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07:48 PM
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When the air runs out...
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[quote:IfYouInsist:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDExMjEyXzUyNkE5RUVG] [quote:Sol-tari:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDExMTA0X0EwNTRCNEMy] [quote:IfYouInsist:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDEwOTM3X0E0REY4MDY2] [quote:Sol-tari:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDEwODQ5X0RFNDUxOTE=] [quote:IfYouInsist:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDEwNzkzXzUzQzM4MUZG] [quote:Sol-tari:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDEwNjY2X0E1RjMwMzg4] [quote:IfYouInsist:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDEwNjM5XzQ4M0JFQTVD] [quote:Sol-tari:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDEwNjEwXzNEMTMwN0E=] [quote:IfYouInsist:MV80NjUyNjY2Xzg1MDEwNDgyXzNGOTkzRTcx] State or non-state actor, someone aimed to change the world and they did. All the same old talk about peace and love, and still this is how people effect change in the world, and they give the excuse that if these things aren't done then everything would still be the same. If the method for causing change remains the same, then nothing has changed or will change at the only level that matters. Hardly worth sacrificing for, is it? [/quote] What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Wouldn't be sacrificing for them... But I've met some good people I'd consider it :Chuckle: [/quote] You need to distinguish between 'good' and 'useful.' A person you and likely I would refer to as good is actually useful, just as the people we would refer to as evil is harmful. But goodness is a matter of birth--ie, nobility. It's a ruling class designation that applies only to itself. Insisting on people being useful as them being good not only glorifies slavery and wrt self-sacrifice an early death, but reinforces slavery, since if a person isn't good, they are evil, and so you end up punishing them for not being useful. All in service of those who are good by birth, and never cease to be so no matter what they do. Again: why bother? All the arguments have been made. [/quote] I guess our debate breaks into a simple split. Those you speak of are not in alignment, therefore all are. I disagree. And I don't paint everything with the same brush due to the actions of select few [/quote] It is too rare in group behavior for these things not to be reinforced. Supporting humanity per se supports these dynamics. You speak of human goodness as if human goodness were the point. It isn't, not from the standpoint of culture, society, moral systems, or interpersonal relationships. [/quote] Yes, a number of humans merely follow programming - eventually most think about it. But much in the way hundreds of years ago it was the morale thing to burn the witch and cheer, or kill and abduct numbers of a neighbour tribe, ideas around good and bad change. And that's the first time I've said anything of goodness during this exchange. If the leaders are teaching bad maths, blame the leaders. Don't yell at the kids because their math is bad. [/quote] All these things still happen; often, you don't even need to call them different things, as many feel compelled to do. Still rarer than the societies or groups which don't do these things are those that do whose members reflect upon them and find themselves to have been mistaken. Children go down with their parents, because parents own their children. Just because somebody's got to be the bad guy in order to be the good guy doesn't mean that anyone actually will. The job of the centurions is filled, with piles of applications still waiting to be read. As is the job of Caesar. As is the job of Pilate. As is the job of the mob preparing to shout 'crucify him.' No one wants the single job that is actually necessary here. If you say that this is because people are selfish, well, they are about to be taught a lesson for it that history indicates quite clearly they aren't built to learn. [/quote] :Chuckle: If people such as those your describe did not exist, those practices would be much more common. But at certain times, humanity does reflect. Parents own their children? Mate, they don't own me. Can't speak for your relationship, or how you'd consider your children. And just look around the board mate, or the world. Plenty step up to the position, or martyr themselves in the cause of thru various ways [/quote] These things stopped happening in the areas they did because tastes changed and new victims were found. The name changes, but the general outline stays the same. As for parents and children, I don't know if you've got a Parent-Teacher Association meeting where you live, but I've heard from the teachers how the interactions go, and it is certainly more on the parents' side than the teachers that children fail. And after the parents, it is usually the community they belong to and that family's relative place in it. This is how societies work, for better or for worse. As for martyrs, we weren't talking about martyrs in a general sense. There are many martyrs for causes that aren't even important. Given the apparent gravity of the situation, more than a martyr is called for here, and I'm telling you why the soil isn't right for that kind of flower. [/quote]
Original Message
Footage from an Egyptian ICU.
This is the moment the oxygen supplies ran out.
I guess, for those wanting footage from inside hospitals...
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