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Free Will vs. Predestination (Bible Believers)
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[quote:ToyTV:MV8xODcyMTU4XzMxMjMxODYwX0U1Njg5ODBG] [quote:Mr_Electric:MV8xODcyMTU4XzMxMjMxNjU4X0NBMDA2RUY0] The Sovereignty of God (Read Romans 9 carefully) John 6:44 No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him and I will raise him up the last day. The word draw translated in the original Greek is “drag.” God totally chooses us. Romans 3 Shows biblical proof that we are dead corpses-no dead person could want or choose God. Ephesians 2:11 (Saved by Grace) And you He hath quickened who were dead in trespass and sins. The word quickened translated in the original Greek is “given life.” Verse 2 tells us clearly how dead and sinful we are till He gives us life. Verse 5 also tells us how dead we are in sin. Ephesians 2:8&9 The word Grace translated is the divine influence upon the heart and it’s reflection in the life. In reading these verses very carefully, we can see that if we choose to be saved it then becomes a work and this is contrary to what the bible is teaching here. Verse 10 – ordained: translated means fit up in advance. Philippians 2:13 Makes it clear: For it is God which worked in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. John 11:11 (Lazarus) The Lord told the disciples that He would wake Lazarus up. I personally doubt that if Lazarus had the choice, which it is clear that he did not, that he would have never chose to come back to this Earth. Know What You Believe and Why When we study the bible we always take it literally with a deeper spiritual meaning spiritually. This portion of scripture is very meaningful in this area. Luke 7:13-15 The Lord raised the widow’s son from the dead. Notice He had compassion on her. She never even asked Him. Christ chooses, we take no part – our flesh wants to think we did. Conclusion – only the Lord can raise us from the dead spiritually. All the power, honor, and glory belong to Him. Ephesians 1:4, 5, 11 Greek translation: Adoption is to place. Predestination is to limit in advance. I Peter 2:21 Follow in Christ’s footsteps, not men. Our service to the Lord is what is in our hearts. He knows our capacity. I Thessalonians 2:4 Trust in the Lord and the entire word of God only. People’s opinion can confuse us. The word is the final authority. If we have really lined ourselves up under the authority of the Lord, His word becomes the whole root of our faith. The people that teach or want to suffocate us are going to die eventually. People are temporal, God is eternal (Isaiah 51:12). I Corinthians 2:4-5 (Enticing words) The Gospel can be sugar-coated with lots of enticing words. II Peter 3:18 (Growing) Greek translations: Grace: The divine influence upon the heart and its reflection in life. Knowledge: Understanding and awareness of the truth of the Lord. Psalm 49:35 Total surrender and a good cure for pride – He is in total control Scripture References Elect: Isaiah 42:1, 45:4, 65:9 & 22 Matthew 24:24 & 31 Mark 13:22 & 27 Luke 18:7 Romans 8:33 Colossians 3:12 I Timothy 5:21 Titus 1:1 I Peter 1:2, 2:1 II John 1:13 Elected: I Peter5:13 Election: Romans 9:11, 11:15, 7:28 Elect’s: Matthew 24:23 Mark 13:20 II Timothy 2:10 Predestinate: Romans 8:29-30 Predestinated: Ephesians 1:5 & 11 Ordained: Habakkuk 1:12 Matthew 3:4 John 15:16 Acts 13:48 Jeremiah 1:12 Romans 13:1 I Corinthians 2:7 Chosen: Matthew 20:16, 22:14 Mark 13:20 John 6:70, 13:18, 15:16 & 19 II Thessalonians 2:13 II Timothy 2:4 I Peter 2:4 & 9 This study can be and is totally backed up by scripture. The Holy Spirit is the teacher; the bible is its own interpreter. [/quote] I intend to study this out...but as of right now, this moment...I kind of reject Paul. I have plenty of reasons to do so, and most of the scripture you posted is Paul. So, it doesn't carry too much weight for me right now. [/quote]
Original Message
I am curious about believers views of free will vs predestination as a salvation issue. Were some chosen and others not prior to creation?
I have always been a free will believer. But toight I got into a debate with a predestination believer.
I am curious as to others insight on the matter.
Do you believe saved people have always been saved from the beginning? Or is it a choice?
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