowly killed.

I also respect that some items may not be accepted, a list of the items would be great to have also.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 728329


There is enough reasonably unbiased material on the net to form a thought out opinion about this whole conflict. You can't base your entire opinion on one staged video alone. I'm not saying you are, but i wanted to point this obvious fact out.

You are probably right that this was provoked in some kind of way to end the blockade. Still, that doesn't take away from the fact that Israel acted in an insane way to this matter. If it was provoked then they are extremely easy to provoke then and act extremely violently.
And this was against Turkey ships. Just think what such an insane government would do when they get attacked by Palestinians. It is out of proportion in a schizophrenic kind of way. There is more then enough proof that they do act out of proportion and that innocent people in Gaza are heavily mistreated. As if for Israel there are no 'innocent people in Gaza', this also goes for many on this board by the way.
The UN says that only 25% of the total need for aid is provided. I got that figure from a Dutch news source and i don't have the link.

I'm not the one to convince you Palestinians aren't slowly killed though because i 'think' they are.

Here is a list of prohibited and permitted items:
[link to gisha.org]
[link to video.godlikeproductions.com] The weird video corner.

“Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.” (-Sumerian clay tablet, 2800 BCE)
9teen.47™

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06/04/2010 06:18 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
:flo26: BUMP
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate [woman].
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobacco is worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 06:19 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
gog!
long time no see!
hows life on the prairies?
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 06:20 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Hamas was created by Mossad. If you're going to have an enemy, best to be in charge of it.

[link to www.wariscrime.com]

If you think Israel is running Hamas, you're an even bigger jackass than I thought..

Iran is funding Hamas, You are supporting Iran? Terrorist? Hamas is internationally know as terrorist. Grizzled Old Goat, I thank GOD for your words of truth. There is so much delusion all over the world, but then that does show up at this time, just like the bible said it would, and has been for some time.
 Quoting: sandpiper


My pleasure Sir..
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 06:21 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
gog!
long time no see!
hows life on the prairies?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 991956


It's a little flat..
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 06:22 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
[link to www.globalresearch.ca]

Hamas was created by Mossad
 Quoting: Anubis

globalresearch.ca?

rofl
IscopeU

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06/04/2010 06:23 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Ah i found out that medicine is on the permitted list. That is great and i stand corrected. I believe i said it was prohibited.
[link to video.godlikeproductions.com] The weird video corner.

“Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.” (-Sumerian clay tablet, 2800 BCE)
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

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06/04/2010 06:24 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Let me react on the facts here.

Fact 1. Hamas was democratically chosen, u know, by election.


Well then, it was pretty stupid of Gazans to elect an organization that was planning to lob endless rockets over the Israeli border, and then use them as human shields..

Wasn't it?


The flotillatards were used as cannon fodder by Hamas also - useful idiots...


You have said in this thread, in more then 6 reactions. less then i type in one post.

You can call me a lot of things, tard is not one of them.


 Quoting: IscopeU


I take it back - you are a verbosetard..

Tard
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 06:24 PM
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"It's a little flat."

never mind it can still be an uphill battle sometimes.
Sandi_T

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06/04/2010 06:33 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them.

Oh noes, they terrified people. They swore to destroy the OCCUPYING REGIME that has destroyed their homes and their way of life. An OCCUPYING REGIME that has killed, raped, stoned, wounded, and in many other ways harmed and harassed them.

Gosh, it's awful surprising that people would lash back at an ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING REGIME.

Actually, let's face it, what's surprising is that they have survived this long at all against the Israelis.


Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute.

Oh, surely, if the allies of the ILLEGAL OCCUPYING REGIME all agree that the Palestinian FREEDOM FIGHTERS are TERRORISTS, then it's beyond dispute that they ARE terrorists! What could be more obvious!

Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.

How about door number 3. Stop raping, killing, kicking people out of their homes, stealing from them, and otherwise committing atrocities and genocides against them?!

Oh no, of course, THAT couldn't POSSIBLY be a choice. We'll limit an unlimited number of options to the two dumbest ones. The two that most fit the warped ideology of genocide and war that Israel and Amerika both love so much and profit from so extensively.


Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.

Oh, yes. The poor, downtrodden Israelis, with their nukes, their phosphorus bombs, their fighter jets, their state-of-the-art military weaponry.

Oh, boo hoo. They MUST prevent anyone from delivering humanitarian aide to the concentration camp. Because OH NOES, they SO fear for their very LIVES!

Yes, of course, they must prevent the terrible horrifying bottle rockets from hitting their tanks and their fighter jets.

And they MUST, naturally, be allowed to murder and assault anyone they wish to in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Because... oh, they are just trying to PROTECT themselves from those oh-so-terrifying home made rockets.


Fact 5: Israel repeatedly, and expressly, made clear to those who organized the effort to break the embargo that it would willingly take all of the humanitarian aid that was on their boats and transfer it to Gaza, without delay. All that Israel wanted was to be able to ensure that materials were, in fact, humanitarian aid, rather than the sorts of materials used for launching attacks that are supplied to Hamas by the Iranians and others. The organizers of the flotilla refused because, of course, getting humanitarian aid to Gaza was not what their gambit was really about.

Send me all your money. I promise, I will send it to Israel. Without delay. No, it's true. I really will.

Oh, the fact that I fired on the UN trucks that were trying to render medical assistance? IGNORE THAT! It doesn't matter.

I really WILL give all your money to Israel, to help the poor people wounded by the MASSIVE, TERRIFYING BOMBS OF THE HORRIFYING HAMAS!

You have no reason whatsoever to believe me. Trust me, I'm your FRIEND!


Fact 6: Israel regularly provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and volunteering to get the humanitarian aid from the ships to Gaza was consistent with Israeli policy all along.

Prove it. I've seen much proving otherwise, and nothing proving this.

I've seen proof of the Israeli army attacking UN vehicles after allowing them to enter Gaza. I've seen proof of them turning all kinds of aid back. Seen no proof of it being rendered.


And Fact 7, which is now coming to light several days after the initial and predictable barrage of criticism of Israel: Those on at least one of the ships planned all along to attack Israelis when they sought to enforce the embargo, and indeed, their attack on the Israelis was brutal.
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat


Yeah, brutal. Versus the guy shot four times, point blank in the head, and another time in the chest.

BUT NO MATTER!

After all, he was on a boat IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS, and was attacked by a hostile force.

But we MUST, perforce, to have grievous and serious tears over the ATTACKING ARMY.

Who are our friends, and who we can trust. Honest.

What's a few ILLEGAL attacks in International waters between friends, huh??

No more requests in the "Strangest things" thread please. :hf:

Past Lives requests thread: Thread: That Which Once Was: Past Lives
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Hamas was created by Mossad. If you're going to have an enemy, best to be in charge of it.

[link to www.wariscrime.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 968278


AMEN!!!!!
Grizzled Old Goat  (OP)

User ID: 972348
Canada
06/04/2010 06:43 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Oh noes, they terrified people. They swore to destroy the OCCUPYING REGIME that has destroyed their homes and their way of life. An OCCUPYING REGIME that has killed, raped, stoned, wounded, and in many other ways harmed and harassed them.

Gosh, it's awful surprising that people would lash back at an ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING REGIME.

Actually, let's face it, what's surprising is that they have survived this long at all against the Israelis.


 Quoting: Sandi_T

blink

Er - the occupation of Gaza ended in 2006. Since that time, Hamas has fired over 10,000 rockets and mortar bombs over the border.

I would expect that if you're going to be such a blowhard - you might try studyin' up on the region, since you obviously know NOTHING about it..

Fuckin' airhead..
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 989762
United States
06/04/2010 06:49 PM
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Re: Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know
Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten or ignored facts

By Nadav Tamir Nadav Tamir – Thu Jun 3, 4:55 pm ET
[link to news.yahoo.com]


Boston – In the torrent of rage and confusion generated by the loss of life when the Israeli Navy enforced the embargo on the Gaza Strip this week, there has been a regrettable overlooking of certain fundamental facts. As is so frequently the case, these facts have gotten buried in the rubble of political rhetoric. In order to prevent this incident from having a deleterious effect on the peace process going forward, the following must be understood:

Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them.

Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute.

Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.

Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.

Fact 5: Israel repeatedly, and expressly, made clear to those who organized the effort to break the embargo that it would willingly take all of the humanitarian aid that was on their boats and transfer it to Gaza, without delay. All that Israel wanted was to be able to ensure that materials were, in fact, humanitarian aid, rather than the sorts of materials used for launching attacks that are supplied to Hamas by the Iranians and others. The organizers of the flotilla refused because, of course, getting humanitarian aid to Gaza was not what their gambit was really about.

Fact 6: Israel regularly provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and volunteering to get the humanitarian aid from the ships to Gaza was consistent with Israeli policy all along.

And Fact 7, which is now coming to light several days after the initial and predictable barrage of criticism of Israel: Those on at least one of the ships planned all along to attack Israelis when they sought to enforce the embargo, and indeed, their attack on the Israelis was brutal.


This fact has been starkly captured in video widely circulating around the Internet, showing the vicious beatings initiated by those on board one of the ships against Israelis, who for their part had been instructed to refrain from using any force if at all possible. Indeed, in Israel the military is being criticized for failing to adequately prepare its naval personnel to anticipate the attacks on them from the boats, and for being too passive, and too trusting, in its approach to the flotilla.

As for the evidence that certain individuals of those responsible for orchestrating this tragedy are linked to Al Qaeda and other representatives of the worst forces on the planet, the next days will likely yield more information.

But the larger issue is this: Has the desire to blame Israel in certain quarters reached such an irrational frenzy that the fundamental facts of any issue relating to the Middle East conflict will reliably be overlooked? Are those who are committed to a fair-minded and reasonable analysis of that conflict prepared to insist that others who like nothing more than jumping to conclusions stop, pause, think, and consider the actual evidence?

There will always be those who don’t let facts to get in the way of their biases. But fair-minded people examine the evidence before forming conclusions, especially when emotions run high. Israel – and the cause of peace in the Middle East – is counting on them to do just that.
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat

I see you are thoroughly brainwashed by Israeli propaganda


all of the above is bsflag





GLP